Durant ijury, the cosequences for the entire league's future..

[buckalis]

You place too much emphasis on the luxury tax and not enough on the salary cap.

The problem is, no matter what moves the Warriors make, they are not going below the salary cap threshold.

So, even if they did avoid the luxury tax for a year or two, the won't be able to simply reload because they will be above the cap and stuck with MLE, minimum contracts and trades as a way to improve the roster.

If what you said was true, they won't have any real trade assets aside from their big 3 to work with because they will have gotten rid of all their other meaningful salary. A string of late first round picks doesn't net a whole lot.

In other words, if the Warriors are going to continue to contend, paying needed pieces is the most realistic way to do it. They can't later replace the salary that they shed now.

You act like they won't have saved exceptions of their own, nor they'll be buying any coming with the contracts they are to sign in the future...

Like the Cavs are now doing, GSW will on purpose stay just under the lux tax for the following two seasons... Then they'll be buying players that carry cap holds and only watch the series they resign contracts for the third season.

For instance... do expect the Bucks to resign Brogdon first out of their free agents (because he has the smaller cap hold) and Mirotic last....

 

[tlance]

You act like they won't have saved exceptions of their own, nor they'll be buying any coming with the contracts they are to sign in the future...

Like the Cavs are now doing, GSW will on purpose stay just under the lux tax for the following two seasons... Then they'll be buying players that carry cap holds and only watch the series they resign contracts for the third season.

For instance... do expect the Bucks to resign Brogdon first out of their free agents (because he has the smaller cap hold) and Mirotic last....

Terrible comparison with the Cavs.

The Cavs lost LeBron and had a mediocre roster. The Warriors are not in that position. Also, had LeBron resigned in Cleveland, the Cavs most definitely would have taken a different approach and would have stayed above the tax line again.

 

[buckalis]

Terrible comparison with the Cavs.

The Cavs lost LeBron and had a mediocre roster. The Warriors are not in that position. Also, had LeBron resigned in Cleveland, the Cavs most definitely would have taken a different approach and would have stayed above the tax line again.

No way the Cavs would have stayed in repeaters tax eligibility (which is why I made the comparison). As I've many times told you, you don't even know half as much as I do on the CBA...

Remember when you claimed that a team which has failed to make the playoffs can make a trade outside the 125% rule even if it has 5 or 6 players under contract in its roster? Well... it can't unless it has 13 players in its roster and it ends up with at least 13 players in its roster too..

 

[tlance]

No way the Cavs would have stayed in repeaters tax eligibility (which is why I made the comparison). As I've many times told you, you don't even know half as much as I do on the CBA...

Remember when you claimed that a team which has failed to make the playoffs can make a trade outside the 125% rule even if it has 5 or 6 players under contract in its roster? Well... it can't unless it has 13 players in its roster and it ends up with at least 13 players in its roster too..

As I keep telling you, you don't know half as much as I do about basketball and the NBA.

James was not staying in Cleveland if Gilbert was trimming salary. Just not an option.

All accounts from last spring and prior indicate that Gilbert was 100% willing and able to write those checks IF LeBron were willing to commit long term.

LeBron did not commit, so Gilbert went below the tax line.

But what you fail to comprehend is that LeBron would not play for a salary cutting Cavs team. Was never going to happen.

 

[tlance]

No way the Cavs would have stayed in repeaters tax eligibility (which is why I made the comparison). As I've many times told you, you don't even know half as much as I do on the CBA...

Remember when you claimed that a team which has failed to make the playoffs can make a trade outside the 125% rule even if it has 5 or 6 players under contract in its roster? Well... it can't unless it has 13 players in its roster and it ends up with at least 13 players in its roster too..

You are acting like that rule is in any way prohibitive.

It isn't more than a formality easily avoided.

When the Rockets traded for Chris Paul, they signed a few players on minimum non-guaranteed contracts immediately prior to making the trade. I don't know how many of them were on the roster when the season started, but you act like there aren't loopholes to dodge that rule without adding more than negligible salary to the books.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It might only be that one more year if KD stays, not so sure they max Draymond if he stays for the 5 year deal

and thats what i said too- while i think KD is gone personally, if he is back, draymond will be correspondingly gone soon enough once he is max eligible (since i cant see them getting rid of steph or klay). Its , for all intents and purposes, impossible to carry 4 max players- ESPECIALLY when you are in the repeater. I know that you grasp this but some dumb asses dont. its not a measure of the Warriors motivation or their pockets, its just simply the CBA doing what the CBA is designed to do.

I mean, at that point, every $1 dollar spent at the top marginal rates they would be looking at would really be $8.25 dollars spent or more. Its just math.

 

[WiggyRuss]

As I keep telling you, you don't know half as much as I do about basketball and the NBA.

James was not staying in Cleveland if Gilbert was trimming salary. Just not an option.

All accounts from last spring and prior indicate that Gilbert was 100% willing and able to write those checks IF LeBron were willing to commit long term.

LeBron did not commit, so Gilbert went below the tax line.

But what you fail to comprehend is that LeBron would not play for a salary cutting Cavs team. Was never going to happen.

again your a dumb ass.

There is a HUGE difference from writing luxury tax checks for 60M, which Gilbert was doing, and writing luxury tax checks for 160M. 60M was an unbelievable number that people gawked at.

60M is a huge number that has only happened, I believe, 4 times in the history of the league (twice by the Cavs, once by Brooklyn and once by OKC- and OKC was non-repeater which makes a huge difference). 160M- and thats if Looney and Livingston are gone- is simply not a tenable number.....and as i said- when Iguadala leaves the following year, his contract is almost 100% soaked up by Draymond's increase, and the total goes flying over the prior years total due to built in raises. If it would 160M this year, it would be closer to, or exceeding 200M the next year.

as i said, you are either 1. stupid 2. ignorant 3. or stubborn if you think that is a palatable number to pay to keep the Big 4 together going forward.

 

[WiggyRuss]

made a huge deal in my long-term keeper league...dealt Verlander and ancillary pieces Woodard and Asdrubal Cabrera for Mike Clevinger and Austin Riley.

Verlander was at $31 to keep next year (on a $260 budget- every year you keep a guy his cost goes up by $5). I added Clevinger who is $15 to keep next year and Austin Riley who, is only $5 to keep next year. I won the league last year but made trades to "go for it" and am now doing the opposite- restocking my youth and getting cheaper keeper options. You can keep up to 8 guys and have a minor leagues of 5 guys. I had Judge who got hurt, jose Ramirez who has simply sucked, Bryce Harper who has disappointed (paid full freight on Harper at $58 so hes not a keeper- and will also soon be dealt to a contender for more youth).

I think it was a good deal. Verlander is a huge commodity becuase of his performance and price- but i got a great young pitcher and a great young fielder. I had a similar offer of Tyler Glasnow at $17 next year and Victor Robles at $5 next year but decided to go with Clev. and Riley. Itll be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[tlance]

again your a dumb ass.

There is a HUGE difference from writing luxury tax checks for 60M, which Gilbert was doing, and writing luxury tax checks for 160M. 60M was an unbelievable number that people gawked at.

60M is a huge number that has only happened, I believe, 4 times in the history of the league (twice by the Cavs, once by Brooklyn and once by OKC). 160M- and thats if Looney and Livingston are gone- is simply not a tenable number.....and as i said- when Iguadala leaves the following year, his contract is almost 100% soaked up by Draymond's increase, and the total goes flying over the prior years total due to built in raises. If it would 160M this year, it would be closer to, or exceeding 200M the next year.

as i said, you are either 1. stupid 2. ignorant 3. or stubborn if you think that is a palatable number to pay to keep the Big 4 together going forward.

So then you are saying that Bob Myers is either:

Stupid, ignorant, stubborn, or blatantly lying

All I have ever said is that it is possible. Because Myers has said it is possible. At least in the short term.

You also said it was impossible for JaVale McGee to average more than 8PPG and impossible for LeBron to sign in LA without another star.

So no matter how many insults you care to use, the reality is that you don't have access to the Warriors financial data. You don't know what the details of their actual cash flow look like and you also don't know the extent to which Lacob is willing to take losses to keep this thing going as long as possible.

Your position is entirely based of assumptions of what the Warriors can afford and are willing to pay. The reality is that you don't know the answer because you only have 1 side of the equation.

We do know that revenue esimates place the Warriors at over $400 million last season. That number has trended up sharply over the last few years and will spike again next year with the new arena.

Also, comparing current luxury tax bills to any prior period, even 3-4 years ago is stupid beyond measure.

Because league revenue and team valuations continue to smash prior records every single year. Every NBA team is currently valued at over $1 billion dollars, when teams were being sold for half that 5-6 years ago and teams like the Nets, Hornets and 6ers sold for less than $300 million less than a decade ago.

Past financial numbers for NBA teams are completely irrelevant to what teams are willing to spend today. Gilbert's $54 million tax bill from just a couple years ago is probably equivalent to $90-100 million in taxes today. And, the Warriors have a better market than the Cavs did and have a new arena the Cavs didn't.

You will probably get lucky because KD probably leaves. But your assumptions are based on facts that you don't have and Bob Myers clearly does. So you very well could be wrong.

And I really hope you are so I can rub it in your face again.

The best part? I can't be wrong here unless the Warriors completely blow up their team.

 

[tlance]

made a huge deal in my long-term keeper league...dealt Verlander and ancillary pieces Woodard and Asdrubal Cabrera for Mike Clevinger and Austin Riley.

Verlander was at $31 to keep next year (on a $260 budget- every year you keep a guy his cost goes up by $5). I added Clevinger who is $15 to keep next year and Austin Riley who, is only $5 to keep next year. I won the league last year but made trades to "go for it" and am now doing the opposite- restocking my youth and getting cheaper keeper options. You can keep up to 8 guys and have a minor leagues of 5 guys. I had Judge who got hurt, jose Ramirez who has simply sucked, Bryce Harper who has disappointed (paid full freight on Harper at $58 so hes not a keeper- and will also soon be dealt to a contender for more youth).

I think it was a good deal. Verlander is a huge commodity becuase of his performance and price- but i got a great young pitcher and a great young fielder. I had a similar offer of Tyler Glasnow at $17 next year and Victor Robles at $5 next year but decided to go with Clev. and Riley. Itll be interesting to see how it goes.

Nobody here cares about your fantasy baseball team.

 

[WiggyRuss]

So then you are saying that Bob Myers is either:

Stupid, ignorant, stubborn, or blatantly lying

All I have ever said is that it is possible. Because Myers has said it is possible. At least in the short term.

You also said it was impossible for JaVale McGee to average more than 8PPG and impossible for LeBron to sign in LA without another star.

So no matter how many insults you care to use, the reality is that you don't have access to the Warriors financial data. You don't know what the details of their actual cash flow look like and you also don't know the extent to which Lacob is willing to take losses to keep this thing going as long as possible.

Your position is entirely based of assumptions of what the Warriors can afford and are willing to pay. The reality is that you don't know the answer because you only have 1 side of the equation.

We do know that revenue esimates place the Warriors at over $400 million last season. That number has trended up sharply over the last few years and will spike again next year with the new arena.

Also, comparing current luxury tax bills to any prior period, even 3-4 years ago is stupid beyond measure.

Because league revenue and team valuations continue to smash prior records every single year. Every NBA team is currently valued at over $1 billion dollars, when teams were being sold for half that 5-6 years ago and teams like the Nets, Hornets and 6ers sold for less than $300 million less than a decade ago.

Past financial numbers for NBA teams are completely irrelevant to what teams are willing to spend today. Gilbert's $54 million tax bill from just a couple years ago is probably equivalent to $90-100 million in taxes today. And, the Warriors have a better market than the Cavs did and have a new arena the Cavs didn't.

You will probably get lucky because KD probably leaves. But your assumptions are based on facts that you don't have and Bob Myers clearly does. So you very well could be wrong.

And I really hope you are so I can rub it in your face again.

The best part? I can't be wrong here unless the Warriors completely blow up their team.

its not about access to data or luck, or motivation or cash flow

its about common sense and the ability to do simple math. apparently those attributes are not in your wheelhouse.

 

[tlance]

its not about access to data or luck, or motivation or cash flow

its about common sense and the ability to do simple math. apparently those attributes are not in your wheelhouse.

No?

Then what is the Warriors projected Basketball Related Income next year?

Pretty important piece that you totally ignore.

 

[dtgold88]

You did and It was not "probably wrong", it was pure fiction...
and it's not "also corrected you", if the Cavs wouldn't have payed lux tax during 14/15 (which was my mistake), they would have never payed repeaters tax in 2018... would they?

But then, you haven't answered my other question before, so here it is again:

"Does the Cavs paying the repeaters tax once, means to you that the Golden State will be paying forever here after?"

...200M of taxes per year? ...are you serious?

If they loose the finals to the Raptors, they go under the lux tax roof next season... anything else is nonsense, utter and pure nonesense!

Never said they'd do it...said they could. who the hell knows what they'll do? Obviously, KD/Klay injuries change things.

 

[WiggyRuss]

No?

Then what is the Warriors projected Basketball Related Income next year?

Pretty important piece that you totally ignore.

again, it doesnt matter. Their revenue cant outstrip what the CBA was designed to do- prevent 4 max players from being on the same team. Its math. Again, this is common sense. The CBA was designed so the highest revenue teams could not continue to pay the repeater-- and while GSW has broken into that highest revenue tier even though theyhistorically have not been it- the CBA was still designed to do what it will do- make sure a team cant pay the repeater to keep together 4 max players.

its common sense and simple math. you are either 1. stupid 2. ignorant or 3. stubborn/in denial.

 

[dtgold88]

Yet, these guys keep saying it is impossible.

They might change course. But I will never say impossible because of what these guys have done for franchise value.

That is what Wiggy and Buck simply don't understand.

Correct......never know what billionaires with an obscene will to win might do. Will they need to pinch pennies in their regular lives if they spent an extra $50 mil? $100 mil?

 

[dtgold88]

You’re drunk on Derp if you think this team stays together. Two busted ass players that won’t be the same spells the end for this core group.

I agree they might not stay together because maybe they think Green not worth a max. But if Green were close to Durant's level I think they might stay together.

 

[tlance]

again, it doesnt matter. Their revenue cant outstrip what the CBA was designed to do- prevent 4 max players from being on the same team. Its math. Again, this is common sense. The CBA was designed so the highest revenue teams could not continue to pay the repeater-- and while GSW has broken into that highest revenue tier even though theyhistorically have not been it- the CBA was still designed to do what it will do- make sure a team cant pay the repeater to keep together 4 max players.

its common sense and simple math. you are either 1. stupid 2. ignorant or 3. stubborn/in denial.

The CBA was also designed to prevent superteams.

Yet, the Warriors were still able to sign KD to a 73 win roster.

Yes, their income absolutely matters. Can't believe you could be ignorant enough to dispute that. Just because the CBA was "designed to make 4 max players impossible" does not mean that it will be successful.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The CBA was also designed to prevent superteams.

Yet, the Warriors were still able to sign KD to a 73 win roster.

Yes, their income absolutely matters. Can't believe you could be ignorant enough to dispute that. Just because the CBA was "designed to make 4 max players impossible" does not mean that it will be successful.

I mean again , you are either stupid or ignorant or in denial or all 3.

I would hope by now you know the circumstances of Golden State's super team --- and it was CERTAINLY not spending a ton of money to put one together

it was:

1. Curry being locked into a hugely below market contract due to signing it after his weak ankles were plaguing him and before he made his leap.

2. the huge jump in the salary cap due to the new TV contract coming into play and no smoothing mechanism for the cap.

What a bullshit false equivalency "it was designed to prevent super teams". I mean is this really an accurate measure of your intellect such a weak argument? i would love to know where you attended college (IF you did at all).

 

[dtgold88]

You act like they won't have saved exceptions of their own, nor they'll be buying any coming with the contracts they are to sign in the future...

Like the Cavs are now doing, GSW will on purpose stay just under the lux tax for the following two seasons... Then they'll be buying players that carry cap holds and only watch the series they resign contracts for the third season.

For instance... do expect the Bucks to resign Brogdon first out of their free agents (because he has the smaller cap hold) and Mirotic last....

Cavs are doing it because they cannot win a title. McFly?

 

[dtgold88]

As I keep telling you, you don't know half as much as I do about basketball and the NBA.

James was not staying in Cleveland if Gilbert was trimming salary. Just not an option.

All accounts from last spring and prior indicate that Gilbert was 100% willing and able to write those checks IF LeBron were willing to commit long term.

LeBron did not commit, so Gilbert went below the tax line.

But what you fail to comprehend is that LeBron would not play for a salary cutting Cavs team. Was never going to happen.

All facts