Will Julius Peppers go down as a top 10 defensive player of all time?

[PredatorPeppers]

Of all time is a big, BIG argument considering the greatest that have ever played.

Your list left off Dick "Night Train" Lane and Dick Lebeau of the Lions back in the '50's.

There were several more Steelers that could make that list just from the 1970's alone. Start throwing on some Cowboys from that time period, along with Ronnie Lott, etc and don't forget that '85 Bears squad OR the Ravens of 2000 and I don't see how he makes it on to the list of the top 10.

Night Train Lane and Lebeau weren't as dominant as Peppers.

The Steelers from the 70's had some great defensive players including Jack Ham, Jack Lambert, Mel Blount and Mean Joe Greene, Peppers is better than all of them except Greene who I believe is about even with Peppers.

The Cowboys had some great defensive players like Bob Lilly and Randy White, I'll take Peppers over either though.

85' Bears had Dent, Singletary, Hamtpon, Marshall, etc. Peppers is better than all them.

 

[PredatorPeppers]

No, and I will give you one simple reason, Peppers has never consistently played to his potential. If he did he would average 18-20 sacks a season. He plays when he wants to play but will take plays off if he feels like it. In his career, I have never seen him give 100% for an entire game. I saw it in Carolina and Chicago. Charles Johnson does not have half the athletic gifts of Julius Peppers but he gives it his all on every play, which is why I am glad the Panthers kept Johnson and let Peppers go.

I have no doubt Peppers will make the HOF. But he will never, ever, be a Top 10 defensive player.

I have watched Peppers play his entire career and it is overblown hog wash that he takes a bunch of plays off, the players and coaches of the NFL seem to agree with me as well if you look a couple of pages back and read the evidence I have provided as far that goes.

No player has ever accomplished 18 to 20 sacks every year, not even the great Reggie White, your expectations are too high. No player has ever had 2 seasons of at least 20 sacks for that matter.

 

[PredatorPeppers]

Reggie White NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Reggie White

Lawrence Taylor NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Lawrence Taylor

Dick Butkus NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Dick Butkus

Rod Woodson NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Rod Woodson

Joe Greene NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Joe Greene

Ray Lewis NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Ray Lewis

Deacon Jones NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Deacon Jones

Ronnie Lott NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Ronnie Lott

Alan Page NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Alan Page

Bruce Smith NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Bruce Smith

Deion Sanders NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Deion Sanders

Julius Peppers NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com Julius Peppers

Peppers will only continue to add to what he has already accomplished the longer he plays.

 

[ONEPANTHERSFAN]

I have watched Peppers play his entire career and it is overblown hog wash that he takes a bunch of plays off, the players and coaches of the NFL seem to agree with me as well if you look a couple of pages back and read the evidence I have provided as far that goes.

No player has ever accomplished 18 to 20 sacks every year, not even the great Reggie White, your expectations are too high. No player has ever had 2 seasons of at least 20 sacks for that matter.

Peppers had that kind of potential. I saw it when he came in to the NFL. I also saw him take plays off in college, both on the basketball court and the football field. It was my one worry when the Panthers drafted him. Unfortunately, my concerns were proven correct. I have seen him make all pro tackles look amazingly bad and have seen him stopped cold by 2nd and 3rd stringers. When he left the Panthers all I heard from the "experts" (and I use that term very loosely) was that the Panthers were losing their defensive leader. I cannot speak for what happened in the locker room. On the field, Peppers WAS NEVER A LEADER. When Mike Minter retired from the Panthers they tried to hand Peppers the leadership role. He did not want it. It was a rookie LB, John Beason, who took over the leadership of the Panthers defense. Again, amazing potential, never fully realized it, and he only has himself to blame because he did not want too.

Oh, and Reggie White, even when he was a shadow of the player he had once been, finishing up his career in Carolina, still gave 100% on every play. That is what separates the Reggie Whites from the Julius Peppers.

 

[PredatorPeppers]

Peppers had that kind of potential. I saw it when he came in to the NFL. I also saw him take plays off in college, both on the basketball court and the football field. It was my one worry when the Panthers drafted him. Unfortunately, my concerns were proven correct. I have seen him make all pro tackles look amazingly bad and have seen him stopped cold by 2nd and 3rd stringers. When he left the Panthers all I heard from the "experts" (and I use that term very loosely) was that the Panthers were losing their defensive leader. I cannot speak for what happened in the locker room. On the field, Peppers WAS NEVER A LEADER. When Mike Minter retired from the Panthers they tried to hand Peppers the leadership role. He did not want it. It was a rookie LB, John Beason, who took over the leadership of the Panthers defense. Again, amazing potential, never fully realized it, and he only has himself to blame because he did not want too.

Oh, and Reggie White, even when he was a shadow of the player he had once been, finishing up his career in Carolina, still gave 100% on every play. That is what separates the Reggie Whites from the Julius Peppers.

Once again read what I posted about what other players and coaches around the NFL have had to say about Peppers, as well as what Peppers said himself about taking plays off a couple of pages back which I posted. It just isn't true, sure he may not go 100% on every play, but neither do most players in the NFL, they would be dog tired by the 4th quarter.

Peppers is not a Ray Lewis or Brian Dawkins type leader, that is not his personality to be that way, not a knock against Peppers, people are different. But to say he didn't have any leadership or any thing to say ever on the field to motivate his teammates is just false. That doesn't make Peppers lazy, or say that he didn't realize his full potential because of his lack of being a Ray Lewis type leader.

 

[ONEPANTHERSFAN]

Once again read what I posted about what other players and coaches around the NFL have had to say about Peppers, as well as what Peppers said himself about taking plays off a couple of pages back which I posted. It just isn't true, sure he may not go 100% on every play, but neither do most players in the NFL, they would be dog tired by the 4th quarter.

Peppers is not a Ray Lewis or Brian Dawkins type leader, that is not his personality to be that way, not a knock against Peppers, people are different. But to say he didn't have any leadership or any thing to say ever on the field to motivate his teammates is just false. That doesn't make Peppers lazy, or say that he didn't realize his full potential because of his lack of being a Ray Lewis type leader.

I've read, seen, and heard all those things before. It does not change what happens on the field. His stats show he has played great, they do not make him a great player. Go back and try to find Mike Minter's retirement announcement. Watch Peppers face when he is told, "it's yours now." He looked like a kid who had not done his homework being called upon to work a problem on the blackboard. When the Panthers needed him to step up and take over on the field, he backed away. Don't believe me, watch the games. I truly believe that is one of the reasons he signed with Chicago, because he did not have to be an on the field leader. Watch Ray Lewis and show me when he took plays off. When he did not try as hard as he could have. Ray Lewis >>>>>Julius Peppers. And no, Peppers has never realized his full potential. His potential was to be the greatest DE of all time. Maybe even the greatest D lineman or Defensive player of all time. His promise was that great when he started. The only thing that held him back was himself.

 

[NinerSickness]

Ray Lewis >>>>>Julius Peppers.

I have to strongly disagree with that. And not being an on-field leader doesn't take away from greatness. Donte Whitner is unanimously the leader of the 49ers' defense, but he's still a liability in coverage. And he's nowhere near as good as Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, Navorro Bowman, Eric Reid, Justin Smith or even Ray McDonald.

 

[NCChiFan]

I have to strongly disagree with that. And not being an on-field leader doesn't take away from greatness. Donte Whitner is unanimously the leader of the 49ers' defense, but he's still a liability in coverage. And he's nowhere near as good as Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, Navorro Bowman, Eric Reid, Justin Smith or even Ray McDonald.

Hmm, no Ray Lewis is one of the top 2 best MLB to ever play the game (Butkus the other). Not sure you could say that about Peppers and DE... Like I posted, I would rather have Richard Dent start for me at DE than Peppers on my all Bear team, forgetting for a second the likes of Reggie White or Lawernce Taylor ( who could have been a DE in a 4-3).

Very few folks are game changers... Deon Sanders, Butkus, Ray Lewis, Taylor, White, B. Smith (possibly) it is really a very limited list. Currently, there are 17 players with career sacks above Peppers and several of them are currently playing, like Jared Allen, Abraham and Ware.

 

[Midnightangel]

Night Train Lane and Lebeau weren't as dominant as Peppers.

The Steelers from the 70's had some great defensive players including Jack Ham, Jack Lambert, Mel Blount and Mean Joe Greene, Peppers is better than all of them except Greene who I believe is about even with Peppers.

The Cowboys had some great defensive players like Bob Lilly and Randy White, I'll take Peppers over either though.

85' Bears had Dent, Singletary, Hamtpon, Marshall, etc. Peppers is better than all them.

They're both in the HoF - so yeah, they were.

They were the keys to those championship teams.

Peppers is better than Mel Blount? You think Greene is even with Peppers?! Wow. Just wow. Peppers isn't worthy of carrying their jocks.

We're talking about a guy that might not even make the HoF.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

FWIW Anthony Munoz said the hardest player he ever had to block by far was Bruce Smith. He said he was strong, quick off the line and had great speed for a man his size.

 

[jdwills126]

Even if you remove the pre 1985 guys from the mix, No Way, No How! Bruce Smith, Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas, Rod Woodson, Charles Woodson, Reggie White, Ray Lewis, Junior Seau, Deon Sanders.

HM
Derrick Brooks
Brian Urlacher
Jared Allen

 

[PredatorPeppers]

I've read, seen, and heard all those things before. It does not change what happens on the field. His stats show he has played great, they do not make him a great player. Go back and try to find Mike Minter's retirement announcement. Watch Peppers face when he is told, "it's yours now." He looked like a kid who had not done his homework being called upon to work a problem on the blackboard. When the Panthers needed him to step up and take over on the field, he backed away. Don't believe me, watch the games. I truly believe that is one of the reasons he signed with Chicago, because he did not have to be an on the field leader. Watch Ray Lewis and show me when he took plays off. When he did not try as hard as he could have. Ray Lewis >>>>>Julius Peppers. And no, Peppers has never realized his full potential. His potential was to be the greatest DE of all time. Maybe even the greatest D lineman or Defensive player of all time. His promise was that great when he started. The only thing that held him back was himself.

We simply don't agree, just because Peppers isn't a rah rah type leader, that doesn't negate his dominance as a football player. I also don't agree that he took plays off, I too have watched just about all of his games and he plays hard and dominates football games. And by the time he retires, I think he will be considered one of the greatest defensive lineman and overall defensive players of all time, he already is in my book.

 

[PredatorPeppers]

Hmm, no Ray Lewis is one of the top 2 best MLB to ever play the game (Butkus the other). Not sure you could say that about Peppers and DE... Like I posted, I would rather have Richard Dent start for me at DE than Peppers on my all Bear team, forgetting for a second the likes of Reggie White or Lawernce Taylor ( who could have been a DE in a 4-3).

Very few folks are game changers... Deon Sanders, Butkus, Ray Lewis, Taylor, White, B. Smith (possibly) it is really a very limited list. Currently, there are 17 players with career sacks above Peppers and several of them are currently playing, like Jared Allen, Abraham and Ware.

It's not all about sacks, Peppers does more than just get sacks, he takes on double teams to allow his teammates to make plays, he plays the run as well as any 4-3 DE in the NFL, he puts pressure on the QB, he knocks down passes, gets interceptions, forces fumbles, recovers fumbles, blocks kicks, etc. Peppers shuts down his side of the field quite often.

 

[The Derski]

I wouldn't even put him as a top 10 Bears defender of all time.

Don't be full of yourself. Peppers is definitely in the Bears top 10 probably top 5.

 

[PredatorPeppers]

They're both in the HoF - so yeah, they were.

They were the keys to those championship teams.

Peppers is better than Mel Blount? You think Greene is even with Peppers?! Wow. Just wow. Peppers isn't worthy of carrying their jocks.

We're talking about a guy that might not even make the HoF.

Mel Blount isn't worthy of carrying Peppers jock.

Peppers will be a first ballot hall of famer and is more dominant than any of the above mentioned players except Joe Greene, who is he is pretty even with.

 

[PredatorPeppers]

Even if you remove the pre 1985 guys from the mix, No Way, No How! Bruce Smith, Neil Smith, Derrick Thomas, Rod Woodson, Charles Woodson, Reggie White, Ray Lewis, Junior Seau, Deon Sanders.

HM
Derrick Brooks
Brian Urlacher
Jared Allen

Peppers is better than most the guys you mentioned here.

 

[Midnightangel]

Mel Blount isn't worthy of carrying Peppers jock.

Peppers will be a first ballot hall of famer and is more dominant than any of the above mentioned players except Joe Greene, who is he is pretty even with.

Mel could kick Pepper's ass straight up.

When I think of top ten defenders all time, Peppers isn't on the list.

If he's on yours you're either a homer or don't know the history of the NFL.

 

[bigdeal701]

Mel Blount isn't worthy of carrying Peppers jock.

Peppers will be a first ballot hall of famer and is more dominant than any of the above mentioned players except Joe Greene, who is he is pretty even with.

Boy have I heard so doozies in my time, but this one takes the cake. I hate the Steelers, hated them even more in the 70's, but if you think Peppers is better than all those 70's Steelers your smoking some good stuff. Football today is powder puff to what it was back then, those guys mentioned where not just good, they were down right mean. They would knock the dodo out of you and not think twice. Peppers is a very good football player, but probably rides the pine on the 70's Steelers teams.

 

[bigdeal701]

Youngsters today.

 

[bigdeal701]

I find it funny that Harvey Martin doesn't make your list, not even HM.