Week 14 - Matt Barkley: Part Three (Bears at Lions Game-Thread)

[richig07]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/tartan...ng-draft-value-by-position/amp/?client=safari

Wow. Very interesting stuff. Thanks for posting. I had read about QB's needing to be addressed in the 1st on here previously, from another poster who essentially said the same. I didn't know much about the other positions. Interesting that value in lineman, LB's, WR's... etc... are even in all rounds.

 

[LambeauLegs]

Yeah, I'm in a really bad mood, and I didn't expect to take this loss so hard. However, I also didn't expect to get fucking robbed like that. Jesus

I was up at Lambeau Field for the Packer game and the Vikes also playing at the same time they had 2 TVs on with each of the games on outside on the wall of the stadium near the proshop. There were was a group of Packer fans watching hoping to see the Vikes it Lions lose. There was maybe 100 to 200 people looking up cheering for the Bears at Lambeau Field. In all my time I have never seen that and there were big groans when those BS holding calls prevented the field goal to tie the game.

 

[wood20ks]

Fudge, I didn't want to turn this into a debate.
You disagree... that's fine with me.
But it is fair to mention those teams.
I think they all picked after our Bears in most cases.
Based on your argument, the talent of the players should drop off a little... no?
Rodgers was a late 1st round pick. Brady is annoyingly referred to as a late round gem.
As for the Cowboys, they moved up to get EE. (Plus they have a heralded O-line.)
I think stealing Prescott in the 4th round is the bigger story.

I like the points Rich made too.
A good GM and scouting org will find "first round" talent in any round.

I think its more luck than anything.............for the pats to draft Brady was more luck than them knowingly he was gonna be that good..........If they knew this,he`d gone higher.

 

[wood20ks]

No shit. They'd also tell you that they'd rather keep winning and contending than have a top pick.

Of course they would............But that does not mean they want the bottom of the heap picks over the best players out there.
Then why is it there are teams out there that trade up?...................

Any person in their right mind would like to have the top 5 picks every single year over the bottom 5 regardless.

 

[anotheridiot]

Brady had an extremely bad combine and his scouting reports were very negative. Although he had good numbers, every scout had the same problem - Brady seemed to do everything slowly. At the combine, he ran the 40 yard dash at a time in the high 6's - a time even an offensive lineman expected to be drafted would be embarrassed about.
The Patriots drafted Brady almost by accident. They were impressed with his skills too, but not enough to draft him higher. By the 6th round, they felt that he was the best player left and, even though they thought he had no chance against incumbent Drew Bledsoe.
At camp, Brady continued not to impress. He finally started to improve when he snuck a look at a coaches notes. The coach had some wonderful things to say, but at the end it came up again "does everything slowly". Brady then started to work on this aspect of his game and the rest is history.

So, yeah, spy gate and deflate gate started with Brady cheating off of coaches notes.

 

[richig07]

Of course they would............But that does not mean they want the bottom of the heap picks over the best players out there.
Then why is it there are teams out there that trade up?...................

Any person in their right mind would like to have the top 5 picks every single year over the bottom 5 regardless.

Teams trade up because there is a prospect they like at that spot.

None of what your saying is really relevant to the conversation. I never debated that you would voluntarily take a lower pick. I am simply saying that it is a drastically less important than the average fan believes.

 

[wood20ks]

Teams trade up because there is a prospect they like at that spot.

None of what your saying is really relevant to the conversation. I never debated that you would voluntarily take a lower pick. I am simply saying that it is a drastically less important than the average fan believes.

Yes I understand why they trade up.

I don`t think its less drastic.......There is more than one player at the position they are trading up for.......Then why do they trade up if its not drastic?
If its not drastic enough,they`d just settle for whom they`d think is the next best player or bpa at another respective position....I`d tend to think trading up is a very good indication that the better players are at the top.And not the bottom of the draft......
And you said "Draft positioning in the NFL is probably the single most overrated aspect in sports that is obsessed about."

I don`t think its overrated.........I think it gets the GM`s and fans excited they have a chance to get the next "talk of the league" player.......
Like someone else said,"if it was not for tom Brady,Aaron Rodgers,Drew brees,Peyton Manning,those teams would be picking at the top.

So the aspect would be,"yeah we are a winning team and we pick near the bottom every year",thats a great thing.

wait till you see what happens when those players retire.......js.

 

[anotheridiot]

I want them to see a target and go and get that target. Everyone whines about those second or third round picks we need to give up to move up but what have they brought us anyway?

The bears need to go into this with two clear targets, quarterback, OT, maybe CB (although I dont think they go early). First guy goes, then you trade up to make sure you get the other one, maybe trade down to get another second if you know the other guy will drop a few spots. If the QB you target is destined to go in the third or fourth round, then trade up there too. Fuck this BPA shit, thats always saying you did not get who you targeted. Go BPA in the late rounds, who cares, but not early.

 

[beardown07]

I want them to see a target and go and get that target. Everyone whines about those second or third round picks we need to give up to move up but what have they brought us anyway?

The bears need to go into this with two clear targets, quarterback, OT, maybe CB (although I dont think they go early). First guy goes, then you trade up to make sure you get the other one, maybe trade down to get another second if you know the other guy will drop a few spots. If the QB you target is destined to go in the third or fourth round, then trade up there too. Fuck this BPA shit, thats always saying you did not get who you targeted. Go BPA in the late rounds, who cares, but not early.

Isn't that exactly what they just did with Floyd?

There is no way of guaranteeing who you get. Targeting two specific players sounds great, but there is absolutely no way of knowing who will go where.

I'd have a hard time complaining about this last draft. Floyd looks to be a player. Whitehair was the best pick of the second round, and it's not even close IMO. Bullard hasn't become much yet, but was still a great value in the 3rd. Kwiatkoski looks to be a stud/starter in the 4th. They also moved up to get him. Bush and Hall are serviceable 4th rounders. Jordan Howard is the best pick of the entire draft, in the 5th, IMO. Hell, even Braverman in the 7th was a solid pick.


So, I'd say those late round picks have brought us plenty.

 

[richig07]

I want them to see a target and go and get that target. Everyone whines about those second or third round picks we need to give up to move up but what have they brought us anyway?

The bears need to go into this with two clear targets, quarterback, OT, maybe CB (although I dont think they go early). First guy goes, then you trade up to make sure you get the other one, maybe trade down to get another second if you know the other guy will drop a few spots. If the QB you target is destined to go in the third or fourth round, then trade up there too. Fuck this BPA shit, thats always saying you did not get who you targeted. Go BPA in the late rounds, who cares, but not early.

I don't really understand complaining about our drafting with Pace. Outside of White who we simply haven't seen much of yet, it's actually been rather great. This past year in particular, Floyd, Whitehair, Kwiatkoski, Howard, Hall... etc... I have a hard time seeing what isn't to like.

 

[richig07]

Isn't that exactly what they just did with Floyd?

There is no way of guaranteeing who you get. Targeting two specific players sounds great, but there is absolutely no way of knowing who will go where.

I'd have a hard time complaining about this last draft. Floyd looks to be a player. Whitehair was the best pick of the second round, and it's not even close IMO. Bullard hasn't become much yet, but was still a great value in the 3rd. Kwiatkoski looks to be a stud/starter in the 4th. They also moved up to get him. Bush and Hall are serviceable 4th rounders. Jordan Howard is the best pick of the entire draft, in the 5th, IMO. Hell, even Braverman in the 7th was a solid pick.


So, I'd say those late round picks have brought us plenty.

Don't forget the prior season grabbing Eddie Goldman in the 2nd as well. No idea what draft classes that AI is looking at.

 

[wood20ks]

Isn't that exactly what they just did with Floyd?

There is no way of guaranteeing who you get. Targeting two specific players sounds great, but there is absolutely no way of knowing who will go where.

I'd have a hard time complaining about this last draft. Floyd looks to be a player. Whitehair was the best pick of the second round, and it's not even close IMO. Bullard hasn't become much yet, but was still a great value in the 3rd. Kwiatkoski looks to be a stud/starter in the 4th. They also moved up to get him. Bush and Hall are serviceable 4th rounders. Jordan Howard is the best pick of the entire draft, in the 5th, IMO. Hell, even Braverman in the 7th was a solid pick.


So, I'd say those late round picks have brought us plenty.

Not sure about the entire draft,but I`d definetley say the 'steal" of the draft.........

 

[beardown07]

Not sure about the entire draft,but I`d definetley say the 'steal" of the draft.........

I guess I meant that. Value-wise, it has to be considered the top.

 

[RobBase]

Most mocks have you taking QB DeShone Kizer regardless of where you draft in the top 5. You can beat Green Bay and still get him.

 

[wood20ks]

Most mocks have you taking QB DeShone Kizer regardless of where you draft in the top 5. You can beat Green Bay and still get him.

never heard of him..........

 

[beardown07]

never heard of him..........

Notre Dame's QB