Bruce Allen adamant that KC will be back next year

[skinsdad62]

You are right, it has happened a handful of times. In 51 years. And again none of those average QBs got close again. In 51 years it has happened a handful of times, isn't that enough evidence?

we have had 3 avg qbs ourselves add 4 if you claim kilmer

 

[SoCalWizFan]

we have had 3 avg qbs ourselves add 4 if you claim kilmer

Yep but the cases of Rypien and Williams are very unique. Rypien was not the most talented & didn't have a great career but man did he have one of the best seasons ever. Williams didn't even have a good season w/ the Redskins but his SB was one of the finest performances ever by a QB. Great memories - hopefully the current team can create some of their own soon.

 

[skinsdad62]

joe kapp started a super bowl , as did darlye lamonica ryp , thiesman , doug williams , billy kilmer earl morrall stan humphries . trent dilfer brad johnson jim mcmahon , craig morton jeff hosteteler , tony eason jim plunket , ron jaworski , washed up johnny unitas , washed up peyton manning , vince farragamo . ken anderson , david woodley , niel o donnell , chris chandler , brad johnson , kerry collins , rich gannon jake delhomme . matt hasselback rex grossman colin kaepernick

that is 30 qbs who have started super bowls who were avg or even below

hardly a handful

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

joe kapp started a super bowl , as did darlye lamonica ryp , thiesman , doug williams , billy kilmer earl morrall stan humphries . trent dilfer brad johnson jim mcmahon , craig morton jeff hosteteler , tony eason jim plunket , ron jaworski , washed up johnny unitas , washed up peyton manning , vince farragamo . ken anderson , david woodley , niel o donnell , chris chandler , brad johnson , kerry collins , rich gannon jake delhomme . matt hasselback rex grossman colin kaepernick

that is 30 qbs who have started super bowls who were avg or even below

hardly a handful

1. You are using QBs from before the pass happy days of today. The QB is much more important today so trotting out Joe Kapp isn't really all that relevant.

2. You have completely glossed over the fact that most all of the names on that list were one and done. What we are talking about here is sustained excellence, not a one hit wonder like Mark Rypien and virtually every name on your list.

3. Every list is subjective, I get that. But some of those names on it is nuts. Just for starters Theisman was an MVP, LeMonica was a 2 time AFL MVP, then 3 time NFL Pro Bowler. Ken Anderson was a 4 time Pro Bowler. Rich Gannon was a journeyman until he got to Oakland, then he was a 4 straight Pro Bowls (2 MVPs). Jim Plunkett was such a stiff the Niners traded a QB, 2 Firsts and then a 1st and a 2nd for him in '78 and he is always in Hall of Fame discussions. So let's just say your list is bullshit, plenty of really good QBs on that list.

4. So with your list now qualified and with the understanding that maybe 15-20 fit the description of average or below we are now looking at 15-20 or so out of 102 Super Bowl QBs who fit your description and again every one was one and done. That hardly makes this a strong argument seeing as 80-85 were better than average, they were good.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I would add that McMahon was considered one of the better QBs in his day & had a very promising career till injuries took their toll. I think that in today's era (where the QB is much more protected) he might have had a long career.

 

[Rowdy]

Cant believe anyone doesn't want a competent QB like the one we have in kirk. who I think can get much better

 

[j_y19]

Cant believe anyone doesn't want a competent QB like the one we have in kirk. who I think can get much better

It's hard to believe, isn't it?

 

[Sharkinva]

Cant believe anyone doesn't want a competent QB like the one we have in kirk. who I think can get much better

I dont think its strictly a case of people not wanting to keep Kirk. Well most people any way.

But what Im getting is, its more a fact that if we resign Kirk to the money they are talking about it takes us out of the mode where we are constantly looking for the next elite QB at least for the next 3-5 years. And you can bank on it, if some one like Watson is sitting there at 17, we didnt draft him because we had Kirk signed long term... and Watson becomes the next elite QB....


We will never hear the end of it unless Kirk wins us a Super Bowl.

 

[j_y19]

Found this one on the comments section of WP article. Good catch by this poster:

As to #3, its all but impossible to predict college QB success in the pros. Just for grins, last year my son and I spent an hour tracking the fate of 1st and 2nd round QB picks over the last 20+ years. It's it's an ugly record. Bottom line is getting a good QB via the first two rounds is a crapshoot at best; getting a great one is a miracle.

1994 - Trent Dilfer and...wait for it...Heath Shuler.
1995 - Kerry Collins, Todd Collins, Kordell Stewart
1996 - Tony Banks
1997 - Jim Druckenmiller, Jake Plummer
1998 - Peyton Manning (#1), Ryan Leaf (#2), Charlie Batch
1999 - Tim Couch (#1), Donovan McNabb (#2), Akili Smith (#3), Daunte Culpepper, Shaun King
2000 - Chad Pennington
2001 - Michael Vick (#1), Drew Brees, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasasosopo
2002 - David Carr (#1), Joey Harrington (#3), Patrick Ramsey
2003 - Carson Palmer (#1), Byron Leftwich
2004 - Eli Manning (#1), Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, J. P. Losman
2005 - Alex Smith (#1), Aaron Rogers, Jason Campbell
2006 - Vince Young (#3), Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
2007 - JaMarcus Russell (#1), Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
2008 - Matt Ryan (#3), Joe Flacco, Brian Brohme, Chad Henne
2009 - Matthew Stafford (#1), Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Pat White
2010 - Sam Bradford (#1), Tim Tebow
2011 - Cam Newton (#1), Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick
2012 - Andrew Luck (#1), Robert Griffin III (#2), Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weedon, Brock Osweiler
2013 - EJ Manuel, Geno Smith
2014 - Blake Bortles (#3), Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garropolo
2015 - Jameis Winston (#1), Marcus Mariota (#2)

I count maybe 5 - 6 greats in there, depending how one defines great, and maybe 10 good/very good, maybe another half-dozen serviceable, a lot of total busts. That's out of 72 guys drafted in the first two rounds. For every Peyton Manning there's a JaMarcus Russell....


Wow - for anyone advocating trading Cousins & using the draft to find his replacement you may want to think twice about that.

Cmon socal, anyone of those guys could pass for 5000 yds in this offense with the weapons cousins had available to him. What he did wasn't really that difficult.

 

[Breed]

If that were true, Eli doesnt even play, Beckham isnt in the game in the second half.

Look I know its real easy to say.. Kirk lost a game to a team that had nothing to play for. But the reality is, the Redskins lost a game that we took for granted and the Giants wanted to win period.

Is that the same reality that says the Redskins defense lost the game to the Lions earlier this year?

 

[Breed]

joe kapp started a super bowl , as did darlye lamonica ryp , thiesman , doug williams , billy kilmer earl morrall stan humphries . trent dilfer brad johnson jim mcmahon , craig morton jeff hosteteler , tony eason jim plunket , ron jaworski , washed up johnny unitas , washed up peyton manning , vince farragamo . ken anderson , david woodley , niel o donnell , chris chandler , brad johnson , kerry collins , rich gannon jake delhomme . matt hasselback rex grossman colin kaepernick

that is 30 qbs who have started super bowls who were avg or even below

hardly a handful

Ken Anderson wasn't average imo. Neither was Jim Plunket. Not claiming they were great, but they were better than average.

 

[Sharkinva]

Is that the same reality that says the Redskins defense lost the game to the Lions earlier this year?

When the offense hands the defense a lead in the 4th quarter with less than 70 seconds left, and the defense proceeds to let the other team score with little or no resistance.... How is the loss on the QB??

Washington leads 17-13 with 1:05 left on the clock. Kick off, Detroit drives 75 yards for the TD in 49 seconds. If the defense could have held them to a field goal try.. we win. Kirk completed 75% of his passes in that game with no INTs. He had a passing AND a Rushing TD.... But you want to blame the QB for that loss??

 

[skinsdad62]

again i have said "in the history of superbowls " so when do you want to stop ? in my lifetime , which covers them all , there have been 30 qbs

now where do you want to go ? lets go tom brady era brady 6 starts ,big ben 2 elite peyton manning 2 eli 2 aaron 1, 2 rw brees 1 i cam 1 ryan warner 2 thats 19 starts i dmac so 20

kaep , flacco mcnair dilfer collins johnson gannon delhomme rex , hasselback 1 awful peyyton , that is 11

so again i would say that is more then a handful

Ken Anderson wasn't average imo. Neither was Jim Plunket. Not claiming they were great, but they were better than average.

ok so knock off 2 for you but plunket was avg imo

 

[Breed]

When the offense hands the defense a lead in the 4th quarter with less than 70 seconds left, and the defense proceeds to let the other team score with little or no resistance.... How is the loss on the QB??

Washington leads 17-13 with 1:05 left on the clock. Kick off, Detroit drives 75 yards for the TD in 49 seconds. If the defense could have held them to a field goal try.. we win. Kirk completed 75% of his passes in that game with no INTs. He had a passing AND a Rushing TD.... But you want to blame the QB for that loss??

Why would the Lions try to kick a FG when they were down by 4 points?

<looks high n low, to and fro at his last post in this thread and is satisfied its not there in any shape, form or fashion>

Where did I say in my last post that the loss to the Lions was on Kirk Cousins? Is it in invisible ink? Do you think you read the thought in my mind? Where did you even get that impression from?

So a game where the Skins defense allows the game winning drive to take place in the last minute of the game. It's 100% their fault and the loss is on them. Gotcha.

But in a game that means a postseason berth for the Redskins with a victory. A game that didn't mean shit for the Giants. A game where the defense held the Giants to 13 points for the entire game. Our offense led by Kirk Cousins could only mustesr 10 points.............for the game. And even with 1 last chance where a FG would've tied the game up and there was still plenty of time. Instead of playing smart. Kirk Cousins appears to panic and throws an ill advised pass that is promptly INTed. That game though is not Kirk's fault, no, that's a team loss. Cuz the team, yeah even the defense that held the Giants to 13 points, took the game for granted. Gotcha.

You be carefrul, OK Shark. Cuz if Kirk has to make a sudden stop. You could very easily break your neck when he does. I don't want anything to happen to you as I look forward to how see many and how high are the hoops you're gonna jump through for KC tomorrow,

 

[Sharkinva]

Why would the Lions try to kick a FG when they were down by 4 points?

<looks high n low, to and fro at his last post in this thread and is satisfied its not there in any shape, form or fashion>

Where did I say in my last post that the loss to the Lions was on Kirk Cousins? Is it in invisible ink? Do you think you read the thought in my mind? Where did you even get that impression from?

So a game where the Skins defense allows the game winning drive to take place in the last minute of the game. It's 100% their fault and the loss is on them. Gotcha.

But in a game that means a postseason berth for the Redskins with a victory. A game that didn't mean shit for the Giants. A game where the defense held the Giants to 13 points for the entire game. Our offense led by Kirk Cousins could only mustesr 10 points.............for the game. And even with 1 last chance where a FG would've tied the game up and there was still plenty of time. Instead of playing smart. Kirk Cousins appears to panic and throws an ill advised pass that is promptly INTed. That game though is not Kirk's fault, no, that's a team loss. Cuz the team, yeah even the defense that held the Giants to 13 points for game must've has to be included as well, took the game for granted. Gotcha.

You be carefrul, OK Shark. Cuz if Kirk has to make a sudden stop. You could very easily break your neck when he does. I don't want anything to happen to you as I look forward to how see many and how high are the hoops you're gonna jump through for KC tomorrow,

Dude, it was a team loss. The defense held a team on average that was scoring 19 points per game to 13 points. The entire team came out flat. We had no ground game. And again, that game shouldnt have mattered to either team. But in most cases when a team really doesnt care about a game, they dont risk injury by playing their starting QB for the majority of the game. But if it makes people feel better to say, Kirk lost to a team that had nothing to play for..... God help us if the Skins actually sign him long term. Because short of winning a Lombardi I dont think there is anything Kirk can do to convince some of this fanbase.


Again had we won two of the games that Kirk DID put them in a position to win, we dont get to week 17 where Kirk needs to be Rogers to get us into the playoffs.

 

[Sharkinva]

Interesting quotes from Kirk



In particular, Cousins was asked why it's so important for him to maximize his value in these contract negotiations. And for as much as Cousins and his camp have been very strategic in their tactics thus far with the Redskins, his first thought was a team-first answer.

"I'm not trying to suck out every dollar possible. That's not the kind of guy I am or how I’m going to approach it," he said. "I understand, like Scot McCloughan and Jay Gruden, it’s all about winning football games."

One rational concern about a new deal for Cousins: Spending more than $100 million at QB would limit Washington's ability to pay other players. Cousins went on to explain that the salary cap has the biggest impact on quarterbacks' contracts.

"If the salary cap was much, much higher, than quarterbacks could make much, much more and it wouldn’t hurt the team. So the cap is really determining everything," Cousins said. "How much of the apple are you really taking, regardless of the dollar amount? That percentage is what my agent has always and will always focus on and negotiate off of - that’s what he’s explained to me."

That explanation came in reference to some quarterback contracts taking too much of the cap, and in turn, the team suffers. Cousins made clear that's not his intention, and if it was to happen, he would work to fix it.

"Frankly, once you sign the contract, there's no law saying you can’t renegotiate," the quarterback said. "If you sign the deal and you end up coming away from two seasons saying, ‘Hey, you know, not only did we not win but I think the reason is it’s I’m taking too much,’ then you can always talk about changing that. But I don’t see a need to do that on the front end."


Kirk is such a greedy selfish bastard.

 

[Breed]

In otherwords the Skins defense held the Giants 6 points under their 19 point a game average to only 13 points. Doesn't sound like the defense took ther game for granted.

Did the team lead the team to only 10 points? Did the team throw that 2nd INT? Were the Redskins in a position to win the game on the drive where Cuz threw that game ending INT? Yep. but what happened exactly? One player on the team threw an INT, a bad one.

Who cares if Eli playerd longer than you think he should've. Snd you trying to say the game meant as much to the Gianst as it diod r And the game did matter........to us. It was just hard to tell when the offense was on the field.

Rodgers?. How is leading your team to 17 points needing to be Rodgers? You've been saving that hoop for something special I see...good grief.

Poor ol' Kirk and the mean ol' fanbase again. If you want the fanbase to like Kirk more or accept him or whatever the hell you're bitchin about as it concerns the fans. Figure out a way for Kirk to play better than he did the last month of the season.

God help us if the Skins don't sign him. The woe woe woes and gnashing of teeth from you alone will probably make this place unbearable.

 

[Breed]

Interesting quotes from Kirk



In particular, Cousins was asked why it's so important for him to maximize his value in these contract negotiations. And for as much as Cousins and his camp have been very strategic in their tactics thus far with the Redskins, his first thought was a team-first answer.

"I'm not trying to suck out every dollar possible. That's not the kind of guy I am or how I’m going to approach it," he said. "I understand, like Scot McCloughan and Jay Gruden, it’s all about winning football games."

One rational concern about a new deal for Cousins: Spending more than $100 million at QB would limit Washington's ability to pay other players. Cousins went on to explain that the salary cap has the biggest impact on quarterbacks' contracts.

"If the salary cap was much, much higher, than quarterbacks could make much, much more and it wouldn’t hurt the team. So the cap is really determining everything," Cousins said. "How much of the apple are you really taking, regardless of the dollar amount? That percentage is what my agent has always and will always focus on and negotiate off of - that’s what he’s explained to me."

That explanation came in reference to some quarterback contracts taking too much of the cap, and in turn, the team suffers. Cousins made clear that's not his intention, and if it was to happen, he would work to fix it.

"Frankly, once you sign the contract, there's no law saying you can’t renegotiate," the quarterback said. "If you sign the deal and you end up coming away from two seasons saying, ‘Hey, you know, not only did we not win but I think the reason is it’s I’m taking too much,’ then you can always talk about changing that. But I don’t see a need to do that on the front end."


Kirk is such a greedy selfish bastard.

Or he could do a cap friendly deal right now where he'll still be a multi-millionaire who never has to work again if he's reasonably smart with his money. Then there would be no need to renegotiate.

 

[Sharkinva]

Or he could do a cap friendly deal right now where he'll still be a multi-millionaire who never has to work again if he's reasonably smart with his money. Then there would be no need to renegotiate.

Sure he could. But then if he outperformed that cap friendly deal and came back and said... you know I think im worth more.... Most people would once again be calling him a greedy asshole.

 

[Sharkinva]

In otherwords the Skins defense held the Giants 6 points under their 19 point a game average to only 13 points. Doesn't sound like the defense took ther game for granted.

Did the team lead the team to only 10 points? Did the team throw that 2nd INT? Were the Redskins in a position to win the game on the drive where Cuz threw that game ending INT? Yep. but what happened exactly? One player on the team threw an INT, a bad one.

Who cares if Eli playerd longer than you think he should've. Snd you trying to say the game meant as much to the Gianst as it diod r And the game did matter........to us. It was just hard to tell when the offense was on the field.

Rodgers?. How is leading your team to 17 points needing to be Rodgers? You've been saving that hoop for something special I see...good grief.

Poor ol' Kirk and the mean ol' fanbase again. If you want the fanbase to like Kirk more or accept him or whatever the hell you're bitchin about as it concerns the fans. Figure out a way for Kirk to play better than he did the last month of the season.

God help us if the Skins don't sign him. The woe woe woes and gnashing of teeth from you alone will probably make this place unbearable.

And if they do sign him.. the bitching on how we over paid him will be epic IM sure.