SUBBAN SIGNS 8 YEAR 72M CONTRACT WITH THE HABS

[Bloody Brian Burke]

is that sarcasm? Im not really sure as Im not sure how MLB is doing in that aspect

Since introducing the cap, the NHL has had 13 different teams contest the Stanley Cup Finals. Assuming the Cards don't make the World Series this fall for the sake of this argument, MLB will have had 11 different teams make the World Series in that same time. Both leagues also have only two teams that have won two championships in that span. That seems pretty competitive to me.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

MLB got lucky in that networks found they need live scheduling due to the streaming (or whatever) of shows and who better to give it to them than a game that plays just about every day all summer long (and spring and fall) so those in the largest markets have huge payrolls and the Milwaukee's Kansas City's and Minnesota's don't. It is an uneven playing field and anybody who wants that system is crazy. It'll be like society the upper class and the working stiff and seeing as we are all pretty well working stiffs we know how far apart we are socially

St. Louis is considered a small market MLB team with a limited payroll and they are competitive every year. This is the first season in some time where Tampa has been an afterthought, and Oakland has been making a go of it almost nonstop since 2000. Milwaukee is a huge baseball town. Minnesota made the playoffs 6 times in 9 years from 2002-2010, and Kansas City had a dickish owner but now seems to be on the right path. System seems to be working fine.

Also, not like the local TV deals are limited to baseball. I seem to recall a certain Canadian broadcaster giving the Ottawa Senators a $400 million TV deal lasting 12 years, which is a fortune for what is probably Canada's weakest NHL market.

 

[phoenixrising]

Since introducing the cap, the NHL has had 13 different teams contest the Stanley Cup Finals. Assuming the Cards don't make the World Series this fall for the sake of this argument, MLB will have had 11 different teams make the World Series in that same time. Both leagues also have only two teams that have won two championships in that span. That seems pretty competitive to me.

Or they've all sunk to the same level. But it's true a different winner every year, why even the Bruins had a chance. Wonders never cease.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

You lose credibility because you (1) say every contract every off season is too high, (2) refuse to acknowledge that free agency is not a perfect market but relative to what is available, and (3) refuse to take into account that the changing salary cap size impacts the total dollar amount from season-to-season.

Contracts are generally NOT perfectly in lockstep with value, but that doesn't mean they aren't good contracts.

They didn't overpay him beyond words. They gave him slightly more than what he deserved, but given the other options, how was this a bad idea for a guy who is both the most talented guy on the team and the heart of the team as well? At the end of the day, they are a playoff team with Subban and not one without him. If they overpaid him by a million, they make that up hosting one playoff game.

Sorry, but I don't believe Subban should be the 3rd highest paid player in the entire league. If you don't believe his contract is going to impact every team, think again.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Sorry, but I don't believe Subban should be the 3rd highest paid player in the entire league. If you don't believe his contract is going to impact every team, think again.

But why is your immediate conclusion that Subban is overpaid, rather than that some of those underneath him are being underpaid? If Crosby were to sign for $1 million dollars for some dumb reason, would that mean that no one else should be paid any more than that?

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

But why is your immediate conclusion that Subban is overpaid, rather than that some of those underneath him are being underpaid? If Crosby were to sign for $1 million dollars for some dumb reason, would that mean that no one else should be paid any more than that?

It's simple, Subban isn't the best defenseman in the league. Therefore he shouldn't be paid more money than every single defenseman. The fact that he's paid more than everyone, but two players in the entire league is ridiculous.

All Montreal had to do was look at the 5 highest paid defenseman in the league & offer him a bit less. Instead they made Subban the 3rd highest paid player in the entire league.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Sorry, but I don't believe Subban should be the 3rd highest paid player in the entire league. If you don't believe his contract is going to impact every team, think again.

I say again, after Prickey Henderson was no longer the highest paid player and some other guy was earning more than him, Prickey said something like "I just don't think I can play hard for only a million $$".

You sign long term for security.

Some other guy is always going to make more than you in time.

It's the way of the world. And it isn't new.

 

[DragonfromTO]

It's simple, Subban isn't the best defenseman in the league. Therefore he shouldn't be paid more money than every single defenseman. The fact that he's paid more than everyone, but two players in the entire league is ridiculous.

All Montreal had to do was look at the 5 highest paid defenseman in the league & offer him a bit less. Instead they made Subban the 3rd highest paid player in the entire league.

You still didn't answer my hypothetical. If Crosby were to sign a $1 million dollar contract, would every team that paid a player more than that be "overpaying"?

 

[DragonfromTO]

It's simple, Subban isn't the best defenseman in the league. Therefore he shouldn't be paid more money than every single defenseman. The fact that he's paid more than everyone, but two players in the entire league is ridiculous.

All Montreal had to do was look at the 5 highest paid defenseman in the league & offer him a bit less. Instead they made Subban the 3rd highest paid player in the entire league.

And locked up a superstar from age 25 to 32 in the process. Which is exactly the kind of thing that teams are/should be trying to do.

It's not about what others are making, it's about what he himself could command in the market. That is linked to what others are making of course, but it's not entirely dictated by it.

 

[dash]

And locked up a superstar from age 25 to 32 in the process. Which is exactly the kind of thing that teams are/should be trying to do.

This. So much this.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

This. So much this.

And over time it won't be that expensive.

Unlike the stupid contract they gave Robooby in Vancouver.

 

[dash]

And over time it won't be that expensive.

Unlike the stupid contract they gave Robooby in Vancouver.

That contract sucked.

 

[DragonfromTO]

It's simple, Subban isn't the best defenseman in the league. Therefore he shouldn't be paid more money than every single defenseman. The fact that he's paid more than everyone, but two players in the entire league is ridiculous.

All Montreal had to do was look at the 5 highest paid defenseman in the league & offer him a bit less. Instead they made Subban the 3rd highest paid player in the entire league.

So since you suggested it I looked at the 5 highest paid (AAV) defensemen (besides Subban of course) to see how the contracts compare.

1. Weber signed for $110 million over 14 years at age 26. So that's basically the same as giving him Subban's contract when he's a year older, plus another 6 year deal for $38 million from age 34 to 39.

2. Suter signed for $98 million over 13 years at age 27. So Subban's contract 2 years older, plus another 5 year deal for $26 million from age 35 to 39.

3. Letang signed for $58 million over 8 years at age 27. So same term, but 2 years older and less on his resume.

4. Campbell signed for $57.143 million over 8 years at age 29. Same term, 4 years older and once again a weaker player with less on his resume.

5. Doughty signed for $56 million over 8 years at age 21. So we've got one that's clearly better, but that's partly because it was signed before he had as much leverage, the Kings locked him up coming off of his ELC and were buying out cheaper years. If you look at what Subban made in his first two years after his ELC you get $5.75 million. Add in what he would have gotten in arbitration this season (let's err on the high side and assume Subban would have won and use his offer of $8.5 million) and that gives us $14.25 million, for years that the Kings instead chose to pay Doughty $21 million for. Because they knew that it was more important to get their superstar's best years locked in.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

That contract sucked.

I kind of liked it....

For my own selfish reasons.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

This. So much this.

Here's the issue. Subban was a RFA. Which obviously is very different from being an UFA. The Canadiens had plenty of leverage due to this fact. They didn't have to make him the 3rd highest paid player in the entire league. It's not like when Philadelphia gave Weber an offersheet & Nashville chose to match it. I realize he's their best defenseman & a very important part of their team, but they didn't have to give him the contract they did.

 

[Comeds]

Here's the issue. Subban was a RFA. Which obviously is very different from being an UFA. The Canadiens had plenty of leverage due to this fact. They didn't have to make him the 3rd highest paid player in the entire league. It's not like when Philadelphia gave Weber an offersheet & Nashville chose to match it. I realize he's their best defenseman & a very important part of their team, but they didn't have to give him the contract they did.

Yeah, they could have signed him for less for two years or gone to arbitration twice. Then for the next two years they might have an unhappy player who bolts when he gets the chance. Theres a real win win for everyone.

You can asses what you think his value is or what the Canadiens should have done, but all national articles I read before and after the contract signing were pretty clear in the fact that it was pretty much assured he was going to get 8 million or more. If its such a terrible contract you are bitching about it two weeks later, do you have any national sources that agree with you? Not a local beat writer or a fan blog but an actual writer?

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Here's the issue. Subban was a RFA. Which obviously is very different from being an UFA. The Canadiens had plenty of leverage due to this fact. They didn't have to make him the 3rd highest paid player in the entire league. It's not like when Philadelphia gave Weber an offersheet & Nashville chose to match it. I realize he's their best defenseman & a very important part of their team, but they didn't have to give him the contract they did.

I don't think they did. They low-balled him on the last contract. Subban goes out and wins a Norris Trophy. They then go to arbitration and, if they don't resolve the contract, they do it all again next year.

After Subban has been low-balled on a contract and bad-mouthed twice in arbitration hearings, how eager would he be to sign with that team again?

The Habs knew this and knew that they would either have to trade him at deadline time or lose him for nothing when he becomes a UFA, so they had to pay big bucks to lock him up. Their leverage extended for this season and next only and they chose to take a longer-sighted view of the situation.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

I don't think they did. They low-balled him on the last contract. Subban goes out and wins a Norris Trophy. They then go to arbitration and, if they don't resolve the contract, they do it all again next year.

After Subban has been low-balled on a contract and bad-mouthed twice in arbitration hearings, how eager would he be to sign with that team again?

The Habs knew this and knew that they would either have to trade him at deadline time or lose him for nothing when he becomes a UFA, so they had to pay big bucks to lock him up. Their leverage extended for this season and next only and they chose to take a longer-sighted view of the situation.

He'd be an RFA after this season as well. Which means Montreal still has plenty of leverage. What is Subban going to do, demand to be traded? I have no problem with Subban getting a contract that would have put him in the lower part of the top 5 defenseman in the league. There's no way he deserves to be the 3rd highest paid player in the ENTIRE NHL.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

He'd be an RFA after this season as well. Which means Montreal still has plenty of leverage. What is Subban going to do, demand to be traded? I have no problem with Subban getting a contract that would have put him in the lower part of the top 5 defenseman in the league. There's no way he deserves to be the 3rd highest paid player in the ENTIRE NHL.

I thought the references to doing it again next year and being bad-mouthed twice in arbitration would have pretty well communicated that I knew he'd still be an RFA after this year. But whatever.

And they have to pay a premium to get over PK being pissed off. He's already been low-balled twice and would have been low-balled again next year as an RFA. Then when he became a UFA, he'd get a $10M+/year offer from another team (amount depending on what the cap does between now and then) and the Habs would have absolutely nothing.

They deserved to overpay for their mistake in the last contract negotiation.

 

[IPostedWhat]

100!