Will Julius Peppers go down as a top 10 defensive player of all time?

[PredatorPeppers]

Former players are just put on to high a pedestal, players from today are just as good as players of yesteryear.

 

[Stomp]

John Abraham playing in the same era with only 5 more games played has 9 more forced fumbles and 14 more sacks than Peppers both are great players,maybe hall of famers, and maybe top 50 all time...

 

[bigdeal701]

I know he had 114 sacks, Ware just passed him for most sacks ever recorded by a Cowboy. Ware is better than Martin, so is Peppers, and Peppers is better than both.

Well I guess you are entitled to your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. Ware has been a beast, 116 sacks in just 9 seasons. Ware has 116 sacks to Peppers 115.5, and has played 3 less seasons. My list would be 1. Ware .2 Martin 3. Peppers of those three. I would put Peppers in the top 10 of defensive ends, but he is not top 10 in defensive players all time.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

The only Bears defender possibly better than him was Dick Butkus, Peppers is better than Singletary, Urlacher, Briggs, Tillman, Dent, Hampton, etc.

 

[Naughtymax]

No. top-50 for sure. top 30 maybe. Top 10 not a chance. Strahan was better, for God's sake, and he's barely a first-ballot HOF guy.

 

[PredatorPeppers]

John Abraham playing in the same era with only 5 more games played has 9 more forced fumbles and 14 more sacks than Peppers both are great players,maybe hall of famers, and maybe top 50 all time...

Peppers is a way better player than John Abraham, Abraham is a one trick pony pass rusher, Peppers is an all around force that plays the run as well as the pass. Peppers has more tackles, more fumble recoveries, more interceptions, more passes defensed, more stuffs, more touchdowns, more blocked kicks, more double digits sack seasons, more pro bowls, more all-pro teams, more accolades, and a much higher approximate value score. I'd be willing to bet Peppers has more sacks and forced fumbles than John by the time he retires as well. Peppers >>>> Abraham.

Julius Peppers Stats - Chicago Bears - ESPN

Julius Peppers NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Julius Peppers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Abraham Stats - Arizona Cardinals - ESPN

John Abraham NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

John Abraham (American football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[PredatorPeppers]

Well I guess you are entitled to your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. Ware has been a beast, 116 sacks in just 9 seasons. Ware has 116 sacks to Peppers 115.5, and has played 3 less seasons. My list would be 1. Ware .2 Martin 3. Peppers of those three. I would put Peppers in the top 10 of defensive ends, but he is not top 10 in defensive players all time.

Ware also got to play the majority of his career as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 defensive scheme known for getting pass rushers big sack numbers, under Wade Phillips. Also played in Rob Ryan's defensive scheme as a 3-4 OLB. He had the opportunity to play on an aggressive defense that blitzed and got to see plenty of 1 on 1's vs tight ends and running backs.

Peppers has played his entire career as a 4-3 defensive end in a bend but don't break defense that rarely ever blitzed, meaning he got double teamed more than Ware because the opposing teams offensive line had less players to worry about blocking.

Peppers is also a better all around player than Ware is, Peppers is better against the run, he's also better at getting interceptions, passes defensed, recovering fumbles, both are even at forcing fumbles, Peppers is also better at blocking kicks, has scored more touchdowns, and is just all around more dominant than Ware is.

Peppers > Ware although both should be first ballot hall of famers.

 

[PredatorPeppers]

I don't see how stating the truth is so funny?

 

[PredatorPeppers]

No. top-50 for sure. top 30 maybe. Top 10 not a chance. Strahan was better, for God's sake, and he's barely a first-ballot HOF guy.

Strahan was not a first ballot hall of famer because he was eligible this year but did not make it in, Warren Sapp did though and there was a debate over who deserved it more. Peppers will be a first ballot hall of famer.

Also, Strahan was a very good player, but he is not of the caliber of Julius Peppers who is a notch above Strahan. Peppers so far currently in his 12th season has more forced fumbles, more passes defensed, more interceptions, more blocked kicks, more touchdowns, more double digits sack seasons, more pro bowls, and the same number of all-pro teams. Strahan played in 15 seasons, if Peppers plays a few more seasons, he'll also finish with more sacks, more fumble recoveries, more all pro-teams, etc. Peppers >> Strahan.

Julius Peppers NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Michael Strahan NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[bigdeal701]

Ware also got to play the majority of his career as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 defensive scheme known for getting pass rushers big sack numbers, under Wade Phillips. Also played in Rob Ryan's defensive scheme as a 3-4 OLB. He had the opportunity to play on an aggressive defense that blitzed and got to see plenty of 1 on 1's vs tight ends and running backs.

Peppers has played his entire career as a 4-3 defensive end in a bend but don't break defense that rarely ever blitzed, meaning he got double teamed more than Ware because the opposing teams offensive line had less players to worry about blocking.

Peppers is also a better all around player than Ware is, Peppers is better against the run, he's also better at getting interceptions, passes defensed, recovering fumbles, both are even at forcing fumbles, Peppers is also better at blocking kicks, has scored more touchdowns, and is just all around more dominant than Ware is.

Peppers > Ware although both should be first ballot hall of famers.

So now you're going to make excuses for him, Ok I got it. If he is top 10 all time, it should not matter what system he plays in. Ware has played his entire career on a horrible defense, meaning he hasn't had a lot of help. Yet he still has 116 sacks in 9 years, and I guess you want to believe he's never seen double teams? Like I said everyone has an opinion, they are like A-holes and elbows, everyone has one.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

I don't see how stating the truth is so funny?

The Approximate Value (AV) method is an attempt to put a single number on the seasonal value of a player at any position from any year (since 1950). Essentially, AV is a substitute for --- and a significant improvement upon, in my opinion --- metrics like 'number of seasons as a starter' or 'number of times making the pro bowl' or the like. You should think of it as being essentially like those two metrics, but with interpolation in between. That is, 'number of seasons as a starter' is a reasonable starting point if you're trying to measure, say, how good a particular draft class is, or what kind of player you can expect to get with the #13 pick in the draft. But obviously some starters are better than others. Starters on good teams are, as a group, better than starters on bad teams. Starting WRs who had lots of receiving yards are, as a group, better than starting WRs who did not have many receiving yards. Starters who made the pro bowl are, as a group, better than starters who didn't, and so on. And non-starters aren't worthless, so they get some points too.

JP - 53
Singletary - 30

But, I give credit where credit is due. You were correct about the others. You do owe Mr. Singletary an apology though...

 

[PredatorPeppers]

So now you're going to make excuses for him, Ok I got it. If he is top 10 all time, it should not matter what system he plays in. Ware has played his entire career on a horrible defense, meaning he hasn't had a lot of help. Yet he still has 116 sacks in 9 years, and I guess you want to believe he's never seen double teams? Like I said everyone has an opinion, they are like A-holes and elbows, everyone has one.

Not making excuses, just stating facts. Also, Ware has played with some pretty good players in his time, including Terrence Newman, Jay Ratliff, Greg Ellis, Sean Lee, Jason Hatcher, etc. Sure Ware has seen double teams, just not as many as Peppers due to scheme and position played. Ware is great, Peppers is greater.

 

[PredatorPeppers]

The Approximate Value (AV) method is an attempt to put a single number on the seasonal value of a player at any position from any year (since 1950). Essentially, AV is a substitute for --- and a significant improvement upon, in my opinion --- metrics like 'number of seasons as a starter' or 'number of times making the pro bowl' or the like. You should think of it as being essentially like those two metrics, but with interpolation in between. That is, 'number of seasons as a starter' is a reasonable starting point if you're trying to measure, say, how good a particular draft class is, or what kind of player you can expect to get with the #13 pick in the draft. But obviously some starters are better than others. Starters on good teams are, as a group, better than starters on bad teams. Starting WRs who had lots of receiving yards are, as a group, better than starting WRs who did not have many receiving yards. Starters who made the pro bowl are, as a group, better than starters who didn't, and so on. And non-starters aren't worthless, so they get some points too.

JP - 53
Singletary - 30

But, I give credit where credit is due. You were correct about the others. You do owe Mr. Singletary an apology though...

Peppers is better than Singletary and will have a higher career AV than Singletary by the time he retires.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Peppers is better than Singletary and will have a higher career AV than Singletary by the time he retires.

Well, until that happens, it is just your opinion. Right now, that ain't so. And that's a fact...

 

[NinerSickness]

Amazing counter argument.

 

[PredatorPeppers]

Well, until that happens, it is just your opinion. Right now, that ain't so. And that's a fact...

It will happen.

 

[NCChiFan]

He will tear the Rams a new one this Sunday, wait and see.

Care to retract this statement. He was a non factor today, didn't do much of anything. Did he even play?

 

[PredatorPeppers]

Care to retract this statement. He was a non factor today, didn't do much of anything. Did he even play?

Nope, he would have torn the Rams a new one if he actually played on a defense that was half way competent and wouldn't allow the Rams to stuff it down their throats with the run. The Rams double and triple teamed Peppers all game long, as well as running away from him for most of the game. Peppers still got some good pressure though and forced a couple of early throws. Football isn't a one man sport, Pep needs his Bears teammates to play like Bears, not Cubs. I hope he gets released in the off-season and signs with the Broncos or Patriots, that way he can win a super bowl ring and play with a lead for most of the game, so he can pin his ears back and chase the QB all game long so he can break the single season sack record.

 

[SteelersPride]

This has to actually be mr peppers posting, no one creates a name and only posts about him.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Amazing counter argument.

Did you read on? I am guessing, "no"...