Bruce Allen adamant that KC will be back next year

[ehb5]

no you havent , I have shown me , the names come from me , in almost every turn . and geez just how hard is it to stand by your conviction and restate the names ? i am asked to do that all the damn time and i do it . so to me its dodge , if it isnt to you then so be it however my opinion and my opinion only will take into consideration your position as being flawed if you cant give names that can can be debated and it will be stated as such

I have and Sty has. If you dont remember it or choose to ignore it then thats on you. The posts are still out there somewhere if you search.

I would love to hear what is flawed about my position though.

 

[ehb5]

The problem comes in the names that are thrown out.

Hoyer
Fitzpatrick
Taylor

The majority of the names are thrown out under the assumption that what Cousins did is some what easy to replace and it might be better to take some one elses failed experiment because it would be both cheaper and would not have us committed to Cousins. And there is always the what if factor.... as in what if we commit to cousins, pass on (insert rookie here) and they are the next (insert any one but Cousins here as long as they are considered elite or possibly elite).

This is different though. I dont agree with a lot of the names Sty throws out. But Im not gonna pretend like he hasnt named people. You wanna debate over the quality of the alternate plan be my guest. You wanna pretend there never was an alternate plan/it hasnt been addressed then you need to reread some posts.

(I realize you are criticizing the alternate plan and not pretending names werent mentioned so I dont mean this post as calling you out)

 

[Sportster 72]

Not true. Wilson and Rodgers are good and exceptional pocket passers respectively. No Kirk can never have the mobility of Russell and he just wont ever be Rodgers (nobody can be) but he COULD be Brees or Brady and Ive said this many times. He just isnt likely too because theyre all time greats.

As for style of play I would like if he created and/or bought time with his feet a little more but its not like he lacks the athleticism to do it. I think that just might be the next stage of his development and what I hope to see from him next year.

And plenty of people comp him to pocket passers. In Stys thread Matt Ryan, Brees, and Stafford seemed to be the 3 most common names. Hes been compared to Dalton before as well as a young Romo. And before the season when asked who I most compared to him I said Stafford. So no it is not rare for him to be compared to pocket passers.

You are almost spot on with what the new OC said about Cousin's and using his athleticism. Go the Redskins website and see if Matt Cavanaugh's article is still there. (It was yesterday) I am no Larry Michaels fan but listen to Cavanaugh and you will see that you and he agree to some extent.

 

[Sportster 72]

BTW I used the play he made last night where he stepped up out of trouble then moved outside the pocket and hit Beckham for a big play to illustrate that he can make those types of plays. YES I know it was one play in an exhibition game but tell Von Miller he wasn't trying to end the game and playing only half ass. He was embarrassing Bacteria. Wasn't that a show about a lion?

Anyhow Matt made a good analogy about evolution of young QBs.

 

[j_y19]

Very good point, but are we sure that the major step back that he's taken in 2016 is not where he's going to be going forward? (Red Zone efficiency in 2015 7th....in 2016 17th)

What major step back? Red zone? You put that all on him?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

There are 27 pages to this thread. There are about 20 threads visible on the first page of our board. Each one of us has a number of posts per day in our history.

I can't believe I am actually seeing 2 posters say "I already provided those names, find it yourself" as a response. What a couple of children.

 

[Breed]

I submitted that there were two games this past year when Cousin's led the team to the potential win but through no fault of his they lost the game. He led the team to a go ahead score with 1:05 left but the defense could not protect the lead. He led the team to a potential game winning FG but the kicker missed. So what ended up being 8-7-1 could have been 10-6.

That 10-6 could've been 11-5 had Cousins not missed 3 TDs and threw a terrible RZ INT in the first Dallas game.

9-6-1 and playoff bound works ff instead of unnecessarily throwing that pass DRC picked in the Giants game. Cuz does damn near anything else except fumble on that play.

Or 8-7-1 goes to 7-8-1 if Wentz throws a TD pass on the play that RK strip-sacked him.

What if Cravens drops the Eli pass he picked and on the next play. Eli hits Beckham down the seasom for a TD.

We're likely not even talking about Hopkins missed FG against Cincy. If Norman holds on to just one of the pick 6s that he dropped earlier in the game

We probably beat Det, but at worst the game goes into OT. If Matt Jones doesn't cause himself to fumble at the Lions 2 td ln.

And the coaches are far from blameless. Barry had to have his arm twisted metaphorically speaking just to play Cravens. Which fallas into Barry's wheelhouse, at least imo, of playing too safe or not too lose.

Even as the evidence mounted that the Skins were a better team. both offensively and defensively, when the offense was a more balanced attack. McVay or Gruden or both can probably be be taken to task on that.

I personally thought we didn't do enough or do it soon enough as it concerns Jones' fumbling which was an issue going back to 2015. And why did Mack Brown only get 8 carries in 9 games? Not saying he was the solution to the running woes as the season neared its end. but it wouldn't have hurt to kick the tires more than 8 times in 9 games.

And on and on and on. The Skins won as a team and lost as a team. Skins players came up big at times and not so big at other times.

 

[Breed]

Anyone who saw, read or has followed my opinion on the Red Zone metric that I posted will KNOW that I gave full credit to Kirk for being the 7th rated QB in Red Zone efficiency during the 2015 season.

I remember this ^^^^^^^

Again, I was asked for a metric that showed where Kirk had taken a step back during the 2016 season. I Did and it was against that offering that some seem to take offense. I suspect that, not wanting to believe that he did, played a great part in the blow-back that I received. Kind of a kill the messenger sort of thing. Oh well!!

I remembered this as well, at least the providing proof part that Kirk had fell off in 2016 as it relates to 2015.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

For everyone's benefit

Here's a list of some options out there in 2017, some obviously stop gap

Tyrod
Cutler
Garoppolo
Hoyer
Case Keenum
McCown
Glennon
Kap
Romo
Siemian
McCarron

 

[ehb5]

There are 27 pages to this thread. There are about 20 threads visible on the first page of our board. Each one of us has a number of posts per day in our history.

I can't believe I am actually seeing 2 posters say "I already provided those names, find it yourself" as a response. What a couple of children.

He says ever so maturely. *eyeroll*

The reason he can find it himself is because it has been stated SEVERAL times directly to him. Yet still he claims that we are dodging. Anybody who thinks Sty or I are dodging a question clearly hasnt been paying much attention considering neither of us has shied away from arguments on here.

But if you want to rush to judgements about people based on 2 posts then be my guest. Id just be a little careful about calling people children when you clearly dont know what youre talking about. You may make yourself look like an ass.

 

[Sharkinva]

For everyone's benefit

Here's a list of some options out there in 2017, some obviously stop gap

Tyrod
Cutler
Garoppolo
Hoyer
Case Keenum
McCown
Glennon
Kap
Romo
Siemian
McCarron

Thanks Cali.

Now as to this list, most are roundly considered a step backwards. Some are considered a shot in the dark at best. And others are still under contract and might not be available even via trade. If the thought is.. under no circumstances can we pay Kirk the way some are speculating.... any of the names on this list will do. If the thought is, any of these names could probably do what Kirk did, maybe a 3rd of them could.. maybe. If the idea is that any one on this list is an upgrade at a lower price.... debatable.

At the end of the day, if any of them aside from maybe Romo was considered as capable as or better than Kirk, none of them save for Romo would be available to us in any case.

 

[ehb5]

Thanks Cali.

Now as to this list, most are roundly considered a step backwards. Some are considered a shot in the dark at best. And others are still under contract and might not be available even via trade. If the thought is.. under no circumstances can we pay Kirk the way some are speculating.... any of the names on this list will do. If the thought is, any of these names could probably do what Kirk did, maybe a 3rd of them could.. maybe. If the idea is that any one on this list is an upgrade at a lower price.... debatable.

At the end of the day, if any of them aside from maybe Romo was considered as capable as or better than Kirk, none of them save for Romo would be available to us in any case.

I would posit if Kirk doesn't return then it doesn't really matter who on that list we get. I prefer some to others but none of them would be anything more than a 1 or 2 year fix (and that's if they'd even be tha) most likely. Obviously I'd prefer to just keep Kirk than go down that road so hopefully it's a moot point.

 

[Sharkinva]

I would posit if Kirk doesn't return then it doesn't really matter who on that list we get. I prefer some to others but none of them would be anything more than a 1 or 2 year fix (and that's if they'd even be tha) most likely. Obviously I'd prefer to just keep Kirk than go down that road so hopefully it's a moot point.

IF we went with any one off that list, it would have a direct impact on the teams draft plans starting now. The only player on that list that might not change our draft plans would be Grappalo. But any one else and you are most likely looking at drafting a QB this year, or in 2018 latest. Aside from Grappalo, most on that list are stopgaps to either start while a rookie is brought up to speed. Or Stop gaps to play this season while we try and figure out who we could draft next year. I know Sty kind of has the old Viagra salute for Tyrod Taylor. But lets be honest, his playing style does not fit what our offense is designed to do. So aside from a total rework back to what we did in 2012, he isnt really a fit either.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Hush now Ross

 

[Sharkinva]

So here is an oddball question, IM sure its been asked before.

But seriously.... forgetting about the money factor for a second.

Is there any one on that list you would prefer to trust this team with over the next 3-5 years or more than you would Cousins.

 

[ehb5]

IF we went with any one off that list, it would have a direct impact on the teams draft plans starting now. The only player on that list that might not change our draft plans would be Grappalo. But any one else and you are most likely looking at drafting a QB this year, or in 2018 latest. Aside from Grappalo, most on that list are stopgaps to either start while a rookie is brought up to speed. Or Stop gaps to play this season while we try and figure out who we could draft next year. I know Sty kind of has the old Viagra salute for Tyrod Taylor. But lets be honest, his playing style does not fit what our offense is designed to do. So aside from a total rework back to what we did in 2012, he isnt really a fit either.

I mean if Kirk leaves thats having an impact on our draft plans. I might argue it shouldnt technically change that much but realistically it would. I think youre a little too hard on Tyrod.

 

[ehb5]

So here is an oddball question, IM sure its been asked before.

But seriously.... forgetting about the money factor for a second.

Is there any one on that list you would prefer to trust this team with over the next 3-5 years or more than you would Cousins.

Nope.

 

[skinsdad62]

ebb5 my response was directed at STY not you , you entered that arena "calling BS " my every response was directed at that

again so someone doesnt have to go back through a kazillion threads i asked for a name ." i got back that in 1977 i mentioned player X ( exagerration ) i spoke about as a guy "

now if you have conviction (sty or i guess you now ) it should be fairly easy to say I.E. cutler or romo or anybody right off the top without the song and dance

now i am sorry but i feel that is an easy question to answer on any occasion even if its been asked a thousand times and answered 999 times

now if it cant be done , then perhaps your position is weak (either you or sty or any other defender of the faith )

 

[Sharkinva]

I mean if Kirk leaves thats having an impact on our draft plans. I might argue it shouldnt technically change that much but realistically it would. I think youre a little too hard on Tyrod.

I think Tyrod has some ability. But I dont see Jay implementing the Read Option as a staple of our offense. I think he hangs onto the ball a little longer than our coach would like. So I see him as a shitty fit in DC and he would directly lead to another coaching change which logically we need to avoid if at all possible. Now i know some are probably hoping Gruden gets fired, but figuring in that we have no clue IF a decent HC will be available AND want to come to DC next year....

Be careful what you wish for. Cause there is always a Steve Spurrior/Chip Kelly/Jim Zorn waiting in the wings.

 

[ehb5]

I think Tyrod has some ability. But I dont see Jay implementing the Read Option as a staple of our offense. I think he hangs onto the ball a little longer than our coach would like. So I see him as a shitty fit in DC and he would directly lead to another coaching change which logically we need to avoid if at all possible. Now i know some are probably hoping Gruden gets fired, but figuring in that we have no clue IF a decent HC will be available AND want to come to DC next year....

Be careful what you wish for. Cause there is always a Steve Spurrior/Chip Kelly/Jim Zorn waiting in the wings.

Dont look at me lol. Im confused as to how Gruden should be on thin ice.