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2012 College Football / 2013 NFL Draft
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clyde_carbon
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He's been horrible. Could be benched in fact if he continues to make stupid decisions with the football. Just completely folds under pressure. No way he declares this year with this performance. He'll have to come back and recoup some of his stock that he's lost.
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NFL Draft Blog
Top line prospects in revealing matchups
October, 23, 2012 11:27AM ET
By Steve Muench
Every January, NFL scouts and team brass migrate south to watch college all-star games and the practices leading up to them, in order to see the best pro prospects in the nation going up against each other.
That's something you don't see on a weekly basis during the regular season, but Week 8 of the college season gave us a preview of that kind of matchup.
When LSU headed to Texas A&M last week, talent evaluators got a look at a pair of the Tigers' first-round defensive ends butting heads with the Aggies' early-round offensive tackles.
However, unlike what we see in all-star settings scheme, personnel and game plans cannot be taken out of the equation when film of these matchups, so here are a couple of factors to keep in mind.
• The A&M tackles line up in two-point stances, which likely impacts their ability to generate power as run blockers. And while they benefit from mobile QB Johnny Manziel masking some mistakes, Manziel holds the ball far too long at times.
• The Tigers were focused on keeping Manziel in the pocket to avoid being hurt by his running ability, so their ends di not appear to be as aggressive as usual.
Still, this is as good as it gets in terms of regular-season matchups, and here's what I saw on both sides of the line of scrimmage in College Station, as well as look at two notable interior matchups from earlier in the season.
Prospects are listed with their Scouts Inc. draft grades, and draft-eligible non-seniors are noted with an asterisk.
Luke Joeckel has fared well against most defenders this season.
Texas A&M LT Luke Joeckel* (89) vs. LSU DE Sam Montgomery* (92)
Joeckel and Montgomery battled to a stalemate in the running game. Montgomery (6-foot-4, 245 pounds) won the battle of leverage and set the edge when the Aggies tried to run at him, while Joeckel got into sound initial position and sustained more often than not. There's also a lot to like about the way Joeckel located and attacked his second-level blocks.
The passing attack was far more revealing for both prospects. Joeckel (6-5¾, 306) can protect the edge and redirect smoothly against pass-rushers, but he struggled with power moves. Montgomery's speed-to-power moves, as well as the upper-body strength of fellow DE Lavar Edwards (63), put Joeckel on his heels at times. He recovered well, but Joeckel needs to sink his hips and do a better job absorbing that initial surge.
Finally, Mongtomery's effort isn't an issue and he closed on plays fairly well, but he doesn't appear to have elite initial quickness and his inability to come up with counter moves as a pass-rusher jumps out. He continues to rely too heavily on his power.
Texas A&M RT Jake Matthews* (76) vs. LSU DE Barkevious Mingo* (92)Matthews showed good power and got the better of Mingo as a run blocker. While Mingo (6-5, 240) used his quick feet and hands to get off blocks, he frequently did so three or four yards downfield. Matthews also was aggressive and engulfed LSU's linebackers when he climbed up to the second level.
Matthews (6-5, 305) likely helped his stock more than any other lineman in this game, and the reason is his performance in pass protection. He does get happy feet and overstep a bit too much, and Joeckel recognized and adjusted to pressure more quickly, but Matthews is stronger at the top of his set and handles power better. He slid his feet well once he locked on and, most importantly, showed he can ride an explosive edge rusher like Mingo past the quarterback.
In fact, Matthews' ability to cut off the edge may have played a role in Mingo being overanxious and jumping offside at times. Finally, Mingo beat an H-back, not Matthews, the one time he did get to Manziel. To his credit, though, Mingo showed the blend of quickness, upper-body strength and body control on that play that teams covet in edge rushers.
USC C Khaled Holmes (79) vs. Utah DT Star Lotulelei (95)
This early-October matchup pitted the top center on our board against the No. 1 overall prospect in our rankings, and there's no question who came out on top.
Lotulelei (6-3, 320) drove Holmes back and recovered a muffed snap early on, and also took advantage of a busted blocking assignment to make a play in the backfield early in the game. Whether Holmes (6-3¼, 308) is to blame for any mental mistakes is less of a concern than his inability to hold up physically. Lotulelei's blend of initial quickness and power proved too much for Holmes on multiple snaps.
In addition, Lotulelei gets down the line better than any other defensive tackle prospect in this class. He made it tough for Holmes to hook him on zone runs, and Lotulelei even overran one play near the goal line.
However, Holmes did a better job of getting into position and covering up as the game progressed. He didn't generate much push, but at least he occupied Lotulelei. Finally, Lotulelei didn't show much as a pass-rusher other than potential. As strong and quick as he is, Lotulelei didn't flash enough savvy in setting up and countering Holmes. He wasted too much motion rather than simply getting upfield.
Michigan OT Taylor Lewan* (80) vs. Notre Dame defensive line
The Fighting Irish have three defensive linemen with the talent to contribute at the next level -- DE Kapron Lewis-Moore (62), OLB Prince Shembo (no grade), DE Stephon Tuitt (no grade) – and Lewan saw plenty of all three in this September matchup.
Shembo (6-2, 250) recorded a sack on a play that started with him lining up opposite Lewan (6-7, 302) and shooting inside, but a closer look suggests a protection breakdown is to blame. Wolverines LG Ricky Barnum appears responsible for the B gap in the slide protection, and the way the overall matchup between Lewan and Shembo unfolds supports that suggestion. Lewan locked onto and controlled Shembo, both in the run game and in pass protection, for most of the night.
However, Lewis-Moore (6-3⅝, 304) and Tuitt (6-6, 303) shined a light on one of Lewan's bigger weaknesses: a lack of balance. Lewan did generate good initial push as a drive blocker, but he didn't keep his pads down and played with a narrow base. That affected his ability to to sustain blocks against Lewis-Moore and Tuitt, who both show good strength at the point.
In pass protection, Tuitt used his hands to prevent Lewan from locking on and quickly slipped the block when Lewan was caught lunging. There's a lot to like about Lewan's tenacity and toughness, but it's important he do a better job sinking his hips than he did at times in this game.
Top line prospects in revealing matchups
October, 23, 2012 11:27AM ET
By Steve Muench
Every January, NFL scouts and team brass migrate south to watch college all-star games and the practices leading up to them, in order to see the best pro prospects in the nation going up against each other.
That's something you don't see on a weekly basis during the regular season, but Week 8 of the college season gave us a preview of that kind of matchup.
When LSU headed to Texas A&M last week, talent evaluators got a look at a pair of the Tigers' first-round defensive ends butting heads with the Aggies' early-round offensive tackles.
However, unlike what we see in all-star settings scheme, personnel and game plans cannot be taken out of the equation when film of these matchups, so here are a couple of factors to keep in mind.
• The A&M tackles line up in two-point stances, which likely impacts their ability to generate power as run blockers. And while they benefit from mobile QB Johnny Manziel masking some mistakes, Manziel holds the ball far too long at times.
• The Tigers were focused on keeping Manziel in the pocket to avoid being hurt by his running ability, so their ends di not appear to be as aggressive as usual.
Still, this is as good as it gets in terms of regular-season matchups, and here's what I saw on both sides of the line of scrimmage in College Station, as well as look at two notable interior matchups from earlier in the season.
Prospects are listed with their Scouts Inc. draft grades, and draft-eligible non-seniors are noted with an asterisk.
Luke Joeckel has fared well against most defenders this season.
Texas A&M LT Luke Joeckel* (89) vs. LSU DE Sam Montgomery* (92)
Joeckel and Montgomery battled to a stalemate in the running game. Montgomery (6-foot-4, 245 pounds) won the battle of leverage and set the edge when the Aggies tried to run at him, while Joeckel got into sound initial position and sustained more often than not. There's also a lot to like about the way Joeckel located and attacked his second-level blocks.
The passing attack was far more revealing for both prospects. Joeckel (6-5¾, 306) can protect the edge and redirect smoothly against pass-rushers, but he struggled with power moves. Montgomery's speed-to-power moves, as well as the upper-body strength of fellow DE Lavar Edwards (63), put Joeckel on his heels at times. He recovered well, but Joeckel needs to sink his hips and do a better job absorbing that initial surge.
Finally, Mongtomery's effort isn't an issue and he closed on plays fairly well, but he doesn't appear to have elite initial quickness and his inability to come up with counter moves as a pass-rusher jumps out. He continues to rely too heavily on his power.
Texas A&M RT Jake Matthews* (76) vs. LSU DE Barkevious Mingo* (92)Matthews showed good power and got the better of Mingo as a run blocker. While Mingo (6-5, 240) used his quick feet and hands to get off blocks, he frequently did so three or four yards downfield. Matthews also was aggressive and engulfed LSU's linebackers when he climbed up to the second level.
Matthews (6-5, 305) likely helped his stock more than any other lineman in this game, and the reason is his performance in pass protection. He does get happy feet and overstep a bit too much, and Joeckel recognized and adjusted to pressure more quickly, but Matthews is stronger at the top of his set and handles power better. He slid his feet well once he locked on and, most importantly, showed he can ride an explosive edge rusher like Mingo past the quarterback.
In fact, Matthews' ability to cut off the edge may have played a role in Mingo being overanxious and jumping offside at times. Finally, Mingo beat an H-back, not Matthews, the one time he did get to Manziel. To his credit, though, Mingo showed the blend of quickness, upper-body strength and body control on that play that teams covet in edge rushers.
USC C Khaled Holmes (79) vs. Utah DT Star Lotulelei (95)
This early-October matchup pitted the top center on our board against the No. 1 overall prospect in our rankings, and there's no question who came out on top.
Lotulelei (6-3, 320) drove Holmes back and recovered a muffed snap early on, and also took advantage of a busted blocking assignment to make a play in the backfield early in the game. Whether Holmes (6-3¼, 308) is to blame for any mental mistakes is less of a concern than his inability to hold up physically. Lotulelei's blend of initial quickness and power proved too much for Holmes on multiple snaps.
In addition, Lotulelei gets down the line better than any other defensive tackle prospect in this class. He made it tough for Holmes to hook him on zone runs, and Lotulelei even overran one play near the goal line.
However, Holmes did a better job of getting into position and covering up as the game progressed. He didn't generate much push, but at least he occupied Lotulelei. Finally, Lotulelei didn't show much as a pass-rusher other than potential. As strong and quick as he is, Lotulelei didn't flash enough savvy in setting up and countering Holmes. He wasted too much motion rather than simply getting upfield.
Michigan OT Taylor Lewan* (80) vs. Notre Dame defensive line
The Fighting Irish have three defensive linemen with the talent to contribute at the next level -- DE Kapron Lewis-Moore (62), OLB Prince Shembo (no grade), DE Stephon Tuitt (no grade) – and Lewan saw plenty of all three in this September matchup.
Shembo (6-2, 250) recorded a sack on a play that started with him lining up opposite Lewan (6-7, 302) and shooting inside, but a closer look suggests a protection breakdown is to blame. Wolverines LG Ricky Barnum appears responsible for the B gap in the slide protection, and the way the overall matchup between Lewan and Shembo unfolds supports that suggestion. Lewan locked onto and controlled Shembo, both in the run game and in pass protection, for most of the night.
However, Lewis-Moore (6-3⅝, 304) and Tuitt (6-6, 303) shined a light on one of Lewan's bigger weaknesses: a lack of balance. Lewan did generate good initial push as a drive blocker, but he didn't keep his pads down and played with a narrow base. That affected his ability to to sustain blocks against Lewis-Moore and Tuitt, who both show good strength at the point.
In pass protection, Tuitt used his hands to prevent Lewan from locking on and quickly slipped the block when Lewan was caught lunging. There's a lot to like about Lewan's tenacity and toughness, but it's important he do a better job sinking his hips than he did at times in this game.
CalamityX11
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Ray_Dogg
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Yep. Sad thing is Worley is even worse. Bray is pretty much fucked because Dooley is most likely gone and next year will be another transition year possibly without Hunter and Patterson. I have no idea what sack of shit coach they would bring in next.
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NinerSickness
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Wow. Sean Porter in the 3rd round??? I'd jump all over that.
The end of the 3rd round for Aaron Dobson? Hmm....
Alex Okafor at 44? That'd be a steal. David Ammerson in the 2nd would be a great pick to land a FS.
I still don't get why people have Chase Thomas so high. Maybe as an ILB? Don't see the quickness of a 3-4 OLB.
The end of the 3rd round for Aaron Dobson? Hmm....
Alex Okafor at 44? That'd be a steal. David Ammerson in the 2nd would be a great pick to land a FS.
I still don't get why people have Chase Thomas so high. Maybe as an ILB? Don't see the quickness of a 3-4 OLB.
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I noticed Kevin Minter sn't on that list. When he temporarily got hurt against the Gaytors, LSU's defense was not the same. He was impressive in that game. Maybe he's not in that mock 'cause people expect him to go back to school?
By the way, anyone know if he's related to Mike Minter?
By the way, anyone know if he's related to Mike Minter?
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Damontre Moore 11th overall? Fuck. Please don't tell me people are catching up on this guy.
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NinerSickness
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Well, he does have 9.5 sacks right now, which is tops in NCAA.
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Yeah, I figured it was only a matter time before the best pass-rusher in the draft gets some recognition.
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Damn Clyde you're riding off Jones, Mingo, Montgomery for Moore. I like Moore a whole lot but that's saying a lot considering guys like Jones and Mingo have God given skills in chasing QBs.
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I'm really, really high on Moore. I think he's Lamarr Woodley version 2.0, but even better. I still have Jones as the better prospect because he's better in coverage and a little more athletic, but Moore is such a force as a pure pass-rusher.
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Mingo + Montgomery combined: 46 tackles, 13 TFLs, 7 sacks
Moore: 62 tackles, 17 TFLs, 9.5 sacks
Sorry, but Moore is just terrorizing SEC OL right now, and he's not playing on a star-studded DL like Mingo/Montgomery or even Jones. He's big, strong as an ox, has a great first step, and tremendous closing speed. I LOVE his attitude, too. Plays intense.
He's one of three guys (Wilson, Poyer) that I would kill to land where we pick.
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I just noticed that mock Ray posted has Poyer at 45. That seems ridiculously low. Is that because he's had off-field problems?
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I hear you man, but when it comes to stats and numbers I have learned throughout the years that I should allow #s influence me much when analyzing college prospects. Of course we must take it into consideration but nowadays I don't allow that allow to influence my decision when evaluating any prospect. For example, Percy Harvin receiving #s as a gator (mediocre at best). Clay Matthews didn't have jaw dropping #s as well, but he flashed that uncanny ability to get to QBs (I missed that back then when he was a prospect, and I refuse to do the same mistake with somone like Mingo). In all honesty I like Bjoern Werner slightly better than Moore, but as previously stated I like Moore a lot...a whole lot! And I would be please to land anyone of those guys in 2013. Moore would be the better 3-4 OLB prospect whereas Werner IMO would be the better 4-3 DE. Werner has shed some pounds and looks amazing playing lighter. Worse case scenario he could be as good as Ryan Kerrigan who's transitioning to be a very good rush lb in the league. They already have Werner playing standing-up a lot this year as opposed to previous years:
[YOUTUBE]UV4Bu_T1CNs&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
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With all the picks we have in 2013, I'd trade up in the early second to grab Patterson out of the reach of our NFC West Rivals. As a matter of fact I'd trade up two times in the 2nd round to target Patterson and Amerson. Granted we draft someone else in the first (OLB or NT). Patterson is one of my fav prospects in this entire draft. He brings so much to the table for any offensive scheme. What a talent he is! He's my # 1 rated receiver, extremely raw but hey?!
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Bingo, it's not like Moore's sacks are just clean ups. He's a GREAT pass-rusher, and has a tremendous skill set that translates very well to the NFL. It's not just about production, obviously, but he's outperforming both Mingo AND Montgomery COMBINED against the same OLs. That says something.
As far as Montgomery goes, I don't think he'll ever be a premier pass-rusher in the NFL. I think he's better suited as 4-3 LDE or even as a 5-tech, but I don't think he'll ever been a consistent double digit sack guy in the NFL. I don't see that ability in him. He's a nice, well-rounded prospect, but he's not gonna be a guy OCs are gonna have to gameplan around in the NFL.
As far as Montgomery goes, I don't think he'll ever be a premier pass-rusher in the NFL. I think he's better suited as 4-3 LDE or even as a 5-tech, but I don't think he'll ever been a consistent double digit sack guy in the NFL. I don't see that ability in him. He's a nice, well-rounded prospect, but he's not gonna be a guy OCs are gonna have to gameplan around in the NFL.
