Will AD want to be traded after this?

[tlance]

That's what I keep hearing but if you make the right pick at 4 I think you can still get a player that is going to be very very good.

I think we can all agree Zion and Morant are tier 1, some might put Morant higher than Zion potential wise.

Then you have Barrett. I think there are other players in this draft that will be better than Barrett and even right now have just as much game.
I am leaving Garland out of that conversation bc of the limited college play.

I think Culver and Hunter can be guys that are still really good picks...the gap between Barrett and those 2 guys really isn't too big imo. Honestly, there isn't a gap at all.

Plus the Lakers core players in the deal are WAY BETTER than the Knicks.

A package of Ingram and Kuzma is way better than Knox and DSJ imo....as much as I rag on Ball he is a better player than Knox or DSJ

I am not a DSJ fan.

But I think you are underestimating the opportunity the Pels have in front of them to immediately acquire Zion's best friend who is also the 3rd best prospect the class. A move like that could generate years of goodwill and get theor relationship off to a great start.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I am not a DSJ fan.

But I think you are underestimating the opportunity the Pels have in front of them to immediately acquire Zion's best friend who is also the 3rd best prospect the class. A move like that could generate years of goodwill and get theor relationship off to a great start.

But the goal for Griffin when he was hired was to get the BEST deal for AD. Does Barrett make this the best deal bc he played with this kid for a year at Duke? It will keep Zion happy but it will only take you so far if you don't win. You will be able to build around these guys on their rookie contracts but is this the BEST deal. I think it is debatable. No way this is the best deal by far though.

Culver or Hunter < Barrett ----debatable but Barrett is supposed to be better
Ingram >>>> Knox
Ball/Kuzma >>>> DSJ

From the Knicks deal you get a guy that could be a star but he also could be Michael Beasley. Barrett is a serious question mark, it will help him playing with Zion though, can't deny that.

DSJ is not that good. He is not really much of an asset in this deal. Kuzma and Ingram we already know are assets when healthy. Knox didn't have a very good rookie year.

 

[tlance]

So what offer is better?

LA - Ingram or Ball, Kuzma, Hart and #4 (Garland, Culver or Hunter)

NY - Knox, DSJ, Mitchell and #3 (most likely Barrett)

Boston - Tatum, Theis, Robert Williams (a combo of picks #14, #20, #22)

Portland - McCollum, Nurkic, (take back Hill contract)

I added Portland bc I think they seriously need to think about adding AD.

McCollum and Nurkic combo is the best player combo BUT they take back $27M even if they dump the Hill contract. All the other offers they take back less money (rookie contracts) plus younger players.

I will lay it out by piece. Not about the best players, it is about trade value.

You are roughy equating the 3 and 4 picks. They aren't equal in this draft.

Ingram- nice player with health questions. Only has 1 year until RFA. Trade value is limited by the fact that his acquiring team will have to extend him next year. He is an asset at 7 million next year. But do you want to pay him 25 million + in 2020? You might have to.

Kuzma- great bargain. Lots of trade value.

Hart- he is a bargain and has some trade value, burn he also cratered last year and killed most of it. He is basically a throw in.

DSJ- has upside, don't like his game. But still has 2 years in rookie deal to assess. Trade value is lower than Ingram but not by that much because of the extra year.

Robinson- loads of upside and cheap with 3 years left on rookie deal More trade value than any Laker because gen has more upside than Kuzma and 1 more year under rookie deal.

Knox- loads of upside also. Trade value a little less than Kuzma, more than Hart.

Gap between 3 and 4 pick is vast also. That is before considering the relationship between Zion and Barrett. And I say that as a huge UVA fan with my guy projected 4.

 

[Vitamike]

Back to the OP's original question.

One thing that has not been discussed, will Zion pull a Manning?

He is without an agent, no shoe deal, so he is eligible to go back to Duke to get his NC title, no?

Maybe his prospects are better going another year at Duke and not getting paid outright.

He has up to 10 days prior to the draft to work a trade from the Pelicans I believe, if he can't strike a deal (I hear he really wanted to go to LA or NY) He can just go back to school and the Pelicans are without Zion and are without AD in 2020.
Wouldn't that be a bust for NOLA?

 

[GNG]

This. Not even Jordan won much until he was in the league a while. Same with LeBron. Rookie Zion, 2nd year Zion won't even be an allstar yet.

Zion might be a bust.

 

[Gman]

Nah.

Tatum's value is down right now. He had a mediocre sophomore season. Lot of reasons for that, but reality is rookie Barrett has more trade value than Tatum today. Robinson has more trade value than all 3 of those Boston picks combined.

The Knicks package in the post I quoted is a lot better. Boston can certainly make a better offer, but would they actually want to?

I don't buy this easy claim that "Tatum's value is down"... nor do I think "mediocre" is an appropriate adjective when you actually factor in the "lot's of reasons" you gloss over. Tatum averaged 16 ppg on a very deep roster.

Barrett is no sure thing at all. Tatum is proven commodity, brings some star/brand power already, and is a nice/clean face of the franchise for the small market Pel's.

I'd say a Celtics offer of:

• Tatum
• Smart (reasonable contract, offers leadership for a young team)
• Williams III
• #14 this year
• Memphis future pick

Is rather clearly a better offer than the Knicks or the Lakers.

 

[Gman]

But I think you are underestimating the opportunity the Pels have in front of them to immediately acquire Zion's best friend who is also the 3rd best prospect the class. A move like that could generate years of goodwill and get theor relationship off to a great start.

And I'd say you are way overestimating this aspect.

Zion is stuck in New Orleans for a long, long time. In no way, shape or form do I think they should be insta-fretting about bringing in his friend to sooth his feelings.

What an overblown reaction to the look on Zion's face when he got the initial news of his new home.

 

[Vitamike]

Back to the OP's original question.

One thing that has not been discussed, will Zion pull a Manning?

He is without an agent, no shoe deal, so he is eligible to go back to Duke to get his NC title, no?

Maybe his prospects are better going another year at Duke and not getting paid outright.

He has up to 10 days prior to the draft to work a trade from the Pelicans I believe, if he can't strike a deal (I hear he really wanted to go to LA or NY) He can just go back to school and the Pelicans are without Zion and are without AD in 2020.
Wouldn't that be a bust for NOLA?

What If Zion Williamson Doesn’t Want to Play for the Pelicans?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I'd say a Celtics offer of:

• Tatum
• Smart (reasonable contract, offers leadership for a young team)
• Williams III
• #14 this year
• Memphis future pick

Is rather clearly a better offer than the Knicks or the Lakers.

You are correct. It is a better offer. Marginally, but still better.

But the Celtics won't do that for a potential one year rental.

 

[msgkings322]

Zion might be a bust.

Indeed!

 

[tlance]

I don't buy this easy claim that "Tatum's value is down"... nor do I think "mediocre" is an appropriate adjective when you actually factor in the "lot's of reasons" you gloss over. Tatum averaged 16 ppg on a very deep roster.

Barrett is no sure thing at all. Tatum is proven commodity, brings some star/brand power already, and is a nice/clean face of the franchise for the small market Pel's.

I'd say a Celtics offer of:

• Tatum
• Smart (reasonable contract, offers leadership for a young team)
• Williams III
• #14 this year
• Memphis future pick

Is rather clearly a better offer than the Knicks or the Lakers.

You are overvaluing our assets because you are looking at them through a Celtics lense and not a Pelicans lense.

Trade value break down:

Tatum vs Barrett:

Tatum is a good player, a young player and a player who has proven he can play a quality role on a good team with upside to be more than that. But he is not on a superstar track. He might just develop into an all star, he might not.

Barrett is completely unproven. He might disappoint. But, he has a higher ceiling than Tatum also a lower floor because we have seen Tatum.

A good team would take Tatum 10 times out of 10. A rebuilding team would prefer Barrett, IMO, because of the upside. Trade value between these 2 pieces is actually very close. I give Tatum a slight edge, but don't be surprised if NOLA prefers Barrett over Tatum for a variety of reasons.

As for the rest of that package?

Knox and Robinson are both more valuable than anything else on the Celtics side by a good bit.

So yeah. The Knicks package is preferable for a rebuilder. The Celtics package would be preferable for a team trying to win today.

 

[seattlefan75]

I think NY could come out fine from this and I think Zion would end up in NO anyway. If NY had the #1 pick they probably would have traded him to NO for AD anyway.

Now the Pelicans still need to trade AD and get something for him because it seems like his time there is over. I doubt they want to trade him to LA and the only teams that can package something worth it would be Boston with Tatum,Brown, this years 1st round pick and something else which really isn't that great.

Now the Knicks with the 3rd pick will either have Ja Morant or RJ Barrett available so they could package that player plus Kevin Knox, Alonzo Trier, Frank Ntilikina, plus 2 first round picks I think would be a good package for AD that way he is out of the West and playing the East

 

[Gman]

You are overvaluing our assets because you are looking at them through a Celtics lense and not a Pelicans lense.

Trade value break down:

Tatum vs Barrett:

Tatum is a good player, a young player and a player who has proven he can play a quality role on a good team with upside to be more than that. But he is not on a superstar track. He might just develop into an all star, he might not.

Barrett is completely unproven. He might disappoint. But, he has a higher ceiling than Tatum also a lower floor because we have seen Tatum.

A good team would take Tatum 10 times out of 10. A rebuilding team would prefer Barrett, IMO, because of the upside. Trade value between these 2 pieces is actually very close. I give Tatum a slight edge, but don't be surprised if NOLA prefers Barrett over Tatum for a variety of reasons.

As for the rest of that package?

Knox and Robinson are both more valuable than anything else on the Celtics side by a good bit.

So yeah. The Knicks package is preferable for a rebuilder. The Celtics package would be preferable for a team trying to win today.

Tatum is 21. I don't even buy that any of the "potential" guys you point to in the Knicks package have a "higher ceiling" than him.

It's easy to talk up potential. Heck, 8 or 10 guys in the upcoming draft have a "higher ceiling" than Tatum just because all anyone has to do to achieve that status is talk up blind potential.

In the clear majority of cases, potential doesn't pan out.

Tatum is a great fit on a rebuilding team. He's a guy the Pel's should love to place some chips on rather than go all potential and almost all never done nothin' in the NBA.

 

[Shanemansj13]

What If Zion Williamson Doesn’t Want to Play for the Pelicans?

He was laughing when N.O. got that pick...the look on his face when he looked af RJ lol

 

[tlance]

Tatum is 21. I don't even buy that any of the "potential" guys you point to in the Knicks package have a "higher ceiling" than him.

It's easy to talk up potential. Heck, 8 or 10 guys in the upcoming draft have a "higher ceiling" than Tatum just because all anyone has to do to achieve that status is talk up blind potential.

In the clear majority of cases, potential doesn't pan out.

Tatum is a great fit on a rebuilding team. He's a guy the Pel's should love to place some chips on rather than go all potential and almost all never done nothin' in the NBA.

I believe I said Tatum has more trade value than barrett. But only just.

The other prices have more value than Boston's.

Although admittedly, I glossed over your Memphis pick inclusion. Pretty sure there are protections on that one though.

 

[tlance]

Besides, you all continue to miss the obvious. Well, aside from @Vitamike

What are all the talk shows discussing today?

Will Zion be willing to play in NOLA, or try to force his way out?

I don't think Zion will do that regardless. But you know how to ensure he doesn't and help him fall in love with the city of NEw Orleans?

Trade for his best friend who happens to have more upside than any player listed in the hypothetical offers from the other teams rumored to be in the hunt.

The relationship between a franchise and its franchise player is tenuous. Yes, the Pelicans have him for 8 years. But they would be incredibly short sighted to not go out of its way to show Zion they are committed to him. Trading for Barrett would be a great first step to cement that relationship.

 

[Gman]

Yes, the Pelicans have him for 8 years.

No offense... but ^this point^... (which you sneak in among a lot of other talk)... makes all your other talk sound ridiculous.

They got Zion locked up for a long, long, long time.

In no way, shape or form should New Orleans be wringing their hands over bringing in Zion's "bro" in case it might possibly, maybe make Zion happier for 2nd contract time way, way, way down the line.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Besides, you all continue to miss the obvious. Well, aside from @Vitamike

What are all the talk shows discussing today?

Will Zion be willing to play in NOLA, or try to force his way out?

I don't think Zion will do that regardless. But you know how to ensure he doesn't and help him fall in love with the city of NEw Orleans?

Trade for his best friend who happens to have more upside than any player listed in the hypothetical offers from the other teams rumored to be in the hunt.

The relationship between a franchise and its franchise player is tenuous. Yes, the Pelicans have him for 8 years. But they would be incredibly short sighted to not go out of its way to show Zion they are committed to him. Trading for Barrett would be a great first step to cement that relationship.

Doesnt he only have 10 days to force himself out or does he have until after FA? I think regardless he wont do that imo, you never know though. If a player has to feel comfortable on a team and in a city where you have to trade for his friend you dont want him playing for your franchise and leading your team...he doesnt belong there.

The goal should be finding the most talent around Zion. That Knicks package isnt the best but it is debatable it is close

 

[tlance]

No offense... but ^this point^... (which you sneak in among a lot of other talk)... makes all your other talk sound ridiculous.

They got Zion locked up for a long, long, long time.

In no way, shape or form should New Orleans be wringing their hands over bringing in Zion's "bro" in case it might possibly, maybe make Zion happier for 2nd contract time way, way, way down the line.

8 years seems like a long time.

It really isn't.

Because it takes most future stars a couple years to come into their own at the NBA level, a couple more to gel with the prices around them, then usually a couple more after that to learn to win in the playoffs.

That is a 5-6 year learning curve before most "superstars" are ready and in position to lead a contender.

This is year 6 for Giannis. The Warriors didn't contend until year 6 for Curry. I could go on here.

There are exceptions when you pair the young star with a star veteran, but that is unlikely to happen in NOLA unless AD has a change of heart.

Playing the "8 years is a long time" game and not investing in that relationship with your guy who could be a transcendent player is a dangerous game.

Not to mention, there are obvious perks that come with pairing together 2 dynamic rookies like Zion and Barrett. They both hit RFA and UFA at the same time. Giving the Bucks a full 4 years with their 2 best players on rookie deals to allow them to gel and add pieces around them. Tatum would speed that clock up by 2 years.

 

[SteelersPride]

I didnt read but lets say AD stays, how much cap room do they?

if he goes? how much do they have