Tank For Trevor

[SteelersPride]

These are two of the dumbest, most ill-informed statements I have ever seen on the NFL message board.

1) KC is a playoff team with any number of QB’s in this league. Easily one of the more complete rosters in the league. Mahomes is great....but KC has a top 5 offense in this league with any one of about 32 QB’s in the league. That’s how talented they are on offense overall.

2) Jacksonville doesn’t make the playoffs this year no matter who QB’s them. Nor do they get anywhere close. They put out one of the worst rosters this year that we have seen in the league in the last decade of football.

People talked about how bad the Jets are as an organization..... the Jags have a WAY worse roster and are run so poorly that the NFLPA literally warned players that they should be carful not to sign deals there.

Very much disagree him jags have a way worse roster

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Jags gonna draft Lawrence then waste his entire rookie deal with no talent around him . Id trade that 1 for about 4 other 1s. Get your team right then go get your QB . The KC model

Don't use teams with success as models though... they are the exceptions... not many teams have the talent to be successful and then find a generational talent in the middle of the first round...

whose to say if they traded away Lawrence, that they would ever get the opportunity to get that level of talent ever again??

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Tanking doesn't work in the NFL. So you're saying that creating a culture of losing for a team that's going to create a toxic atmosphere in the locker room so some young 20something rookie can come in and be the savior is a recipe for success?

Tanking does work... you just have to get lucky too... I mean, Peyton Manning was a tank, so was Andrew luck...

and what even is tanking?? I mean the Jets and Jags are really that bad, if either team was 0-16 we wouldn't be surprised... and there is not much difference between an 0-16 team and a 2-13-1 team... I mean, you are basically always the underdog, aren't ya??

 

[rmilia1]

Don't use teams with success as models though... they are the exceptions... not many teams have the talent to be successful and then find a generational talent in the middle of the first round...

whose to say if they traded away Lawrence, that they would ever get the opportunity to get that level of talent ever again??

Theres always another number 1 QB with "can't miss" potential. Taking a QB top 5 is almost always a losing proposition

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Theres always another number 1 QB with "can't miss" potential. Taking a QB top 5 is almost always a losing proposition

no, there is a misconception about that... teams that have bottom 5 picks are generally awful teams... with more holes than just QB... and a QB doesn't just MAKE them good...

while middle of the draft teams that LUCK out into drafting a franchise QB, will always be in better shape because there team is better.... But they are much less likely to draft that franchise QB...

this Is something where examples are only going to be cherry picked and anecdotal... Think about it logically though, if there are 32 starting QBs, what is the odds that a QB that is not even top 3 in a class is a franchise QB??

it should obviously get less and less likely going from best to worst in each class... SURE, there will always be exceptions, and there is always millions of other factors... but to think that the most talented prospects are not going to be the best players, is kind of silly...

if you want to use Mahomes, Rodgers, or even Brady as examples of not elite prospects being elite, they are exceptions... and to get that lucky is just simply an aberration to any mathematical, theoretical or realistic model...

and this is what makes football so difficult... every players success is so dependent on the rest of the team, that it is impossible to truly know what you have if anything is so bad...

But It is clear, that Jacksonville needs a new QB, and it is clear that the Jets are finished with the Darnold project...

 

[rmilia1]

no, there is a misconception about that... teams that have bottom 5 picks are generally awful teams... with more holes than just QB... and a QB doesn't just MAKE them good...

while middle of the draft teams that LUCK out into drafting a franchise QB, will always be in better shape because there team is better.... But they are much less likely to draft that franchise QB...

this Is something where examples are only going to be cherry picked and anecdotal... Think about it logically though, if there are 32 starting QBs, what is the odds that a QB that is not even top 3 in a class is a franchise QB??

it should obviously get less and less likely going from best to worst in each class... SURE, there will always be exceptions, and there is always millions of other factors... but to think that the most talented prospects are not going to be the best players, is kind of silly...

if you want to use Mahomes, Rodgers, or even Brady as examples of not elite prospects being elite, they are exceptions... and to get that lucky is just simply an aberration to any mathematical, theoretical or realistic model...

and this is what makes football so difficult... every players success is so dependent on the rest of the team, that it is impossible to truly know what you have if anything is so bad...

But It is clear, that Jacksonville needs a new QB, and it is clear that the Jets are finished with the Darnold project...

Sure i get it . Thats why you build your team around the QB spot first and then draft your QB. Which is what I said in the first place lol

 

[ducky]

But It is clear, that Jacksonville needs a new QB, and it is clear that the Jets are finished with the Darnold project...

I wouldn't be so sure of that now that the Jet's don't hold the #1 pick. Trevor Lawrence was a no brainer. The other QB's aren't really better bets than Darnold long term.

Now that the generational QB prospect is out of reach, there is a LOT more questions on what the Jet's should do. They could be primed for a trade down scenario now. Or they could stand pat and draft Sewell and have one of the best OL's in the league to build an offense behind that. But that would be a tough call in today's NFL with the cap (in 5 years they could potentially have to spend a ridiculous amount of $'s to keep bookend OT's).

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Sure i get it . Thats why you build your team around the QB spot first and then draft your QB. Which is what I said in the first place lol

But if you are a decent team already, you are much less likely to get that franchise QB in a draft... that's why you don't pass on that franchise QB when you have any opportunity to get one... and why you have to draft them early...

So sure, in an ideal world you would want to have a good team with a QB as the missing piece.... But that just doesn't happen... the teams that need QBs are generally the worst teams in football... and need to draft them despite the rest of their holes...

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I never saw this but this is fuckin' hilarious. I mean the Jags aren't much better. He'd probably have the same reaction.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I wouldn't be so sure of that now that the Jet's don't hold the #1 pick. Trevor Lawrence was a no brainer. Any team holding the #1 pick was going to take him with the only possible exception of the Bengals.

Now that the generational QB prospect is out of reach, there is a LOT more questions on what the Jet's should do. They could be primed for a trade down scenario now. Or they could stand pat and draft Sewell and have one of the best OL's in the league to build an offense behind that. But that would be a tough call in today's NFL with the cap (in 5 years they could potentially have to spend a ridiculous amount of $'s to keep bookend OT's).

I know nothing about college football, but isn't Fields supposed to be damn good too?? The Jets wont win with Darnold, he needs new scenery already... the toxic jets have ruined him... no, that is not saying they wont ruin Fields too...

 

[rmilia1]

But if you are a decent team already, you are much less likely to get that franchise QB in a draft... that's why you don't pass on that franchise QB when you have any opportunity to get one... and why you have to draft them early...

So sure, in an ideal world you would want to have a good team with a QB as the missing piece.... But that just doesn't happen... the teams that need QBs are generally the worst teams in football... and need to draft them despite the rest of their holes...

Eh i just disagree. Data and history proves its easier to find a good QB later than just about any position. These teams in a perpetual cycle of taking a QB first round every 3-5 years will never get out of it til they realize no QB will be worth a damn til you get him a line, some weapons and a D. Lawrence could be Mahomes and by the time the Jags are good enough to make the playoffs they won't be able to afford him anyway

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I know nothing about college football, but isn't Fields supposed to be damn good too?? The Jets wont win with Darnold, he needs new scenery already... the toxic jets have ruined him... no, that is not saying they wont ruin Fields too...

I think Fields will go #2 unless the Jets trade back (but that means someone is trading up to grab him). I think Fields is KIND of Lawrence as Leaf is to Manning (no way comparing what they ACTUALLY turned out as, just prospects at the time - Leaf obviously fell into drugs and cared none for making a career out of the NFL). Now Leaf was a very solid choice and would've gone #1 overall, but end of day Manning and him were still on a different level.

Lawrence was dominant ever since he started as a Freshman, and beat the vaunted Alabama proving he can win big games. Fields played 1.5 years and at times didn't go through progressions quite as well. I think many look at Fields and think, "OH UPSIDE UPSIDE!!!" which is true, but there are more question marks and some things to work on in his game than Lawrence. IMO Fields would be best sitting for a year, while Lawrence can be a day 1 starter.

Course this is all scouting and projections. Who knows end of day.. but as the prospect, he's better.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think Fields will go #2 unless the Jets trade back (but that means someone is trading up to grab him). I think Fields is KIND of Lawrence as Leaf is to Manning. Now Leaf was a very solid choice and would've gone #1 overall, but end of day Manning and him were still on a different level.

Lawrence was dominant ever since he started as a Freshman, and beat the vaunted Alabama proving he can win big games. Fields played 1.5 years and at times didn't go through progressions quite as well. I think many look at Fields and think, "OH UPSIDE UPSIDE!!!" which is true, but there are more question marks and some things to work on in his game than Lawrence. IMO Fields would be best sitting for a year, while Lawrence can be a day 1 starter.

Course this is all scouting and projections. Who knows end of day.. but as the prospect, he's better.

I mean, nobody is saying Fields is better than Lawrence... Just that he is a decent consolation prize...

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I mean, nobody is saying Fields is better than Lawrence... Just that he is a decent consolation prize...

Sure. And with Lawrence saying, "That sucks." when asked, "What are your thoughts on being selected by the Jets?" LOL... maybe the Jets would've passed on him anyway... that would certainly make sense given their horrible FO/coaching staff. Course Lawrence would probably have the same reaction for the Jags.

I think everyone considers Lawrence a SLAM DUNK pick. And Fields to be a good pick but some question marks there. OBVIOUSLY if it's between 1 and 2, you want the slam dunk pick.

It's like Oden vs. Durant. Durant was a slam dunk pick. Oden had a lot of question marks (injuries namely). And.... derp.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Eh i just disagree. Data and history proves its easier to find a good QB later than just about any position. These teams in a perpetual cycle of taking a QB first round every 3-5 years will never get out of it til they realize no QB will be worth a damn til you get him a line, some weapons and a D. Lawrence could be Mahomes and by the time the Jags are good enough to make the playoffs they won't be able to afford him anyway

So, what would you do to rebuild?? trade down and get a boat load of picks?? that has a lot of risk too, you never know whether you will get the opportunity to get elite prospects, and generally prospects fail...

getting offensive line help first- well that doesn't always work, because offensive line is one of the slowest positions for prospects to evolve, and just like any other position, most prospects fail...

would you trade for already proven players?? well. that doesn't always work, because this is the NFL, players don't have long careers...

The smartest way to always improve your team is to get the players when you can get them..... and QB is always the most important position to get...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Sure. And with Lawrence saying, "That sucks." when asked, "What are your thoughts on being selected by the Jets?" LOL... maybe the Jets would've passed on him anyway... that would certainly make sense given their horrible FO/coaching staff. Course Lawrence would probably have the same reaction for the Jags.

I think everyone considers Lawrence a SLAM DUNK pick. And Fields to be a good pick but some question marks there. OBVIOUSLY if it's between 1 and 2, you want the slam dunk pick.

It's like Oden vs. Durant. Durant was a slam dunk pick. Oden had a lot of question marks (injuries namely). And.... derp.

I don't think anyone ever wants to play for the worst team in football... but Tomlin said it best to chase young last week, " I never want a player like you on my team, because to get you we would have to lose 15 games"- paraphrased


point is that these players dont have to like where they are going, but they will pretend to...

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I don't think anyone ever wants to play for the worst team in football... but Tomlin said it best to chase young last week, " I never want a player like you on my team, because to get you we would have to lose 15 games"- paraphrased


point is that these players dont have to like where they are going, but they will pretend to...

Well Lawrence didn't pretend. YouTube it, he said it flat out sucks he has to go to the Jets. Elway, E. Manning, etc. didn't pretend they liked where they were going.

And I agree with Tomlin... drafting #1 overall is not a good thing. It means your entire franchise is in disarray and the chance you 'hit' on someone like Manning (or Luck - seriously fuck the Colts) is PREEEEETTTY damn rare.

 

[Mebert]

Jags gonna draft Lawrence then waste his entire rookie deal with no talent around him . Id trade that 1 for about 4 other 1s. Get your team right then go get your QB . The KC model

Jags have 84 million in cap and 4 of the top 50 picks. They have everything you could want to rebuild a winner, probably not year 1, but if they get a good GM Jags can turn it around quickly. Dolphins did it just recently.

 

[Mebert]

I mean, nobody is saying Fields is better than Lawrence... Just that he is a decent consolation prize...

I think in just about any Draft teams would be absolutely thrilled to get Fields 1. No shame in not being Lawrence

 

[megalodon30]

These are two of the dumbest, most ill-informed statements I have ever seen on the NFL message board.

1) KC is a playoff team with any number of QB’s in this league. Easily one of the more complete rosters in the league. Mahomes is great....but KC has a top 5 offense in this league with any one of about 32 QB’s in the league. That’s how talented they are on offense overall.

2) Jacksonville doesn’t make the playoffs this year no matter who QB’s them. Nor do they get anywhere close. They put out one of the worst rosters this year that we have seen in the league in the last decade of football.

People talked about how bad the Jets are as an organization..... the Jags have a WAY worse roster and are run so poorly that the NFLPA literally warned players that they should be carful not to sign deals there.

Bull CRAP!!! Mahomes easily makes any team in the NFL a Super Bowl contender. That’s the difference an elite QB makes.

Look at the Colts with and without Manning. Annual SB contender with him, 2 win team without. Look at the Pats with and without Brady. Annual contender with him, .500 at best without him.

And lest we forget, the Jags are just two years removed from an AFC championship appearance. Mahomes could easily have that team contending. You seriously devalue the QB position if you don’t think Mahomes wouldn’t be a difference maker there.