Tank For Trevor

[ducky]

I know nothing about college football, but isn't Fields supposed to be damn good too?? The Jets wont win with Darnold, he needs new scenery already... the toxic jets have ruined him... no, that is not saying they wont ruin Fields too...

I actually think when all is said and done that the BYU QB will go ahead of Fields.

Fields is very similar to the last Ohio State QB to be taken in the 1st round. He is better.....but he is closer to Haskell than he is to Lawrence.

I cant put my finger on it exactly but I just don't love what I have seen from Fields. I understand why people rate him as high as they do. But I don't think I would be the one to pull the trigger on him.

 

[ducky]

Bull CRAP!!! Mahomes easily makes any team in the NFL a Super Bowl contender. That’s the difference an elite QB makes.

Look at the Colts with and without Manning. Annual SB contender with him, 2 win team without. Look at the Pats with and without Brady. Annual contender with him, .500 at best without him.

And lest we forget, the Jags are just two years removed from an AFC championship appearance. Mahomes could easily have that team contending. You seriously devalue the QB position if you don’t think Mahomes wouldn’t be a difference maker there.

Go look at both those teams closer.

The Pat's this year are missing something like 5 defensive starters from last year with Brady. They took a big step backwards on offense. But they also took a big step backwards defensively. If their defense was playing like they did last year, they make the playoffs this year.

The Manning situation was a little different. They went from great (manning) to not even functional at the QB position. You put an average QB in the league on that Colts team the year that Manning leaves and they make the playoffs. Proof of that is that Luck, who still was no better than average in year 1, took the Colts to the playoffs in his first season.

And no Mahomes couldnt get the Jags to the playoffs. They are AWFUL. And you obviously don't follow football all that closely because you were predicting the Jag's as a wild card team and were bragging about it after they won their first game:

The Gardner Minshew Thread

....and go down a couple posts from yours and see someone telling you how silly that pick of a dark horse was.

 

[ducky]

Double post

 

[megalodon30]

Go look at both those teams closer.

The Pat's this year are missing something like 5 defensive starters from last year with Brady. They took a big step backwards on offense. But they also took a big step backwards defensively. If their defense was playing like they did last year, they make the playoffs this year.

The Manning situation was a little different. They went from great (manning) to not even functional at the QB position. You put an average QB in the league on that Colts team the year that Manning leaves and they make the playoffs. Proof of that is that Luck, who still was no better than average in year 1, took the Colts to the playoffs in his first season.

And no Mahomes couldnt get the Jags to the playoffs. They are AWFUL. And you obviously don't follow football all that closely because you were predicting the Jag's as a wild card team and were bragging about it after they won their first game:

The Gardner Minshew Thread

....and go down a couple posts from yours and see someone telling you how silly that pick of a dark horse was.

Okay, I was wrong about Minshew and the Jags. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be instantaneous contenders with Mahomes. NFL football is all about the QB. Like you said about the Colts losing Manning, when they had poor QBs, they were a 2 win team. You proved my point exactly.

Indy consistently won 12-13 games a year with Manning. They lost him and won 2 games. Got Luck and started winning 10-11 games a year. That’s the difference franchise QBs make.

12 wins, 14 wins, 10 wins in Manning’s final 3 healthy seasons.

Then 2 wins

Then 3 straight 11 win seasons with Luck.

It was all the exact same organization. The roster top to bottom from Manning’s last year to Luck’s first wasn’t all that different. But lose a franchise QB and all of a sudden an annual playoff contender is a 2 win team.

If the Jags had Mahomes, they’d easily be an 11-12 win team at least. Anyone that says differently doesn’t understand how impactful a truly great QB is. I’m not saying any QB could make the Jags competitive, I’m saying Mahomes, who will go down as one of the greatest of all time should he stay healthy would immediately make the Jags a contender.

 

[ducky]

If the Jags had Mahomes, they’d easily be an 11-12 win team at least. Anyone that says differently doesn’t understand how impactful a truly great QB is. I’m not saying any QB could make the Jags competitive, I’m saying Mahomes, who will go down as one of the greatest of all time should he stay healthy would immediately make the Jags a contender.

If QB is the only thing that matters in the league, tell me how Houston is 4-10.

Deshaun Watson is playing as well as any QB in the league this season especially when you consider the crap he has around him.

Thinking that QB is the only thing that matters is simpleton thinking and completely wrong.

Put Mahomes on the Jags and they are just another Houston team.

Obviously it helps GREATLY moving forward (easier to be a GM when you have a great QB in place). But every QB, no matter how good, needs a decent roster around them to win games.

 

[megalodon30]

If QB is the only thing that matters in the league, tell me how Houston is 4-10.

Deshaun Watson is playing as well as any QB in the league this season especially when you consider the crap he has around him.

Deshaun Watson isn’t elite. Deshaun Watson isn’t a difference maker. Deshaun Watson isn’t the transcendent talent that Mahomes is. Did you even read the last sentence I wrote?

Watson is a decent, young QB. But suggesting he’s on Mahomes’ level is just laughable. Mahomes is already a record setting, Super Bowl winning great. What records has Watson broken?

Watson would not make the Jags a contender. Kyler Murray wouldn’t make the Jags a contender. Ryan Tannehill wouldn’t make the Jags a contender. Mahomes absolutely would.

 

[Judge Fudge]

And lest we forget, the Jags are just two years removed from an AFC championship appearance.

Hmm I guess @rmilia1 and @ducky forgot about this....

Most of that talent on what made that team a AFC title contender is still there.

Our issues are at QB. Lawerence comes in and then bam. Instantly better

 

[megalodon30]

Hmm I guess @rmilia1 and @ducky forgot about this....

Most of that talent on what made that team a AFC title contender is still there.

Our issues are at QB. Lawerence comes in and then bam. Instantly better

Yep. No team is so devoid of NFL level talent that they couldn’t be a contender with a great QB. That’s what makes the great QBs great. They elevate their teammates. Look at Randy Moss. Easily one of the best receivers of all time but his best season came with one of the greatest of all time QBs throwing him the ball and it also led to his first SB appearance.

Is it nice to have great players along with a good QB? Yes. But is a great WR paired with a mediocre QB gonna make you a consistent SB threat? No. Is a great QB with mediocre receivers gonna be a consistent SB threat? I think both Manning and Brady proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

And of course when Manning and Brady had legitimate threats at receiver, they put up huge numbers and went to Super Bowls. Brady had the greatest season ever with Moss. Then Manning had the greatest season ever with Emmanuel Sanders and Demarius Thomas, who aren’t all time greats, but we’re formidable options in their prime.

Mahomes has legit threats with Hill and Kelce and is putting up huge numbers. Give him more average talent catching the ball and his numbers probably wouldn’t be as impressive, but he’d still be putting up enough points on the board that your team would be winning at least 11-12 games a year. Mahomes is that kind of QB. No question.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Jags have 84 million in cap and 4 of the top 50 picks. They have everything you could want to rebuild a winner, probably not year 1, but if they get a good GM Jags can turn it around quickly. Dolphins did it just recently.

Reminds of the Browns. They had that #1 in a draft where no QB was even close to the level Lawrence is on. They had 4 picks in the top 35, 5 picks in the top 70 and a ton of cap space and still will have high space 3 years later. They had to change coaches 4 times in 3 years and develop a QB...but they seemed to make it work. It usually never works out like that and we never know it could end next year but the Jags are “set up” for success making good, solid picks and getting the right FO guys as well as head coach. Odds are they fuck it but Lawrence is a guy that can carry an offense...now they have to build around him and do it as quick as possible.

They got a rookie undrafted RB last year who is a stud. They need to build up the OL and get a couple weapons. Once you have that said, you start building the defense up and quick. Having cap space can help but it can also hurt you, so FO is the HUGE that they need or it could all go to shit real quick

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Reminds of the Browns. They had that #1 in a draft where no QB was even close to the level Lawrence is on. They had 4 picks in the top 35, 5 picks in the top 70 and a ton of cap space and still will have high space 3 years later. They had to change coaches 4 times in 3 years and develop a QB...but they seemed to make it work. It usually never works out like that and we never know it could end next year but the Jags are “set up” for success making good, solid picks and getting the right FO guys as well as head coach. Odds are they fuck it but Lawrence is a guy that can carry an offense...now they have to build around him and do it as quick as possible.

They got a rookie undrafted RB last year who is a stud. They need to build up the OL and get a couple weapons. Once you have that said, you start building the defense up and quick. Having cap space can help but it can also hurt you, so FO is the HUGE that they need or it could all go to shit real quick

I agree that front office and coaching is the most important factor... But problem is that they wont settle for one until they are improving... so was it the chicken or the egg??


I mean wasnt BB a failed coach before he ended up in NE??

 

[Shanemansj13]

Hmm I guess @rmilia1 and @ducky forgot about this....

Most of that talent on what made that team a AFC title contender is still there.

Our issues are at QB. Lawerence comes in and then bam. Instantly better

I disagree about that. That 2017 team was completely different. Their best players are mostly gone from that team (except Jack) but they have added other pieces since then.

They lost Fournette, Bouye, Ramsey, Harrison, Campbell, Ngakoue, Smith, Jackson...and so on. That being said, they still have some nice pieces in place just nowhere near the talent they had that year. They had stars all over the field

 

[Shanemansj13]

I agree that front office and coaching is the most important factor... But problem is that they wont settle for one until they are improving... so was it the chicken or the egg??


I mean wasnt BB a failed coach before he ended up in NE??

Sometimes you just have to get lucky unless you get a proven guy like Mahomes got in Reid. I mean did anyone think Stefanski would be one of the best playcallers in the NFL (only one season of track record)? The great thing is Lawrence is so good you don’t have to tailor that HC to the QB, the Browns had to in away. Lawrence can be the next Luck so the main job would be the GM/FO doing their part. Do agree though no way around it you need to find a coach and it likely takes a trial run to find that

 

[Judge Fudge]

I disagree about that. That 2017 team was completely different. Their best players are mostly gone from that team (except Jack) but they have added other pieces since then.

They lost Fournette, Bouye, Ramsey, Harrison, Campbell, Ngakoue, Smith, Jackson...and so on. That being said, they still have some nice pieces in place just nowhere near the talent they had that year. They had stars all over the field

True but some pieces they have replaced

Fournette---->Robinson
Ramesy -----> Henderson
Ngakoue-----> Chassion

They have also added talent to other postions, wr, in Chalk and Shaunt jr.

I'm not saying an Automatic switch. Probably 5-7 wins in 2021, 7-9 in 2022 and then burst into the seen in 2023

 

[The Q]

True but some pieces they have replaced

Fournette---->Robinson
Ramesy -----> Henderson
Ngakoue-----> Chassion

They have also added talent to other postions, wr, in Chalk and Shaunt jr.

I'm not saying an Automatic switch. Probably 5-7 wins in 2021, 7-9 in 2022 and then burst into the seen in 2023

Just use some draft capital and cap $$ on some blockers to keep him up right and not damaged by the time you're ready and the Jags will be fine.

I really don't mind if the Jags get good solely because of the AEW connection.

now, if he sells AEW, all bets are off....

 

[Judge Fudge]

Just use some draft capital and cap $$ on some blockers to keep him up right and not damaged by the time you're ready and the Jags will be fine.

I really don't mind if the Jags get good solely because of the AEW connection.

now, if he sells AEW, all bets are off....

My team 2 bounces a bit

I started to like the Jags in 2017. Was the Lions and then, i can't remember ., then the Jags.

 

[Shanemansj13]

True but some pieces they have replaced

Fournette---->Robinson
Ramesy -----> Henderson
Ngakoue-----> Chassion

They have also added talent to other postions, wr, in Chalk and Shaunt jr.

I'm not saying an Automatic switch. Probably 5-7 wins in 2021, 7-9 in 2022 and then burst into the seen in 2023

Forgot about Henderson. Yeah that team isn’t the same but they added new pieces. It seems like they have a good knack for finding talent so that is a HUGE plus. Chark aint bad if he can stay health. Give Lawrence so more weapons and build up the OL and this team will be fine next year. As far as I know the OL will be toughest but dont know a ton about JAX. Robinson seems like a bust, not sure how the Taylor kid is doing, looks like he has allowed 8 sacks. Don’t know enough but about the OL but it should be their 1st priority.

 

[Robotech]

. . .

People talked about how bad the Jets are as an organization..... the Jags have a WAY worse roster and are run so poorly that the NFLPA literally warned players that they should be carful not to sign deals there.

LOL, I didn't know that the NFLPA issued that warning. It makes the Jaguars sound like a country that the State Department issues a travel advisory against.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Forgot about Henderson. Yeah that team isn’t the same but they added new pieces. It seems like they have a good knack for finding talent so that is a HUGE plus. Chark aint bad if he can stay health. Give Lawrence so more weapons and build up the OL and this team will be fine next year. As far as I know the OL will be toughest but dont know a ton about JAX. Robinson seems like a bust, not sure how the Taylor kid is doing, looks like he has allowed 8 sacks. Don’t know enough but about the OL but it should be their 1st priority.

Speaking of Oline, I wonder if people realize that the Jets could now potentially pick Sewell from Oregon if he declares and put him and Becton together, possibly making one a guard and have that moving forward. They would immediately be much better in the trenches and if they get the right coach/ OC to fix some of Darnolds stupid mistakes, this isn't all doom and gloom.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Speaking of Oline, I wonder if people realize that the Jets could now potentially pick Sewell from Oregon if he declares and put him and Becton together, possibly making one a guard and have that moving forward. They would immediately be much better in the trenches and if they get the right coach/ OC to fix some of Darnolds stupid mistakes, this isn't all doom and gloom.

Yeah unless they have given up on Darnold. He seemed like if he was the guy he would at least show some signs, not seeing any this year. So either take Fields, who isn’t as pro ready as TL and less experience as well, but give him a below average OL to work with in the process. Or give a 4th year guy a pretty solid OL and see what he can do. Jets are going to have another $80M in cap space like JAX but it seems like they do every year. If Fields isn’t NFL ready...pass on him and go with Sewell, a pretty A+ sure pick. Give Darnold one last year, if you suck...pick a QB in 2022

 

[Moab]

I actually think when all is said and done that the BYU QB will go ahead of Fields.

Fields is very similar to the last Ohio State QB to be taken in the 1st round. He is better.....but he is closer to Haskell than he is to Lawrence.

I cant put my finger on it exactly but I just don't love what I have seen from Fields. I understand why people rate him as high as they do. But I don't think I would be the one to pull the trigger on him.

Eddie Haskell played QB on Leave it to Beaver...I must've missed those episodes