2014 Offseason Plans Thread Pt2

[TheRangerDude]

He owned up after his name came out in documents, its not like he was an honest injun here

Sure he was… he was just smart about it. You keep your mouth shut about something until you know everything that they have against you. He just listened to his lawyers… nothing wrong with not incriminating yourself… thats why we have an amendment for it.

 

[TheRangerDude]

Truth is, nobody knows anything for sure, and thats Cruz's fault

I'm skeptical and you're not, leave it at that

Yeah, but those numbers are the truth too. And by the numbers and what we can verify as facts… it almost appears that using PEDs actually had the opposite effect on Cruz.

 

[jta4437]

Also Cruz has been worth about 3.1 WAR a season on average over his last 5 years, those were his PEAK years, he's in his regression years, therefor there's no way Cruz should make anything close to 15 million a year, as thats about all he was worth in his PEAK years

Plus his defense and baserunning are getting MUCH worse in recent seasons, meaning he's pretty much totally reliant on his bat, which is problematic as he's a high power, middling average, low walks guy and may only get worse as his bat slows down even more

 

[WastinSomeTime]

If Tanaka does go to the Yankees the guy better be on his game or he will regret being in that town. For some people it is not a good fit. Ask Kenny Rogers.

 

[jta4437]

Yeah, but those numbers are the truth too. And by the numbers and what we can verify as facts… it almost appears that using PEDs actually had the opposite effect on Cruz.

if you take him at his word, which I don't

 

[RevSader]

Yeah, I tend to agree with this as well. At the end of the day there is really no preventing PED use in these times. It's really just a matter of who gets caught or not. I also think its stupid how magnified it gets in baseball when if any other professional sports actually enforced their PED policies, you would have scandals way bigger than we have ever seen in the MLB.

I say just let them do it but be honest about it and then to appease all the historians… just create a new area in the hall for "enhanced players"

There were substances that used to be allowed that were later called banned substances. I don't like the idea of some arbitrary definition deciding whether or not we respect certain players. Andro was legal in baseball for the longest time and then they ban it and the people who still used it are cheaters. That's silly to me.

 

[darrylgann]

Angels Sign Raul Ibanez: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

 

[jta4437]

He broke a dumb fucking rule...

Maybe so, but a rule nonetheless

Honestly I could care less about the PEDs, I base most of this on the numbers only, the PEDs only play a small factor in it all, as I know steroids cause the body to break down faster over the long hall, thats my main concern in regards to Cruz as he's now 33 and heading into regression years

If he wasn't already showing signs, then its less of an issue, but he wants to be paid like the player he was not the player he is now

 

[TheRangerDude]

Yeah, but I was thinking since he took the suspension and not do what ARod did forced JDs hand and he had to get another outfielder which had another year on his contract. JD would have signed Choo to replace Murphy and Choice would have spelled Cruz if the suspension were this year. Just a thought, Dude.

And a very legitimate thought too. Had Cruz not been suspended there wouldn't have been a real need for Rios… so great point.

That being said, I think the Rangers would have wanted him to take the suspension regardless. I mean say the Rangers go out and win the WS if Cruz doesn't take the suspension and controversy that follows after it is found out that he did. It wouldn't be good for Cruz or the organization. So, perhaps it was written on the wall the moment he admitted guilt.

 

[jta4437]

There were substances that used to be allowed that were later called banned substances. I don't like the idea of some arbitrary definition deciding whether or not we respect certain players. Andro was legal in baseball for the longest time and then they ban it and the people who still used it are cheaters. That's silly to me.

To continue to use something after its banned is just stupid,

Before its banned, I agree, can't really say anything to those players

Barry Bonds and McGwire are prime examples to me, what they didn't wasn't against the rules of baseball

 

[TheRangerDude]

There were substances that used to be allowed that were later called banned substances. I don't like the idea of some arbitrary definition deciding whether or not we respect certain players. Andro was legal in baseball for the longest time and then they ban it and the people who still used it are cheaters. That's silly to me.

Yeah, thats a great point too… it is very circumstantial

 

[RevSader]

To continue to use something after its banned is just stupid,

Before its banned, I agree, can't really say anything to those players

Barry Bonds and McGwire are prime examples to me, what they didn't wasn't against the rules of baseball

As much as I dislike the Patriots I thought people made a big deal out of what they did being so bad. They did the same thing every other NFL team did for years. Then all of a sudden the NFL decides to ban the practice. Makes no damn sense to me. Get any competitive advantage you can for all I care.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Angels Sign Raul Ibanez: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

At only $2.75 mill with incentives that could take it to $5 mill. So if he stinks the place up it will not hurt them as much to bench him.

 

[jta4437]

As much as I dislike the Patriots I thought people made a big deal out of what they did being so bad. They did the same thing every other NFL team did for years. Then all of a sudden the NFL decides to ban the practice. Makes no damn sense to me. Get any competitive advantage you can for all I care.

I agree, but if the league you play in decides against that competitive advantage, then you have to play along, if you choose not to, then you risk the punishment

I do disagree with how many of those punished never actually failed a drug test, leaves the whole process open to heresay to me

 

[ESPN Refugee]

 

[TheRangerDude]

if you take him at his word, which I don't

What do you mean? His numbers have nothing to do with what he says… they are just that, his numbers.

Also, the only time we can factually say he did any sort of PEDs is when he was caught. The possibility exists that he did at other times but to say or think he did is just pure speculation.

With that being said, again, he had a career low year following when we can verify he did PEDs. Then, he followed that year up with a huge rebound when he was under the most scrutiny. There is something to be said about that and there is no speculation with in those statements.

 

[Al Falfa]

That is going to be one ugly ass contract 3 or 4 years down the road.

 

[ESPN Refugee]

That is going to be one ugly ass contract 3 or 4 years down the road.

I personally think as long as he gives 5 good and productive years we'll be fine.

 

[jta4437]

What do you mean? His numbers have nothing to do with what he says… they are just that, his numbers.

Also, the only time we can factually say he did any sort of PEDs is when he was caught. The possibility exists that he did at other times but say or think he did is just pure speculation.

With that being said, again, he had a career low year following when we can verify he did PEDs. Then, he followed that year up with a huge rebound when he was under the most scrutiny. There is something to be said about that and there is no speculation with in those statements.

You are speculating that he didn't use, and I'm speculating that the possibility exists that he did previously to when he said he did, thats all... its all speculation, you choose to believe him I choose to be skeptical, that's all

His numbers are all over the place, that doesn't help you cause at all actually, not to mention the trouble staying healthy, especially with all the muscle injuries (hamstrings)

Once again, you choose to take him at his word, I choose to be skeptical b/c he's given me no reason to not do that

 

[jta4437]

That is going to be one ugly ass contract 3 or 4 years down the road.

I disagree, his game lends itself to soft regression not dramatic falloff