Bruce Allen adamant that KC will be back next year

[Stymietee]

joe kapp started a super bowl , as did darlye lamonica ryp , thiesman , doug williams , billy kilmer earl morrall stan humphries . trent dilfer brad johnson jim mcmahon , craig morton jeff hosteteler , tony eason jim plunket , ron jaworski , washed up johnny unitas , washed up peyton manning , vince farragamo . ken anderson , david woodley , niel o donnell , chris chandler , brad johnson , kerry collins , rich gannon jake delhomme . matt hasselback rex grossman colin kaepernick

that is 30 qbs who have started super bowls who were avg or even below

hardly a handful

Real interesting list there Dad, I was going to quote it but decided that my response might be seen as simply asking the associated question. Hope that everyone sees it and responds. (New thread)

 

[Stymietee]

Found this one on the comments section of WP article. Good catch by this poster:

As to #3, its all but impossible to predict college QB success in the pros. Just for grins, last year my son and I spent an hour tracking the fate of 1st and 2nd round QB picks over the last 20+ years. It's it's an ugly record. Bottom line is getting a good QB via the first two rounds is a crapshoot at best; getting a great one is a miracle.

1994 - Trent Dilfer and...wait for it...Heath Shuler.
1995 - Kerry Collins, Todd Collins, Kordell Stewart
1996 - Tony Banks
1997 - Jim Druckenmiller, Jake Plummer
1998 - Peyton Manning (#1), Ryan Leaf (#2), Charlie Batch
1999 - Tim Couch (#1), Donovan McNabb (#2), Akili Smith (#3), Daunte Culpepper, Shaun King
2000 - Chad Pennington
2001 - Michael Vick (#1), Drew Brees, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasasosopo
2002 - David Carr (#1), Joey Harrington (#3), Patrick Ramsey
2003 - Carson Palmer (#1), Byron Leftwich
2004 - Eli Manning (#1), Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, J. P. Losman
2005 - Alex Smith (#1), Aaron Rogers, Jason Campbell
2006 - Vince Young (#3), Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
2007 - JaMarcus Russell (#1), Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
2008 - Matt Ryan (#3), Joe Flacco, Brian Brohme, Chad Henne
2009 - Matthew Stafford (#1), Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Pat White
2010 - Sam Bradford (#1), Tim Tebow
2011 - Cam Newton (#1), Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick
2012 - Andrew Luck (#1), Robert Griffin III (#2), Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weedon, Brock Osweiler
2013 - EJ Manuel, Geno Smith
2014 - Blake Bortles (#3), Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garropolo
2015 - Jameis Winston (#1), Marcus Mariota (#2)

I count maybe 5 - 6 greats in there, depending how one defines great, and maybe 10 good/very good, maybe another half-dozen serviceable, a lot of total busts. That's out of 72 guys drafted in the first two rounds. For every Peyton Manning there's a JaMarcus Russell....


Wow - for anyone advocating trading Cousins & using the draft to find his replacement you may want to think twice about that.

Great list and interesting historical perspective, but let me ask... Isn't to which team they are drafted a bigger factor than their actual performance? To me a poor fit equals disaster every time. Take the supposedly "great" Peyton Manning for example, who was really in line to be another in a long line of QB's who put up glowing numbers but without the huge assist from the NFL would not have won a SB. Thanks!

 

[Sportster 72]

Clearly there are certain great QBs who have won multiple SB titles. Starr, Griese, Bradshaw, Montana, P. Manning, Big Ben and Roth. That is a lot of Super Bowl wins.

Let's look at it from simply a Redskin fans view point. Theismann, Williams, Rypien. Theismann was the closest to being called elite but I don't think anyone would give him that title.

dad's list proves that you do not have to have an elite QB, it also proves that if you want to win multiple titles you do need an elite or at least just a rung below that to win multiple titles. So I say the same thing I said yesterday "after 25 years I will take ONE Super Bowl win." After that we can worry about more.

 

[Sportster 72]

I know some here say "well throwing for a lot of yards does not make you a good QB." Tell these guys that: Drew Brees (6); Stafford (2); Peyton Manning (1); Tom Brady (1); Dan Marino (1); Ben Roethlisberger (1) Matt Ryan (1) and Eli Manning (1) ----- Cousin's has the 15th highest single season passing record. The guys I listed are the men above him. The number beside their name is the number of times they threw for more than Cousins.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Clearly there are certain great QBs who have won multiple SB titles. Starr, Griese, Bradshaw, Montana, P. Manning, Big Ben and Roth. That is a lot of Super Bowl wins.

Let's look at it from simply a Redskin fans view point. Theismann, Williams, Rypien. Theismann was the closest to being called elite but I don't think anyone would give him that title.

dad's list proves that you do not have to have an elite QB, it also proves that if you want to win multiple titles you do need an elite or at least just a rung below that to win multiple titles. So I say the same thing I said yesterday "after 25 years I will take ONE Super Bowl win." After that we can worry about more.

Not sure how many more times I need to say this but nobody is arguing you have to have an elite QB. I said you need a good one, top 10-12 and I think Kirk falls in that group. This is especiallyy true in today's NFL where the rules have turned it into a passing league and having a good QB is imparative.

This is why we need to look at the situation today, comparing today's game with the Joe Kapp era is just stupid. It's a passing game now and for that you need a good QB now more than ever. But even going back to the Kapp era the facts clearly show the average QB system is much more of a long shot. The numbers have been posted for all to see once you eliminate multiple Pro Bowl QBs from the "average" list it's clear they are not the rule they are the exception.

There are very very few teams who remain in contention year after year with an average QB. Anyone care to debate this fact? I can count exactly one: the Ravens where there are a whole lot of examples the other way. Too many to list including the Giants and Hawks who have good but not elite QBs because as I have said elite is not necessary. However the better tue QB the better youtr chances, see Kansas City and Cincinatti. Also take a look at the Jags with the #7 defense and a shithead at QB. And make no mistake if we lose Kirk that very well be the level of QB we end up with.

 

[BeaReylo]

And if they do sign him.. the bitching on how we over paid him will be epic IM sure.

It's not my money or coming out of my pocket so I could give two figs how much his contract is.

Bloody hail this vocal minority against keeping Cuz are trying to make it seem like we're keeping Rex sodding Grossman.

 

[Sportster 72]

I think I argued for both sides so maybe you want to unbatch your panties.

 

[Breed]

Found this one on the comments section of WP article. Good catch by this poster:

As to #3, its all but impossible to predict college QB success in the pros. Just for grins, last year my son and I spent an hour tracking the fate of 1st and 2nd round QB picks over the last 20+ years. It's it's an ugly record. Bottom line is getting a good QB via the first two rounds is a crapshoot at best; getting a great one is a miracle.

1994 - Trent Dilfer and...wait for it...Heath Shuler.
1995 - Kerry Collins, Todd Collins, Kordell Stewart
1996 - Tony Banks
1997 - Jim Druckenmiller, Jake Plummer
1998 - Peyton Manning (#1), Ryan Leaf (#2), Charlie Batch
1999 - Tim Couch (#1), Donovan McNabb (#2), Akili Smith (#3), Daunte Culpepper, Shaun King
2000 - Chad Pennington
2001 - Michael Vick (#1), Drew Brees, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasasosopo
2002 - David Carr (#1), Joey Harrington (#3), Patrick Ramsey
2003 - Carson Palmer (#1), Byron Leftwich
2004 - Eli Manning (#1), Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, J. P. Losman
2005 - Alex Smith (#1), Aaron Rogers, Jason Campbell
2006 - Vince Young (#3), Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
2007 - JaMarcus Russell (#1), Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
2008 - Matt Ryan (#3), Joe Flacco, Brian Brohme, Chad Henne
2009 - Matthew Stafford (#1), Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Pat White
2010 - Sam Bradford (#1), Tim Tebow
2011 - Cam Newton (#1), Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick
2012 - Andrew Luck (#1), Robert Griffin III (#2), Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weedon, Brock Osweiler
2013 - EJ Manuel, Geno Smith
2014 - Blake Bortles (#3), Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garropolo
2015 - Jameis Winston (#1), Marcus Mariota (#2)

I count maybe 5 - 6 greats in there, depending how one defines great, and maybe 10 good/very good, maybe another half-dozen serviceable, a lot of total busts. That's out of 72 guys drafted in the first two rounds. For every Peyton Manning there's a JaMarcus Russell....


Wow - for anyone advocating trading Cousins & using the draft to find his replacement you may want to think twice about that.

While what you say has some serious merit. It also looks like the chances are much better now than in the past. I saw Drew Brees being interviewed the other day and he made an interesting observation. Opining that college players of today, at all positions, are much better prepared to enter the NFL and even entering college from high school than ever before. Speaking on QBs he said they're playing 7 on 7, being schooloed in QB-speak and learning different systems at a youngder age than ever before.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

 

[countryroads316]

120 million maybe more screw that he is not worth it

 

[Sharkinva]

120 million maybe more screw that he is not worth it

Gimme a better option.

 

[countryroads316]

Gimme a better option.

Hell we could pry Jimmy Garoppolo from the Patriots for a 2nd round pick and trade Cousins to the 49ers for a 1st rounder thats just off the top of my head

 

[Sharkinva]

Hell we could pry Jimmy Garoppolo from the Patriots for a 2nd round pick and trade Cousins to the 49ers for a 1st rounder thats just off the top of my head

Except that the Patriots are reportedly shopping Grap for a first rounder. And he might be the next Brock OSwiler. Aside from that.. .AWESOME!!!

 

[countryroads316]

Except that the Patriots are reportedly shopping Grap for a first rounder. And he might be the next Brock OSwiler. Aside from that.. .AWESOME!!!

There are reports saying they will not get a 1st for Garoppolo and he played pretty good while Brady was suspended and being around Brady he should have a lot of knowledge from him and Belichick

 

[skinsdad62]

garrapolo is unproven hell he didnt last 4 games

 

[Sharkinva]

There are reports saying they will not get a 1st for Garoppolo and he played pretty good while Brady was suspended and being around Brady he should have a lot of knowledge from him and Belichick

So lets roll with your theory for a moment.

Lets say they cant get a first.

We deal Kirk and then go to the Patriots. They decide they would rather hold him than take less than they want to get for him.

We dont have Kirk, and cant get Grap for less than a first.... Who plays QB for us??

Oh thats right.. McCoy. Brilliant.

 

[countryroads316]

So lets roll with your theory for a moment.

Lets say they cant get a first.

We deal Kirk and then go to the Patriots. They decide they would rather hold him than take less than they want to get for him.

We dont have Kirk, and cant get Grap for less than a first.... Who plays QB for us??

Oh thats right.. McCoy. Brilliant.

ton of options with having 2 first round picks spend no less than 90 percent of that free agency money on defense

 

[skinsdad62]

ton of options with having 2 first round picks spend no less than 90 percent of that free agency money on defense

ok so who do we get ?

 

[Stymietee]

You guys are relentless with that BS about who do we get to play QB. First of all we are and 8-7-1 team down a bit from the 9-7 team of 2015. So it's not like this is a perennial playoff team right now. Second, and as important, Kirk is not an exceptional player, so logically, it's not going to take an exceptional one to replace him if it comes to that (which I doubt) That said, there are plenty of NFL level non exceptional QB's in the league.

I've heard the tired argument that basically says go with what you know. What's that? That Kirk is functional? Better than anything that we have had in any number of years? Big whoop! that speaks more to the agonizing dysfunction of the organization than anything else. Maybe he's a record setter? yeah that's something and good for HIM but honestly, how is this team any better than the worse teams in the NFL when the question is playoff wins? Wanna talk about possibilities, as in, IF we had a BETTER defense, or a more powerful running game/ Offensive line, fine let's talk about that as well. Guess what ....WE DON"T!! It is just as likely that another QB can step in here and perform just as well or better, with an improved Defense, a more powerful running game/Offensive line because LESS will be asked of him as it would Kirk. Additionally, There is no guarantee that Cousins will bounce back from the giant step back that he's taken in 2016 (see: Red Zone proficiency). I know, I know, with an improved running game he might...that's the argument right? Well fuck, pay me 1/3 of what you wanna pay Kirk, I can hand the ball off to a Running back.

 

[Sportster 72]

I think it was go with the guy that has been a top 7 QB the past two years Sty. Funny the guys who didn't like him before are still crying their whining asses off.