SUBBAN SIGNS 8 YEAR 72M CONTRACT WITH THE HABS

[awaz]

that's a big contract.

 

[SLY]

that's a big contract.

That's what she said.

 

[slapshot]

Same guy who got turned inside out by a few Rangers in the next series?

True...............but the Bruin series was worth a few million.............

 

[Abe Vigoda]

True...............but the Bruin series was worth a few million.............

true...but keep in mind no more mulligans after this

 

[Comeds]

true...but keep in mind no more mulligans after this

Well no defensemen is perfect except for MacD so there will be mistakes.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Well no defensemen is perfect except for MacD so there will be mistakes.

It was always going to be tough for MacD to live up to the sterling reputation of the guy he was traded for.

 

[Comeds]

It was always going to be tough for MacD to live up to the sterling reputation of the guy he was traded for.

No argument there.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

Well no defensemen is perfect except for MacD so there will be mistakes.

I appreciate you acknowledging excellence; simply citing the disparity in pay

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Same guy who got turned inside out by a few Rangers in the next series?

The whole team fell flat.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

I understand why the Canadiens gave him such a long contract. They didn't have a choice. Without him their defense becomes awful. The biggest reason they lost in the conference finals wasn't goaltending. It was the fact they didn't have enough depth on defense. The money is my issue. There's no way P.K. Subban is the third best player in the league. Salaries have become crazy.

 

[Comeds]

I understand why the Canadiens gave him such a long contract. They didn't have a choice. Without him their defense becomes awful. The biggest reason they lost in the conference finals wasn't goaltending. It was the fact they didn't have enough depth on defense. The money is my issue. There's no way P.K. Subban is the third best player in the league. Salaries have become crazy.

But salaries do not exactly compare to each other like that. The cap goes up, allowable max contracts go up, and overall salaries go up. You cannot really compare contracts signed one season with ones signed in previous seasons and think that an larger recent one means anyone thinks that player is better than a player signed years ago with a lesser contract.

I do think their defense is below average without PK. The reason they lost the series was the loss of Price. He was the only reason they made the playoffs. Without him the Habs played a ultra conservative style to cover up for Tokarski numerous short comings. They did that to the benefit of Tokarski but to the detriment of their offense.

 

[evolver115]

But salaries do not exactly compare to each other like that. The cap goes up, allowable max contracts go up, and overall salaries go up. You cannot really compare contracts signed one season with ones signed in previous seasons and think that an larger recent one means anyone thinks that player is better than a player signed years ago with a lesser contract.

I do think their defense is below average without PK. The reason they lost the series was the loss of Price. He was the only reason they made the playoffs. Without him the Habs played a ultra conservative style to cover up for Tokarski numerous short comings. They did that to the benefit of Tokarski but to the detriment of their offense.

Agree with the bolded.

I think a better way to say it is you cannot compare contracts signed under the current CBA (Subban) and then put them up against contracts signed under the former CBA (Keith, Doughty, Suter).

Of course those deals look like bargains compared to Subban's. But they had the benefit of the loophole that is now closed with frontloading contracts to drop the overall cap hit per season.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

But salaries do not exactly compare to each other like that. The cap goes up, allowable max contracts go up, and overall salaries go up. You cannot really compare contracts signed one season with ones signed in previous seasons and think that an larger recent one means anyone thinks that player is better than a player signed years ago with a lesser contract.

I do think their defense is below average without PK. The reason they lost the series was the loss of Price. He was the only reason they made the playoffs. Without him the Habs played a ultra conservative style to cover up for Tokarski numerous short comings. They did that to the benefit of Tokarski but to the detriment of their offense.

Adding to your first point, look what Orpik got in Washington.

Secondly, I dont think you played THAT conservatively. You got blown out in game 1. The Canadiens also ran into arguably the toughest top 6 Dmen. You also cant discount, the fact of NYR getting a lead and rolling 4 lines to the fact of you having to rely on PK for it all. He got caught more than once; I will leave the argument of whether that was fatigue or a lack of shut down D ability for another day. In addition, watch the game films. Your forwards tried to take away the walls and the Rangers just used the center of the ice on breakouts.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

But salaries do not exactly compare to each other like that. The cap goes up, allowable max contracts go up, and overall salaries go up. You cannot really compare contracts signed one season with ones signed in previous seasons and think that an larger recent one means anyone thinks that player is better than a player signed years ago with a lesser contract.

I do think their defense is below average without PK. The reason they lost the series was the loss of Price. He was the only reason they made the playoffs. Without him the Habs played a ultra conservative style to cover up for Tokarski numerous short comings. They did that to the benefit of Tokarski but to the detriment of their offense.

I don't care what the cap is or the fact that rules have changed. Subban isn't as good as Doughty, Keith, Letang & a number of others. His salary should be based on what those guys make. He shouldn't be getting the third highest amount of money per year in the ENTIRE NHL. I realize how important he is to Montreal. Without him their defense would be as bad as the Oilers. However, I view it as a bad contract. You can disagree & I have no problem with that. You have a right to your opinion just like I have a right to mine. Tokarski played better than everyone thought he would against the Rangers. The reason Montreal lost to the Rangers was their lack of depth. Emelin was never replaced. The defenseman they gave a chance to weren't good enough or ready for the NHL. Every GM in the league agrees that teams can never have enough defenseman. What happened in the Eastern Conference Finals was a cautionary tale. Their belief became reality.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

But salaries do not exactly compare to each other like that. The cap goes up, allowable max contracts go up, and overall salaries go up. You cannot really compare contracts signed one season with ones signed in previous seasons and think that an larger recent one means anyone thinks that player is better than a player signed years ago with a lesser contract.

I do think their defense is below average without PK. The reason they lost the series was the loss of Price. He was the only reason they made the playoffs. Without him the Habs played a ultra conservative style to cover up for Tokarski numerous short comings. They did that to the benefit of Tokarski but to the detriment of their offense.

Agree with the bolded.

I think a better way to say it is you cannot compare contracts signed under the current CBA (Subban) and then put them up against contracts signed under the former CBA (Keith, Doughty, Suter).

Of course those deals look like bargains compared to Subban's. But they had the benefit of the loophole that is now closed with frontloading contracts to drop the overall cap hit per season.

Fair point, but dont gloss over the fact that Montreal went with a bridge deal instead of a longer term contract and gave up the potential savings.

 

[Comeds]

Adding to your first point, look what Orpik got in Washington.

Secondly, I dont think you played THAT conservatively. You got blown out in game 1. The Canadiens also ran into arguably the toughest top 6 Dmen. You also cant discount, the fact of NYR getting a lead and rolling 4 lines to the fact of you having to rely on PK for it all. He got caught more than once; I will leave the argument of whether that was fatigue or a lack of shut down D ability for another day. In addition, watch the game films. Your forwards tried to take away the walls and the Rangers just used the center of the ice on breakouts.

I'll watch the game films and come back later.

My opinion isn't going to change. I said when Price when down that the series was over. I was surprised that it took six games. I am in no way saying the Canadiens were a great team, nor am I saying the Rangers were not. I think it was at the onset an even match up.

PK at times takes chances and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. There are plenty of players thought to be great that did the same thing. When the team is playing well he is far less offensive minded.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

I'll watch the game films and come back later.

My opinion isn't going to change. I said when Price when down that the series was over. I was surprised that it took six games. I am in no way saying the Canadiens were a great team, nor am I saying the Rangers were not. I think it was at the onset an even match up.

PK at times takes chances and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. There are plenty of players thought to be great that did the same thing. When the team is playing well he is far less offensive minded.

I dont care to debate Rags/Habs either but dont you worry the 9 mil price tag adds more pressure and gives you less spending room? I think we can all agree you would like an upgrade of Markov as his D pairing in the ideal situation. No?

 

[Comeds]

I don't care what the cap is or the fact that rules have changed. Subban isn't as good as Doughty, Keith, Letang & a number of others. His salary should be based on what those guys make. He shouldn't be getting the third highest amount of money per year in the ENTIRE NHL. I realize how important he is to Montreal. Without him their defense would be as bad as the Oilers. However, I view it as a bad contract. You can disagree & I have no problem with that. You have a right to your opinion just like I have a right to mine. Tokarski played better than everyone thought he would against the Rangers. The reason Montreal lost to the Rangers was their lack of depth. Emelin was never replaced. The defenseman they gave a chance to weren't good enough or ready for the NHL. Every GM in the league agrees that teams can never have enough defenseman. What happened in the Eastern Conference Finals was a cautionary tale. Their belief became reality.

Letang? I wont debate you on this then. Discounting the cap, cap increases, and new rules doesn't make sense to me. I do not think think he is best defensemen in the league, I never said that.

Tokarski was OK. He was a rebound machine and he didn't play some angles well. The team, average tired defense and all, made him look better than he was.

Fair point, but dont gloss over the fact that Montreal went with a bridge deal instead of a longer term contract and gave up the potential savings.

Yeah and if they would have gone with a longer deal two years ago at a higher salary (probably 5 million or so then) the same people who think they over paid now would have been saying it then. Of course that's what they should have done. They didn't, he had two more good years and here they are.

I dont care to debate Rags/Habs either but dont you worry the 9 mil price tag adds more pressure and gives you less spending room? I think we can all agree you would like an upgrade of Markov as his D pairing in the ideal situation. No?

Its just what it is. He was going to get between 8-9 million, I think most people knew and expected that. For cap purposes would I be happier if he happily signed 8 years for 40 million? Sure, but that is unrealistic.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Good signing. This is exactly the type of player that you need to lock up long term for his best years, even if you have to pay a little more.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Letang? I wont debate you on this then. Discounting the cap, cap increases, and new rules doesn't make sense to me. I do not think think he is best defensemen in the league, I never said that.

Tokarski was OK. He was a rebound machine and he didn't play some angles well. The team, average tired defense and all, made him look better than he was.



Yeah and if they would have gone with a longer deal two years ago at a higher salary (probably 5 million or so then) the same people who think they over paid now would have been saying it then.



Its just what it is. He was going to get between 8-9 million, I think most people knew and expected that. For cap purposes would I be happier if he happily signed 8 years for 40 million? Sure, but that is unrealistic.

I expected Subban to get something in the 7M to 7.5M range. Making him the third highest player in the entire league was crazy.