Will LeBron ever be seen as better than Kobe in the eyes of Lakers fans?

[tlance]

I've presented more facts and links than any of you combined.

Here are some facts for you:

Let’s start with accolades:

MVP awards- this is a big one:
LeBron 4, Kobe 1

Finals MVP:
LeBron 4, Kobe 2

All NBA
LeBron had 13 first team, 3 2nd team and 4 3rd team
Kobe had first team 11 times, 2nd and 3rd team each twice

All defense- the only one that skews toward Kobe
LeBron had 5 1st team selections and 1 2nd team
Kobe had 9 1st team and 3 second team

Statistical achievement:

Scoring:
LeBron has averaged 27.0 PPG for his career so far. He won 1 scoring title

Kobe averaged 25.0 PPG for his career and won 2 scoring titles.

LeBron has shot 50.7% from the field, 35% from 3 and 73.7% from the line with a career true shooting percentage of 59%.

Kobe shot 44.7% from the field, 32.9% from 3 and 83.7% from the line with a career true shooting percentage of 55.0%

LeBron is the NBA’s all time leading scorer. Kobe was 4th.

LeBron has averaged more points, scores more efficiently than Kobe. So while people might claim Kobe was a better scorer, the numbers do not support that.

Playmaking:

LeBron has averaged 7.4 assists per game and 3.5 TOs per game with a 2.11 A/TO ratio and a 36.5% assist percentage

Kobe averaged 4.7 assists per game and 3.0 turnovers per game with a 1.56 A/TO ratio and a 24.2 % assist percentage.

There is simply no doubt as to who the better playmaker is.

Rebounding

LeBron averages 7.5 rebounds per game with an 11.4% rebound percentage

Kobe averaged 5.2 rebounds per game with an 8.1% rebound percentage

Also no question who is better in this area

Defense:

I don’t believe there are any great defensive metrics that tell the full story, so not going to waste time with them. But, while the accolades lean Kobe, the advanced stats skew heavily toward LeBron.

My opinion is that both were elite perimeter defenders in their prime, and average to slightly above in the later years.

Advanced stats:

LeBron has a career PER of 26.9, a career usage rate of 31.5%. He has amassed 270.1 total win shares with a win share/48 of .221, a BPM of 8.6 and a VORP of
155.9

Kobe had a career PER of 22.9 with a usage rate of 31.8%. He posted 172.7 win shares with a win share per 48 of .170 a BPM of 4.6 and a VORP of 80.1

Sorry dude, but this simply isn’t even a fair fight. The numbers overwhelmingly favor LeBron. Even the area many would argue Kobe was better at (scoring) he wasn’t really better.

 

[msgkings322]

And remember stats are like rings. just one more tool in the bucket of this debate.

Uh, no. Stop contradicting yourself. We agreed rings hardly matter for this debate. And stats are not 'just another tool' they are the literal record of how well these players played the game. We know that LeBron was a more prolific and efficient scorer than Kobe because they keep track of it with statistics. We know he was a better rebounder and passer too, the same way. We know he had far more great seasons as well, and far more MVPs, all shown by numbers. Numbers are just the recording of what these guys did. They are the facts.

 

[dtgold88]

wait...but AI says Kobe more elegant. And better instincts?

 

[trojanfan12]

Quotes from players and coaches and what AI thinks, all you have given me are wait for it. Opinions!

lol

You really don't understand what an opinion is, do you?

A player, expressing their opinion, does not make that opinion a fact.

It's still an opinion, it's just an opinion from a different source.

 

[trojanfan12]

What does that mean?

It means the facts don't support his opinion, so he's ignoring them.

 

[Rambunctious]

lol

You really don't understand what an opinion is, do you?

A player, expressing their opinion, does not make that opinion a fact.

It's still an opinion, it's just an opinion from a different source.

Are you serious? I gave my opinion on Kobe and have spent two days now defending it. Give me a break man.

 

[Rambunctious]

Here are some facts for you:

Let’s start with accolades:

MVP awards- this is a big one:
LeBron 4, Kobe 1

Finals MVP:
LeBron 4, Kobe 2

All NBA
LeBron had 13 first team, 3 2nd team and 4 3rd team
Kobe had first team 11 times, 2nd and 3rd team each twice

All defense- the only one that skews toward Kobe
LeBron had 5 1st team selections and 1 2nd team
Kobe had 9 1st team and 3 second team

Statistical achievement:

Scoring:
LeBron has averaged 27.0 PPG for his career so far. He won 1 scoring title

Kobe averaged 25.0 PPG for his career and won 2 scoring titles.

LeBron has shot 50.7% from the field, 35% from 3 and 73.7% from the line with a career true shooting percentage of 59%.

Kobe shot 44.7% from the field, 32.9% from 3 and 83.7% from the line with a career true shooting percentage of 55.0%

LeBron is the NBA’s all time leading scorer. Kobe was 4th.

LeBron has averaged more points, scores more efficiently than Kobe. So while people might claim Kobe was a better scorer, the numbers do not support that.

Playmaking:

LeBron has averaged 7.4 assists per game and 3.5 TOs per game with a 2.11 A/TO ratio and a 36.5% assist percentage

Kobe averaged 4.7 assists per game and 3.0 turnovers per game with a 1.56 A/TO ratio and a 24.2 % assist percentage.

There is simply no doubt as to who the better playmaker is.

Rebounding

LeBron averages 7.5 rebounds per game with an 11.4% rebound percentage

Kobe averaged 5.2 rebounds per game with an 8.1% rebound percentage

Also no question who is better in this area

Defense:

I don’t believe there are any great defensive metrics that tell the full story, so not going to waste time with them. But, while the accolades lean Kobe, the advanced stats skew heavily toward LeBron.

My opinion is that both were elite perimeter defenders in their prime, and average to slightly above in the later years.

Advanced stats:

LeBron has a career PER of 26.9, a career usage rate of 31.5%. He has amassed 270.1 total win shares with a win share/48 of .221, a BPM of 8.6 and a VORP of
155.9

Kobe had a career PER of 22.9 with a usage rate of 31.8%. He posted 172.7 win shares with a win share per 48 of .170 a BPM of 4.6 and a VORP of 80.1

Sorry dude, but this simply isn’t even a fair fight. The numbers overwhelmingly favor LeBron. Even the area many would argue Kobe was better at (scoring) he wasn’t really better.

You need to go back to the start of this debate and catch up. You can't hop in at the last second and understand what's been said.

 

[Rambunctious]

It means the facts don't support his opinion, so he's ignoring them.

I'm going to guess you haven't read a single post of mine made today. Am I right?

 

[Jordan23]

Na,

 

[tlance]

You need to go back to the start of this debate and catch up. You can't hop in at the last second and understand what's been said.

LOL.

I have been here from start.

And I have read every post of yours stating opinions and calling for facts.

I just provided a ton of facts and this is the best you can do?

 

[msgkings322]

Are you serious? I gave my opinion on Kobe and have spent two days now defending it. Give me a break man.

Bruh. Quit while you're behind.

 

[trojanfan12]

Are you serious? I gave my opinion on Kobe and have spent two days now defending it. Give me a break man.

That's fine but quit saying you are using facts to defend it.

You are defending your opinion with other opinions.

 

[msgkings322]

I'm going to guess you haven't read a single post of mine made today. Am I right?

He's not missing much. What's worse is you read posts and don't understand them.

 

[Rambunctious]

LOL.

I have been here from start.

And I have read every post of yours stating opinions and calling for facts.

I just provided a ton of facts and this is the best you can do?

Then your comprehension needs some help. I posted numerous statements from players and coaches who either agree with me or says basically its too close to call. You guys are watching LeBron today and it may have stunted your opinion about Kobe and the condition of the league today and yesterday.
Its just my opinion man. Why does it trigger you guys so much? I won't stop defending my opinion although I offered to agree and disagree but you guys just can't accept my opinion so we can do this the rest of the year if you want.

 

[msgkings322]

Then your comprehension needs some help. I posted numerous statements from players and coaches who either agree with me or says basically its too close to call. You guys are watching LeBron today and it may have stunted your opinion about Kobe and the condition of the league today and yesterday.
Its just my opinion man. Why does it trigger you guys so much? I won't stop defending my opinion although I offered to agree and disagree but you guys just can't accept my opinion so we can do this the rest of the year if you want.

You're the one who's triggered. Why does it trigger you so much when we prove your opinion is incorrect? Do you plan to keep arguing until we agree with you?

Of course we agree to disagree, we definitely agree that we disagree with your dumb opinion. If you think you're going to eventually get us to say 'ok your opinion is just as accurate as ours' you're in the wrong forum LOL

 

[Rambunctious]

That's fine but quit saying you are using facts to defend it.

You are defending your opinion with other opinions.

I never said the word fact. This has been opinion based from the start. I posted numerous statements of players and coaches who agree with me. That's their opinion. I posted what AI said and AI agrees with me. But you guys have some kind of hang up on this question. I don't get it. I offered to agree and disagree and you guys just won't stop. So neither will I.

 

[Rambunctious]

Now you guys are just lying about what I said.

 

[tlance]

Then your comprehension needs some help. I posted numerous statements from players and coaches who either agree with me or says basically its too close to call. You guys are watching LeBron today and it may have stunted your opinion about Kobe and the condition of the league today and yesterday.
Its just my opinion man. Why does it trigger you guys so much? I won't stop defending my opinion although I offered to agree and disagree but you guys just can't accept my opinion so we can do this the rest of the year if you want.

Yes.

You quoted a couple former players who also have unsubstantiated opinions on this.

Also quoted a couple more like former players like KG who did not say Kobe was better, but you pretended that they did.

And yet when faced with actual facts?

You come back with absolutely nothing but rehashing a very small number of players who share your bad opinion.

 

[msgkings322]

I never said the word fact. This has been opinion based from the start. I posted numerous statements of players and coaches who agree with me. That's their opinion. I posted what AI said and AI agrees with me. But you guys have some kind of hang up on this question. I don't get it. I offered to agree and disagree and you guys just won't stop. So neither will I.

I agree that we disagree. You think Kobe is better. We disagree because he's not, LeBron is. And we proved it with facts...as you just said, you haven't posted any facts to support your incorrect opinion.

 

[tlance]

I've presented more facts and links than any of you combined.

Hmmmm….

Sounds like you claiming you posted facts and calling for the LeBron supporters to refute.

Interesting.