Bruce Allen adamant that KC will be back next year

[Stymietee]

I think it was go with the guy that has been a top 7 QB the past two years Sty. Funny the guys who didn't like him before are still crying their whining asses off.

OK, let's get to it, few if any wanted Kirk after he was benched, so there's that. It's revisionist history to jump on and off of the bandwagon and later claim to have been with him all along. We are just going to have to disagree on him being a top 7 QB...I can't argue what you see in him that leads you to that, but fair enough. Beyond that, there is nothing in my previous post that was not factually or subjectively accurate. Care to address any of that?

 

[Sportster 72]

Sty, I was a Cousins fan since I walked out of a restaurant in Occoquan looked at my cell phone, saw he was drafted in round 4 and pumped my fist.

He is a top 7 QB in stats the past two years. If you have another metric please use it.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty, I was a Cousins fan since I walked out of a restaurant in Occoquan looked at my cell phone, saw he was drafted in round 4 and pumped my fist.

He is a top 7 QB in stats the past two years. If you have another metric please use it.

OK then you are among the very few that I mentioned.

About that metric that you've asked for, here's the ONLY one that truly counts:
Quarterback Win/Loss Records | The Football Database
www.footballdb.com › Statistics

 

[j_y19]

OK then you are among the very few that I mentioned.

About that metric that you've asked for, here's the ONLY one that truly counts:
Quarterback Win/Loss Records | The Football Database
www.footballdb.com › Statistics

OK. Lets go with this statistic. What QB is available to us that has a better w/l record the KC and lets analyze that QB. That's fair, right? SO who do we get Sty?

 

[Stymietee]

OK. Lets go with this statistic. What QB is available to us that has a better w/l record the KC and lets analyze that QB. That's fair, right? SO who do we get Sty?

NO, that's not fair...you're asking me to predict what someone will do in this offense as if Kirk had stats that led anyone into thinking that he could do what he has prior to claiming the helm full time here. If you need specifics, I have already stated that right now I see Kirk lining up comparably with a Stan Humphries type. So from my perspective almost any mid level guy will do! We'll talk if he ever gets to be at a Trent Green level. You don't have to agree at all, just know that this is how I see him. Good for you if you see him differently!

 

[Stymietee]

OK. Lets go with this statistic. What QB is available to us that has a better w/l record the KC and lets analyze that QB. That's fair, right? SO who do we get Sty?

BTW: there was a question on the table asking me to provide a metric that DIDN'T show Cousins as a top 7 QB. I did that!! Additionally in the ONLY true metric that counts in the NFL.

 

[skinsdad62]

W/L record is BS because sonny jurgensens W?L record wasnt great at all and he is one of the all time greats

; stan humphries started a super bowl to boot

if you have a better fit at qb i am all ears that is available

time in and time out when that question is asked i hear crickets

if a name has been put to it refresh my memory because i suffer from some timers and dont remember it

 

[Stymietee]

W/L record is BS because sonny jurgensens W?L record wasnt great at all and he is one of the all time greats

;stan humphries started a super bowl to boot

if you have a better fit at qb i am all ears that is available

time in and time out when that question is asked i hear crickets

if a name has been put to it refresh my memory because i suffer from some timers and dont remember it

Sonny was a great player, it is damn near blasphemy to mention Kirk in the same sentence. At a time when QB's were actual targets, playing with inferior equipment, some dirt for pain, and a bottle for courage, Sonny performed. Kirk get no where close to any records under the same circumstances provided he lasts a full season.

You wrote; "Stan Humphries started a super bowl"....Hey Kirk started 1 playoff game, there has to be some equivalence somewhere in there.

I've put plenty of actual names out....real mid level type players-like Kirk who are actually in the NFL as we speak, but to what avail? Naw Sty, not that guy, you're cray cray Sty, or how does _______ even gets a mention when he can't start on his current team Sty.......Blah, blah and blah. Sorry been there done that!!

 

[Sportster 72]

Problem is Sty you blow our metrics out but accept yours. I accept that W/L is important to a good QB but it cannot be a sole metric. As dad pointed we need look no further than Sonny. A HoFer who played for more far more bad teams than good teams. That could be re-written to say that despite Sonny being such a good QB he played on bad teams could not over come those issues.

I submitted that there were two games this past year when Cousin's led the team to the potential win but through no fault of his they lost the game. He led the team to a go ahead score with 1:05 left but the defense could not protect the lead. He led the team to a potential game winning FG but the kicker missed. So what ended up being 8-7-1 could have been 10-6.

Although I accept your metric that W/L record is important it cannot be a sole metric. The QB cannot be held responsible for defense, he cannot kick field goals or be held responsible for special teams and he cannot be held responsible for coaching. You also made him responsible for the red zone issues this year. He is not LeBron James or Kobe Bryant. In the NBA a player can dominate a game (although that is changing.) Football is the ultimate team game. You say you plated the game and if so you would know that.

BTW, did you give him credit for the good red zone stats the year before that?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

BTW - if Cousins is mid level then RG3 is bargain basement level. Over the weekend I saw a girl wearing an RG3 Redskins jersey. I asked her why in the hell she was wearing it & where she found it. She said that she found it in a clearance bin for $10 - true story - LOL.

 

[skinsdad62]

well

Sonny was a great player, it is damn near blasphemy to mention Kirk in the same sentence. At a time when QB's were actual targets, playing with inferior equipment, some dirt for pain, and a bottle for courage, Sonny performed. Kirk get no where close to any records under the same circumstances provided he lasts a full season.

You wrote; "Stan Humphries started a super bowl"....Hey Kirk started 1 playoff game, there has to be some equivalence somewhere in there.

I've put plenty of actual names out....real mid level type players-like Kirk who are actually in the NFL as we speak, but to what avail? Naw Sty, not that guy, you're cray cray Sty, or how does _______ even gets a mention when he can't start on his current team Sty.......Blah, blah and blah. Sorry been there done that!!

again put a name out there i have forgotten . let it be put to scrutiny as KC has been

 

[ehb5]

W/L record is BS because sonny jurgensens W?L record wasnt great at all and he is one of the all time greats

; stan humphries started a super bowl to boot

if you have a better fit at qb i am all ears that is available

time in and time out when that question is asked i hear crickets

if a name has been put to it refresh my memory because i suffer from some timers and dont remember it

Do you think the Chiefs should keep Alex Smith?

 

[skinsdad62]

Do you think the Chiefs should keep Alex Smith?

short answer , yes , nothing says you cant draft a qb and develop one but alex smith and KC are 2 different scenarios . smith is 33 and heading toward the end , KC is just entering his prime

 

[ehb5]

short answer , yes , nothing says you cant draft a qb and develop one but alex smith and KC are 2 different scenarios . smith is 33 and heading toward the end , KC is just entering his prime

For sure theyre different scenarios. Asking more because I think part of all the disagreement on KC comes from there being 2 big questions about QB.

1. How good of a QB do you need
2. How good of a QB is Kirk

Some people think an Alex Smith level QB is good enough and some people dont.
Some people think Kirk is a top 10 or maybe even higher QB some think hes not top 15 or maybe even easily replaceable.

So between those 2 options you get a lot of varying opinions on what we should do about Kirk and what he means to this team.

 

[skinsdad62]

th

Sonny was a great player, it is damn near blasphemy to mention Kirk in the same sentence. At a time when QB's were actual targets, playing with inferior equipment, some dirt for pain, and a bottle for courage, Sonny performed. Kirk get no where close to any records under the same circumstances provided he lasts a full season.

You wrote; "Stan Humphries started a super bowl"....Hey Kirk started 1 playoff game, there has to be some equivalence somewhere in there.

I've put plenty of actual names out....real mid level type players-like Kirk who are actually in the NFL as we speak, but to what avail? Naw Sty, not that guy, you're cray cray Sty, or how does _______ even gets a mention when he can't start on his current team Sty.......Blah, blah and blah. Sorry been there done that!!

the only one i can remember is matt mcgloin who has a career 1-7 record , is a sub 60% career passer , has 11 tds and 11 ints , and when his big chance came he couldnt stay healthy to seize it

so if that is what you are putting up , that is laughable

 

[skinsdad62]

For sure theyre different scenarios. Asking more because I think part of all the disagreement on KC comes from there being 2 big questions about QB.

1. How good of a QB do you need
2. How good of a QB is Kirk

Some people think an Alex Smith level QB is good enough and some people dont.
Some people think Kirk is a top 10 or maybe even higher QB some think hes not top 15 or maybe even easily replaceable.

So between those 2 options you get a lot of varying opinions on what we should do about Kirk and what he means to this team.

well letting him go means a step back . you have to put resources into a position that is set at the expense of other needs . . sorry colt mccoy , matt mcgloin , jay interception cutler , tyrod taylor any mccown , gino smith kaep gabbert , manuel , nick foles , ryan fitzpatrick or any rookie coming out is not going to get us more then 6 wins
KC puts us in the 10 win range , money isnt an issue ,the size of the contract will come down to earth in 2 years and will be a bargain

with a sound defense we can compete for super bowls with in 2 years , if we dump him add 2 more years to 4

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

It really is amazing that some here still consider Kirk nothing more than "functional". While I agree won/loss records are not fair if we are going to use that tool let's look at the 5 win team Kirk inherited and turned into winning seasons.

But all this is silly, this is all about should we retain Kirk Cousins. As Dad said if Stymie can produce another viable alternative at the position then he should state his case.

 

[ehb5]

well letting him go means a step back . you have to put resources into a position that is set at the expense of other needs . . sorry colt mccoy , matt mcgloin , jay interception cutler , tyrod taylor any mccown , gino smith kaep gabbert , manuel , nick foles , ryan fitzpatrick or any rookie coming out is not going to get us more then 6 wins
KC puts us in the 10 win range , money isnt an issue ,the size of the contract will come down to earth in 2 years and will be a bargain

with a sound defense we can compete for super bowls with in 2 years , if we dump him add 2 more years to 4

Point is - everything you said there is an opinion. Not sure any of that is provable. You have a different view of Kirk then I do and a different idea of what is a good enough QB to build around then I do.

(I also have a big problem with throwing Jay Cutler and Tyrod into that group of names and saying they cant get us more than 6 wins while kirk gets us 10 but thats another story).

 

[skinsdad62]

Point is - everything you said there is an opinion. Not sure any of that is provable. You have a different view of Kirk then I do and a different idea of what is a good enough QB to build around then I do.

(I also have a big problem with throwing Jay Cutler and Tyrod into that group of names and saying they cant get us more than 6 wins while kirk gets us 10 but thats another story).

well isnt this what it is at its basic terms . you either believe he will be the qb we want or you dont . but hey i will give cutler and taylor 8 wins

 

[Stymietee]

Problem is Sty you blow our metrics out but accept yours. I accept that W/L is important to a good QB but it cannot be a sole metric. As dad pointed we need look no further than Sonny. A HoFer who played for more far more bad teams than good teams. That could be re-written to say that despite Sonny being such a good QB he played on bad teams could not over come those issues.

I submitted that there were two games this past year when Cousin's led the team to the potential win but through no fault of his they lost the game. He led the team to a go ahead score with 1:05 left but the defense could not protect the lead. He led the team to a potential game winning FG but the kicker missed. So what ended up being 8-7-1 could have been 10-6.

Although I accept your metric that W/L record is important it cannot be a sole metric. The QB cannot be held responsible for defense, he cannot kick field goals or be held responsible for special teams and he cannot be held responsible for coaching. You also made him responsible for the red zone issues this year. He is not LeBron James or Kobe Bryant. In the NBA a player can dominate a game (although that is changing.) Football is the ultimate team game. You say you plated the game and if so you would know that.

BTW, did you give him credit for the good red zone stats the year before that?

Problem is Sty you blow our metrics out but accept yours. I accept that W/L is important to a good QB but it cannot be a sole metric.

I NEVER said that it was the sole metric, merely the most important one by NFL standards. Other metrics are useful as well. In as much as dismissing others metrics and favoring my own, this is not true, however, connecting Dad's request here, When I offered my list of mid-level player who IMO might be able to duplicate or out perform Kirk, what happened? Talk about being dismissive!! This last bit is not aimed at you specifically, but rather those who did.


The QB cannot be held responsible for defense, he cannot kick field goals or be held responsible for special teams and he cannot be held responsible for coaching. You also made him responsible for the red zone issues this year. He is not LeBron James or Kobe Bryant. In the NBA a player can dominate a game (although that is changing.) Football is the ultimate team game. You say you plated the game and if so you would know that.

No argument from me on this score, however, somewhere along the line people decided that the ultimate team game needed to place a greater emphasis upon one position. He gets too much praise for wins and too much blame for losses, that is just the way it is now days. That said, I don't HAVE to accept this (which I don't) as I share my views with you guys. To me the QB is just another position on the TEAM. No more and certainly no less than any other one. Maybe this is why I'm getting the blow-back that I am, when I state that a QB can be replaced more easily than most want to believe.



BTW, did you give him credit for the good red zone stats the year before that?[/QUOTE]

Anyone who saw, read or has followed my opinion on the Red Zone metric that I posted will KNOW that I gave full credit to Kirk for being the 7th rated QB in Red Zone efficiency during the 2015 season. Again, I was asked for a metric that showed where Kirk had taken a step back during the 2016 season. I Did and it was against that offering that some seem to take offense. I suspect that, not wanting to believe that he did, played a great part in the blow-back that I received. Kind of a kill the messenger sort of thing. Oh well!!