2014 Offseason Plans Thread Pt2

[ESPN Refugee]

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Part of what JD said struck me at the news conference:

"We use the term 'good fit' a lot when we look at players to add, but in this case, it was the perfect fit," Daniels said. "His skill set, personality, his personal goals line up with ours and what our club needed.

PERSONAL GOALS-you have to wonder sitting out the 50 games at the end of the season resonates in those two words. Cruz looked out for Cruz so that he could be ready for the following season at the expense of the Rangers making the playoffs. His decision was not a personal goal that lined up with what I would imagine the Rangers would have wanted him to do. May be putting too much into that but that is just my take on it.

 

[TheRangerDude]

You are speculating that he didn't use, and I'm speculating that the possibility exists that he did previously to when he said he did, thats all... its all speculation, you choose to believe him I choose to be skeptical, that's all

His numbers are all over the place, that doesn't help you cause at all actually, not to mention the trouble staying healthy, especially with all the muscle injuries (hamstrings)

Once again, you choose to take him at his word, I choose to be skeptical b/c he's given me no reason to not do that

How can I speculate that he didn't use? You realize that makes no sense. You are innocent till proven guilty, not he other way around. There is no evidence that he did use at any other time, so to presume he did at any other time holds no water. To presume he didn't does… I can back it up too… there is no evidence to the contrary. Everything else you list is just further speculation and not evidence. Peoples numbers can go all over the place and get hurt without PEDs. However, his numbers have really not been all over the place anyway. The only real outlier in his career is the season he used PEDs and that season was a career low rather than a career high.

You have the right to not trust him but you must realize that your distrust is based on one instance and not a series of them. To me, one instance isn't enough to suggest any sort of pattern of behavior and it is a little harsh to assume such.

 

[donaldson79]

That is going to be one ugly ass contract 3 or 4 years down the road.

Sorry....but I gotta disagree with ya on how bad this deal looks in 3/4 years. Why the hell would we sign a guy for 7 years, and think we'd only get 2/3 years good/decent years? That makes no sense at all.

 

[ESPN Refugee]

Sorry....but I gotta disagree with ya on how bad this deal looks in 3/4 years. Why the hell would we sign a guy for 7 years, and think we'd only get 2/3 years good/decent years? That makes no sense at all.

I think if we were truly truly 1 player away and he was the sole and missing piece to the WS ring then I think we and other teams would do such an action but I really think Choo will give us at least 5 very good and productive years of his 7 year contract. But then again I do see one's possible concern given he's 31 already.

 

[jta4437]

How can I speculate that he didn't use? You realize that makes no sense. You are innocent till proven guilty, not he other way around. There is no evidence that he did use at any other time, so to presume he did at any other time holds no water. To presume he didn't does… I can back it up too… there is no evidence to the contrary. Everything else you list is just further speculation and not evidence. Peoples numbers can go all over the place and get hurt without PEDs. However, his numbers have really not been all over the place anyway. The only real outlier in his career is the season he used PEDs and that season was a career low rather than a career high.

You have the right to not trust him but you must realize that your distrust is based on one instance and not a series of them. To me, one instance isn't enough to suggest any sort of pattern of behavior and it is a little harsh to assume such.

This isn't the court of law, its the court of public opinion, and I choose to have a different opinion than you

I'm not trying to send him to jail

Look a little deeper at the numbers and you'll see, he's very much all over the place

You're trying to change my opinion, yet I'm not trying to change yours, you should probably get over it

Once again, Cruz's actions have led to speculation, not anything I'm making up

 

[WastinSomeTime]

One of the most revered records in all of baseball as a kid was the 61 HRs in a season by Maris and the Ruth (714) and then later in life the Aaron career HR record of 755. As far as most baseball fans go those have been forever given a black eye. And it is a real shame.

 

[donaldson79]

I think if we were truly truly 1 player away and he was the sole and missing piece to the WS ring then I think we and other teams would do such an action but I really think Choo will give us at least 5 very good and productive years of his 7 year contract. But then again I do see one's possible concern given he's 31 already.

And I disagree with this premise as well.

JD would be an idiot to sign a guy to the amount of money ($130 mil) and length (7 years) as he committed to Choo and think, at the worst, he'd get maybe 2/3 years. That's a horrible contract, period.

And we all know JD is not an idiot.

 

[jta4437]

And I disagree with this premise as well.

JD would be an idiot to sign a guy to the amount of money ($130 mil) and length (7 years) as he committed to Choo and think, at the worst, he'd get maybe 2/3 years. That's a horrible contract, period.

And we all know JD is not an idiot.

What premise do you disagree with? He says he thinks Choo will give is 5 very good years, but he understands the concern of giving 7 years to a 31 year old

He was basically agreeing with you... did you not realize that?

 

[ESPN Refugee]

And I disagree with this premise as well.

JD would be an idiot to sign a guy to the amount of money ($130 mil) and length (7 years) as he committed to Choo and think, at the worst, he'd get maybe 2/3 years. That's a horrible contract, period.

And we all know JD is not an idiot.

When teams are that close or at least feel that way they can do some things that may not be the most rational. Obviously not 2 or 3 years but if you feel like someone may give you just 4 years but those 4 years are your true window then teams would do that IMO.

 

[Al Falfa]

I disagree, his game lends itself to soft regression not dramatic falloff

Maybe so, but how many guys who play average defense and have trouble hitting LH pitching at age 31 are earning that 20 mill a year at age 35? I would guess not many. I like the deal short term, but I can also see it turning out to be a 40-60 mill dollar collar before he's done.

 

[donaldson79]

One of the most revered records in all of baseball as a kid was the 61 HRs in a season by Maris and the Ruth (714) and then later in life the Aaron career HR record of 755. As far as most baseball fans go those have been forever given a black eye. And it is a real shame.

..

I don't see how alcohol consumption would be considered a plus, in Ruth's case.

And if anyone wants to argue about Maris and The Hammer, I can't, because I won't understand where they're coming from to begin with.

 

[ESPN Refugee]

What premise do you disagree with? He says he thinks Choo will give is 5 very good years, but he understands the concern of giving 7 years to a 31 year old

He was basically agreeing with you... did you not realize that?

Yes I was definitely agreeing with him. Just pointing out that organizations can also once in a while make those bold choices that may seem irrational if they feel a certain way about their club.

 

[donaldson79]

What premise do you disagree with? He says he thinks Choo will give is 5 very good years, but he understands the concern of giving 7 years to a 31 year old

He was basically agreeing with you... did you not realize that?

Perhaps not....I was off on a tangent there.

Sorry.

 

[donaldson79]

Yes I was definitely agreeing with him. Just pointing out that organizations can also once in a while make those bold choices that may seem irrational if they feel a certain way about their club.

My humblest of apologizes sir.

 

[jta4437]

Maybe so, but how many guys who play average defense and have trouble hitting LH pitching at age 31 are earning that 20 mill a year at age 35? I would guess not many. I like the deal short term, but I can also see it turning out to be a 40-60 mill dollar collar before he's done.

I see him earning a ton of the value back on this deal in the first 4 years, 40-60 million is a bit steep, I see him getting about 80-90 million in value in the first 4 years, and even in his later years I still see him as about a 2 WAR player

If its a loss its no more than 10-15 million, JMO

Fielder is going to be the bigger dumpster fire, even with Detroit kicking in 30 million

 

[TheRangerDude]

This isn't the court of law, its the court of public opinion, and I choose to have a different opinion than you

I'm not trying to send him to jail

Look a little deeper at the numbers and you'll see, he's very much all over the place

You're trying to change my opinion, yet I'm not trying to change yours, you should probably get over it

Once again, Cruz's actions have led to speculation, not anything I'm making up

Thats were you got me wrong. I am not trying to change your mind on anything. You have the right to your opinion but I just happen to disagree with that and am telling you why… much like you do to most of my posts . In my mind, my opinion needs to have some facts to back it up. For now, I believe that this was a one time thing, since there is no history of it other than the one occurrence and there were some extenuating circumstance that I can see might have led to a poor choice. You don't see that and thats fine. I was over it before it began b/c you are not going to change my opinion either. Lets not forget you initiated this whole thing with your reply.

 

[jta4437]

Lets not forget you initiated this whole thing with your reply.

Well that's bullshit, I responded to greygrey's post about Cruz being above average, and then you asked me to explain the regression

You responded to my post, nice try though

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Angels about to sign Mulder. Going for the really inexpensive moves and hoping to land one. Hope it turns into an Oswalt deal.

 

[TheRangerDude]

Well that's bullshit, I responded to greygrey's post about Cruz being above average, and then you asked me to explain the regression

You responded to my post, nice try though

Fair enough… you jumped in our conversation. Either way its all fair game… that's what this place is supposed to be, a home to all of our opinions. Sure some of us want ours to be more right than someones else's but at the end of the day they are all just that opinions. Some of us are just more stubborn than others.