Wow Billy. Oak lands staff is stacked!

[Thisnamewasntaken]

I don't think we're getting that wild card spot BUT if we did there's no way we can compete now. I mean they have 4 solid pitchers. 3 of them below a 3.00 ERA I believe..anyways their staff is STACKED. We have a crummy offense and even if we were going to upgrade our rotation is point is moot now. No way we should pay the Price for Price ha. I say we stand pat and let it go down the toilet..better luck next year. Lets call this 2009 part deux.

 

[cezero]

I look at what Beane is doing to an already great team, and get jealous.

Z is so incompetent. Just a shame.

 

[Podunkparte]

I look at what Beane is doing to an already great team, and get jealous.

Z is so incompetent. Just a shame.

We're not in anywhere near the same position as the A's. Completely different stages.

If Jack traded Seager for a couple months of Lester with reports that he is willing to resign back with Boston next year everyone would be pissed.

Good for the A's. They're going for it in a year they should. We should be looking to upgrade slightly this year but more for the next few years while guys like Seager and Zunino get better.

 

[gowazzu02]

the real problem is Jack Z may get resigned after this year. Even though he has yet to address the obvious elephant in the room. the team can't hit.

 

[Podunkparte]

the real problem is Jack Z may get resigned after this year. Even though he has yet to address the obvious elephant in the room. the team can't hit.

He's added Seager and Zunino to this system, and DJ Peterson and Alex Jackson have big potential. We were in much worse shape before those guys.

The problem though has to be deeper. Jack is not a hitting coach in the M's system. Somewhere the guys who should be better hitters than they are (Ackley) aren't getting the right coaching to improve, whether that's simple mechanics or being able to identify problems quickly and stop lingering slumps. That's where I want to see improvement, and I think Hojo should get a lot of credit for doing what he can so far this year, though 1 guy can't overcome a system wide lack of developed potential.

If we really want this team to become relevant again, Jack shouldn't be the only scapegoat. Just replacing him with an unknown doesn't automatically make this team better.

 

[cezero]

We're not in anywhere near the same position as the A's. Completely different stages.

If Jack traded Seager for a couple months of Lester with reports that he is willing to resign back with Boston next year everyone would be pissed.

Good for the A's. They're going for it in a year they should. We should be looking to upgrade slightly this year but more for the next few years while guys like Seager and Zunino get better.

I'm not saying the M's should move Seager or Zunino. No clue where you got that from, and as you said, the M's situation is completely different.

To get quality, you have to give up quality. Beane does it over and over again without getting raped. Z has proven that he's not capable of trading with the big boys without getting fucked good.

 

[cezero]

He's added Seager and Zunino to this system, and DJ Peterson and Alex Jackson have big potential. We were in much worse shape before those guys.

The problem though has to be deeper. Jack is not a hitting coach in the M's system. Somewhere the guys who should be better hitters than they are (Ackley) aren't getting the right coaching to improve, whether that's simple mechanics or being able to identify problems quickly and stop lingering slumps. That's where I want to see improvement, and I think Hojo should get a lot of credit for doing what he can so far this year, though 1 guy can't overcome a system wide lack of developed potential.

If we really want this team to become relevant again, Jack shouldn't be the only scapegoat. Just replacing him with an unknown doesn't automatically make this team better.

I agree. But Z's in charge of hiring and firing the staff you're talking about, and they have been around for years and years.

I also agree with you about it not being fair to just blame Z. Ultimate blame goes right to the top with the M's absentee ownership and a President/CEO who are indifferent to winning, no matter what they claim.

 

[Podunkparte]

I'm not saying the M's should move Seager or Zunino. No clue where you got that from, and as you said, the M's situation is completely different.

To get quality, you have to give up quality. Beane does it over and over again without getting raped. Z has proven that he's not capable of trading with the big boys without getting fucked good.

I didn't mean to suggest you did, just that in general, when a team like the A's makes a big splash, or splashes as it is, people start to yell about why their team didn't do it first. In this case making a similar move would have been foolish.

And yes, Billy Beane makes great trades and Jack isn't as good. That's not unique. There are zero GMs out there who make trades as well as Beane does.

 

[Podunkparte]

I agree. But Z's in charge of hiring and firing the staff you're talking about, and they have been around for years and years.

I also agree with you about it not being fair to just blame Z. Ultimate blame goes right to the top with the M's absentee ownership and a President/CEO who are indifferent to winning, no matter what they claim.

Right, and we're all blue in the face about that topic. That's just a situation where it only changes when it finally changes. There's no amount of internet debating that changes the fact that those assholes are incompetent.

 

[cezero]

I didn't mean to suggest you did, just that in general, when a team like the A's makes a big splash, or splashes as it is, people start to yell about why their team didn't do it first. In this case making a similar move would have been foolish.

And yes, Billy Beane makes great trades and Jack isn't as good. That's not unique. There are zero GMs out there who make trades as well as Beane does.

The M's have different needs for sure.

 

[kcden]

I must be the only one that is puzzled by this trade for the A's. Their staff is already stacked; Lester isn't as good as Samardzija or Gray, and maybe not even Kazmir (hard to pin him down with the inconsistency over his career). I guess they're already cutting bait on Hammel being what they thought he was when they traded for him?
Maybe I'm looking at the move through the eyes of an M's fan, where I would take Cespedes in the middle of our lineup 100 times out of 100 before I took a half a year of Lester (or even if Lester resigned, frankly). Is Gomes really a good replacement? Seems to me he's got a ton of power, but the potential to go out and hit .190 for you (kind of like an M's hitter... only he's got a ton of power).

 

[seahawksfan234]

I have a ton of respect for Billy Beane and the team he has put together, but I think trading Cespedes for 10 Jon Lester starts is completely asinine. Oakland already has a great staff and lost a good outfielder for a rental pitcher.

 

[cezero]

If the A's weren't looking to re-sign Cespedes beyond 2015 when his current contract ends, they were just going to trade him this offseason or before the AS break next year, and probably get even less in return.

Beane's not an idiot, and Cespedes is about to get expensive, so I think any logical person understands that what I said above is probably the case.

The A's are already a powerhouse, and just improved their rotation so it can contend with a frightening rotation like Scherzer/Price/Verlander this season. The move is pretty damn good if you think rationally.

 

[NWinAZ]

Beane is the man. I am going to be pulling big for A's this year. I like what they did along with Boston. Boston got better and didn't really lose much since Lester could easily re-sign back with them.

Tigers didn't do to shabby either. Must be nice to spend money like it doesn't matter.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I have a ton of respect for Billy Beane and the team he has put together, but I think trading Cespedes for 10 Jon Lester starts is completely asinine. Oakland already has a great staff and lost a good outfielder for a rental pitcher.

Then again, it's not as if Cespedes is hitting .320 with a .950 OPS or something that good...the past 2 years, he's a .247 hitter with a 108 OPS+, so he hasn't been anything special since his rookie year in 2012 (and it's possible that he peaked in that rookie year).

Cespedes had only the 6th best OPS on that A's starting lineup this year (and 5th last year) so it's not like they were trading their top hitter.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I could see both sides of the coin here. Lester is a difference maker and has proven to clutch in October. Its possible that a staff of Shark, Gray and Kazmir could have done very well in October but theres no way to know for sure. Lester is proven.

However obviously a pitcher goes once maybe twice a series where as a middle of the order bat makes a difference every night. Cespedes wont win an MVP ever but he is still a quality power bat. Yesterday they got shut down 1-0 by an average pitcher Guthrie. There's no way to say if Cespedes would have made a difference yesterday but you can't argue the offense got weaker. Moss, Donaldson and Norris have had great years in the middle of the order but we will just have to see what effect it has.

Its obviously World Series or bust for Oakland

 

[seahawksfan234]

If the A's weren't looking to re-sign Cespedes beyond 2015 when his current contract ends, they were just going to trade him this offseason or before the AS break next year, and probably get even less in return.

Beane's not an idiot, and Cespedes is about to get expensive, so I think any logical person understands that what I said above is probably the case.

The A's are already a powerhouse, and just improved their rotation so it can contend with a frightening rotation like Scherzer/Price/Verlander this season. The move is pretty damn good if you think rationally.

They won't be able to re-sign Lester either and the Athletics already have a great and very deep rotation. I don't think Beane's an idiot, quite the opposite actually. I just don't think he made the right move. They will have Lester for the rest of the year, then he is gone. They would've had this year and next year of Cespedes. Don't get me wrong, this trade makes them even better, but I would personally rather have 200 games of Cespedes over 10-15 starts of Lester.

I was premature to say that the trade was asinine, but I still wouldn't have done it myself.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Then again, it's not as if Cespedes is hitting .320 with a .950 OPS or something that good...the past 2 years, he's a .247 hitter with a 108 OPS+, so he hasn't been anything special since his rookie year in 2012 (and it's possible that he peaked in that rookie year).

Cespedes had only the 6th best OPS on that A's starting lineup this year (and 5th last year) so it's not like they were trading their top hitter.

I see it like this:

They went from 3.0 WAR with Cespedes to -0.4 WAR with Jonny Gomes and that is over the remainder of this year and the entirety of next year if they don't find a viable replacement for Cespedes. Does Jon Lester provide them with that much value over his replacement?

 

[cezero]

They won't be able to re-sign Lester either...

Never said they would.

50 games + playoffs with Lester, or a max of another 162 games with Cespedes (though as I said earlier, I think Beane would have traded him this offseason). That was the decision unless Beane has drastically changed the way he builds rosters, and would consider giving Cespedes a 6-8 year contract for $13-15 million per year or whatever Cespedes is going to get.

It wasn't a decision aimed at long term returns. It was aimed at putting them in a position to compete with a powerhouse like the Tigers who now have Scherzer, Verlander, and Price, to say nothing of the NL teams out there. The great thing about the A's offense is that it's dynamic, and does not rely on any one or two batters to generate production. One last time, I don't think they were going to keep Cespedes beyond this year.

I wouldn't be surprised if Beane actually started floating Cespedes out there during this past offseason.