What do the RAIDERS need

[idahoraiderfan33]

What do you expect him to say though? I mean every player right now is saying things like this. Brandon Mebane for the Chargers said that the Chargers have more talent on their defense than that of when he played on the Seahawks. Now honestly that is a ridiculous comment but at the same time yeah all teams have high hopes of what their team can be.

Every player says this and that, but not every team has the players we both have either..
We have who i think is the BEST D player in the league, with a sheet load of talent around him, and that's the bottom line.. So what he says has some truth to it, and you know it man, but will never say it..

 

[cdumler7]

cd, here you pimped Cook pretty hard, saying how good he is Pro Ready etc, and now that you guys didn't draft him the guy suddenly can't play?? Cmon man.. Again cd i didn't really look into QBs leading up to the draft, but from what i have seen read etc?? The guy is right there with Goff, the rest are projects..
And mind you i did see plenty of games from Cook as MSU was always on TV but never really in detail..
What this comes down too?? Is Cook better than Lynch?? That remains to be seen, but i can safely say Cook is more advanced at this point in their careers..

And we must remember also cd, Carr is the franchise for the RAIDERS and Cook his back up..
Lynch is the future for you guys..
It was posted everywhere, Cook looks outstanding!! Are we really shocked by that?? 4 year player at a top School playing in a Pro System, and has all the tools to be a good one.. I mean, i would be shocked if he look crappy!!

See Idaho now you are misquoting me. I said Cook has potential and yes looks to be the most pro ready of the bunch because he played in a pro style system so the jump to the NFL would not be as drastic for him as others. The fact that he struggled to even complete 60% passes though against college players with NFL caliber players surrounding him should cause some worry though of his ability to actually make it in the NFL.

Also I said that I was torn on Cook. I would watch one game and be all in on the guy and then watch the very next game and go wow please don't draft this kid. That really is it with him of you can watch those games where he throws for 65% completion and for 3 touchdowns with 0 interceptions. He will follow that up completing around 40% of his passes and throw 2 interceptions. To me the issue with Cook is he has a limited ceiling. WE have already seen him in a pro style offense and he has struggled in running it. He doesn't have a big arm. He has major accuracy issues. He struggles to throw when his feet are not set. All of these things are major red flags when it comes to an NFL QB as they need all those things. And while practice can help I'm not sure it can improve him enough to be an actual starter in this league. That is why especially the last few weeks before the draft I switched off of thinking he would be good for the Broncos to really hoping they would not touch the kid.

Also just because Cook might be more advanced that doesn't mean he is actually even the better QB of him and Lynch. Lynch is the more athletic big arm guy so when say a play breaks down he can do a lot more with the ball in his hands in make a bad play into a good one. I guess we will just see on this debate but honestly the more I watched of Cook the more I just shook my head in how limited he is as a QB.

 

[cdumler7]

Every player says this and that, but not every team has the players we both have either..
We have who i think is the BEST D player in the league, with a sheet load of talent around him, and that's the bottom line.. So what he says has some truth to it, and you know it man, but will never say it..

See this is where we disagree...I think the Raiders have some talent on the defensive side of the ball beyond Mack but not as much as you do. See this is where you have trouble in all you see is the good in your players. You never can see the limitations they have. This is why you still won't explain to me why Sean Smith is such a great fit when the system you guys run is complete opposite of what he has played in most of his career. All you see is that he did well with the Chiefs and think he will just be this incredible player for you guys when the Raiders unless they change their entire defensive system will be using him in a way that actually hurts his ability more so than helps. He is a press corner and yet you will have him playing off-man/zone coverage. Again I just want you to explain to me how you can say he is a great fit.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

See Idaho now you are misquoting me. I said Cook has potential and yes looks to be the most pro ready of the bunch because he played in a pro style system so the jump to the NFL would not be as drastic for him as others. The fact that he struggled to even complete 60% passes though against college players with NFL caliber players surrounding him should cause some worry though of his ability to actually make it in the NFL.

Also I said that I was torn on Cook. I would watch one game and be all in on the guy and then watch the very next game and go wow please don't draft this kid. That really is it with him of you can watch those games where he throws for 65% completion and for 3 touchdowns with 0 interceptions. He will follow that up completing around 40% of his passes and throw 2 interceptions. To me the issue with Cook is he has a limited ceiling. WE have already seen him in a pro style offense and he has struggled in running it. He doesn't have a big arm. He has major accuracy issues. He struggles to throw when his feet are not set. All of these things are major red flags when it comes to an NFL QB as they need all those things. And while practice can help I'm not sure it can improve him enough to be an actual starter in this league. That is why especially the last few weeks before the draft I switched off of thinking he would be good for the Broncos to really hoping they would not touch the kid.

Also just because Cook might be more advanced that doesn't mean he is actually even the better QB of him and Lynch. Lynch is the more athletic big arm guy so when say a play breaks down he can do a lot more with the ball in his hands in make a bad play into a good one. I guess we will just see on this debate but honestly the more I watched of Cook the more I just shook my head in how limited he is as a QB.

Im not going to call you out on what you said anymore, cuz it really don't matter does it?? How they play on the field does.. Now like i said, Cook is Pro ready and has the tools to be a great one in this league.. The early reports say he LOOKS outstanding.. How does Lynch look??
Now again cd, our 3rd year player Carr is the man in Oak and Cook is fighting McGloin for the back up job.. Lynch on the other hand only has to beat out Sanchez for the starter gig.. So there's a great chance Lynch sees the playing field first.. Had you guys drafted Cook, he would of been the starter day 1 no doubt..
We will groom Cook and he will either be a cheap back up for us or trade bait.. Lynch they say is your future..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

See this is where we disagree...I think the Raiders have some talent on the defensive side of the ball beyond Mack but not as much as you do. See this is where you have trouble in all you see is the good in your players. You never can see the limitations they have. This is why you still won't explain to me why Sean Smith is such a great fit when the system you guys run is complete opposite of what he has played in most of his career. All you see is that he did well with the Chiefs and think he will just be this incredible player for you guys when the Raiders unless they change their entire defensive system will be using him in a way that actually hurts his ability more so than helps. He is a press corner and yet you will have him playing off-man/zone coverage. Again I just want you to explain to me how you can say he is a great fit.

Smith will play what the RAIDERS want him play and excel at it cd.. Dude is a pro not some rookie.. And we play it all, press, zone, off man 34 43 52.. And you know why?? Cuz we have the personal to play any scheme we want..
Our players can play anywhere we need then to play.. Amerson, Smith and Carrie can play any scheme we want them to play.. Again cd, the Wizard gets players that fit our scheme, you just have to deal with it, and beat us..
Mack said as soon as our D comes together as a unit it will be top notch, is there any reason to doubt him??
There's not when you look at the personal.. And Mack's not the only one singing that tune..
Reggie, JDR and KNJ know what fits and what don't..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

So the RAIDERS and the Broncos are trolling each other, NICE!!
The young hungry RAIDERS are coming for you!!

 

[cdumler7]

Im not going to call you out on what you said anymore, cuz it really don't matter does it?? How they play on the field does.. Now like i said, Cook is Pro ready and has the tools to be a great one in this league.. The early reports say he LOOKS outstanding.. How does Lynch look??
Now again cd, our 3rd year player Carr is the man in Oak and Cook is fighting McGloin for the back up job.. Lynch on the other hand only has to beat out Sanchez for the starter gig.. So there's a great chance Lynch sees the playing field first.. Had you guys drafted Cook, he would of been the starter day 1 no doubt..
We will groom Cook and he will either be a cheap back up for us or trade bait.. Lynch they say is your future..

I have said from the beginning that there are things I love about Cook and things that leave me worried. I have never ventured from that. I have swayed some on if I think he is capable of being a quality NFL starter though. But that happened before the draft not after you guys drafted him. Heck go to the Broncos board and look or even to the general board if you can find them. I said weeks before the draft that I was switching off hoping we would draft Cook as I just saw too much negative and not enough improvement over the course of his career. In fact he regressed his senior year. If he came out his junior year I think he would have been a 1st round pick. More games though and him playing very up and down really hurt his stock. Throw in the not being a captain and some very negative reports of him off the field left enough red flags for teams to go he just doesn't have the ceiling some thought.

 

[cdumler7]

Smith will play what the RAIDERS want him play and excel at it cd.. Dude is a pro not some rookie.. And we play it all, press, zone, off man 34 43 52.. And you know why?? Cuz we have the personal to play any scheme we want..
Our players can play anywhere we need then to play.. Amerson, Smith and Carrie can play any scheme we want them to play.. Again cd, the Wizard gets players that fit our scheme, you just have to deal with it, and beat us..
Mack said as soon as our D comes together as a unit it will be top notch, is there any reason to doubt him??
There's not when you look at the personal.. And Mack's not the only one singing that tune..
Reggie, JDR and KNJ know what fits and what don't..

See Idaho this is what makes me think you are not actually sure what your defense is playing. While yes they play just a bit of press man they rarely do. We are talking like maybe 5% of all plays where for the Chiefs they play it about 75-80% of the time. And just because he is a pro doesn't mean he can play every scheme well. Look at Aso for you guys where he played press-man for the Raiders and was arguably the best Corner in the entire game. He goes to Philly and is asked to play off-man/zone and is considered one of the worst Corners in the game. So can't tell me that years of experience are all a player needs. Sometimes players are just not great fits scheme wise. There are some players in the league that can play any scheme and still be successful. But then there are those that are more a scheme fit. Look at the OL where power scheme teams will get guys in the 320-330 range weight wise that are known more for their ability to push the guy in front of them compared to that of a Zone scheme where an OL player needs quick feet to get to the edge and beat a defender. There are a few OL players that could play both but most fit one or the other. WR there are guys that are great route runners that get open by their quick feet, others who are deep threats with great straight line speed, others are possession receivers. You ask them to do the other and not every one of them can do that. Some RB's are great between the tackles where others are better at getting to the edge. Some are great receivers our the backfield where others are more of a 2-down thumper. DL guys some are only run stoppers that can play a 2-gap system where others have a great first step and can shoot a gap. Some can do both but most can't.

So again at this point you cannot say that Sean Smith is a great fit scheme wise because all of his success is in a completely different scheme. And now you can say that the Raiders have the personnel to do whatever that doesn't mean they will. You have 2 defensive minded coaches in Ken Norton and Del Rio who have never shown in their careers to have Corners playing Press-Man coverage on even a 10% basis. Doesn't mean they can't switch it up but right now they have shown the schemes they run are much more about off-man/zone.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

I have said from the beginning that there are things I love about Cook and things that leave me worried. I have never ventured from that. I have swayed some on if I think he is capable of being a quality NFL starter though. But that happened before the draft not after you guys drafted him. Heck go to the Broncos board and look or even to the general board if you can find them. I said weeks before the draft that I was switching off hoping we would draft Cook as I just saw too much negative and not enough improvement over the course of his career. In fact he regressed his senior year. If he came out his junior year I think he would have been a 1st round pick. More games though and him playing very up and down really hurt his stock. Throw in the not being a captain and some very negative reports of him off the field left enough red flags for teams to go he just doesn't have the ceiling some thought.

cd you backed off just like most cuz of his character issues and not his skill.. In fact that is the reason he fell in the draft and everybody knows that.. Well, alot of that is turning out to be BS, score for us.. Again, Cook is not fighting for our starter job but the back up job.. He has the tools as you know.. Who knows whether he pans out for us or not?? But a talent like his is a STEAL for a cheap 4th round pick!! All to gain nothing to lose..

 

[cdumler7]

cd you backed off just like most cuz of his character issues and not his skill.. In fact that is the reason he fell in the draft and everybody knows that.. Well, alot of that is turning out to be BS, score for us.. Again, Cook is not fighting for our starter job but the back up job.. He has the tools as you know.. Who knows whether he pans out for us or not?? But a talent like his is a STEAL for a cheap 4th round pick!! All to gain nothing to lose..

Not true. Plenty were questioning his talent. Like I said plenty of articles written about his inability to throw when his feet were not set. Plenty written about him having terrible technique that needs a year or two to correct if ever. Plenty written about his inability to throw outside the numbers. Plenty written about his innacurracy when he never completed 60% or better in college. Plenty written about his lack of arm strength. Those are not character issues those are actual football issues.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

See Idaho this is what makes me think you are not actually sure what your defense is playing. While yes they play just a bit of press man they rarely do. We are talking like maybe 5% of all plays where for the Chiefs they play it about 75-80% of the time. And just because he is a pro doesn't mean he can play every scheme well. Look at Aso for you guys where he played press-man for the Raiders and was arguably the best Corner in the entire game. He goes to Philly and is asked to play off-man/zone and is considered one of the worst Corners in the game. So can't tell me that years of experience are all a player needs. Sometimes players are just not great fits scheme wise. There are some players in the league that can play any scheme and still be successful. But then there are those that are more a scheme fit. Look at the OL where power scheme teams will get guys in the 320-330 range weight wise that are known more for their ability to push the guy in front of them compared to that of a Zone scheme where an OL player needs quick feet to get to the edge and beat a defender. There are a few OL players that could play both but most fit one or the other. WR there are guys that are great route runners that get open by their quick feet, others who are deep threats with great straight line speed, others are possession receivers. You ask them to do the other and not every one of them can do that. Some RB's are great between the tackles where others are better at getting to the edge. Some are great receivers our the backfield where others are more of a 2-down thumper. DL guys some are only run stoppers that can play a 2-gap system where others have a great first step and can shoot a gap. Some can do both but most can't.

So again at this point you cannot say that Sean Smith is a great fit scheme wise because all of his success is in a completely different scheme. And now you can say that the Raiders have the personnel to do whatever that doesn't mean they will. You have 2 defensive minded coaches in Ken Norton and Del Rio who have never shown in their careers to have Corners playing Press-Man coverage on even a 10% basis. Doesn't mean they can't switch it up but right now they have shown the schemes they run are much more about off-man/zone.

Nobody knows what we are playing this year, not me, or my fellow RAIDER Fans not the local Media nobody cd..
JDR has said it could be base 34 or 43, Press zone, or whatever.. Nobody knows.. Our players can fit any system we want to run, they were drafted with those ability's cd.. So we really don't know till camp comes around..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Not true. Plenty were questioning his talent. Like I said plenty of articles written about his inability to throw when his feet were not set. Plenty written about him having terrible technique that needs a year or two to correct if ever. Plenty written about his inability to throw outside the numbers. Plenty written about his innacurracy when he never completed 60% or better in college. Plenty written about his lack of arm strength. Those are not character issues those are actual football issues.

Thats why theres coaches cd to help them learn how to play.. For example cd.. Lynch, SUPER RAW!! I have read this dude will not be ready to play for at least 3 years, and that they have to pretty much teach him how to play ball.. To tall and lumbering to really be great so i read out there.. But you don't buy that right cd?? You believe the coaching staff can fix him right cd?? Just like i do.. But with us Cook is not our future, while Lynch is your future..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Thats why theres coaches cd to help them learn how to play.. For example cd.. Lynch, SUPER RAW!! I have read this dude will not be ready to play for at least 3 years, and that they have to pretty much teach him how to play ball.. To tall and lumbering to really be great so i read out there.. But you don't buy that right cd?? You believe the coaching staff can fix him right cd?? Just like i do.. But with us Cook is not our future, while Lynch is your future..

Gotta roll dude..

 

[cdumler7]

Nobody knows what we are playing this year, not me, or my fellow RAIDER Fans not the local Media nobody cd..
JDR has said it could be base 34 or 43, Press zone, or whatever.. Nobody knows.. Our players can fit any system we want to run, they were drafted with those ability's cd.. So we really don't know till camp comes around..

We shall see Idaho. Just because you say they can fit any scheme doesn't make it true. Most players (I would say 85%) fit one certain scheme much more than any other. Doesn't mean they can't play in a different scheme but they will have their struggles. Very few corners for example are great at everything they are asked to do. For the Broncos for example--Aqib Talib voted by many as a top-10 Corner struggles with quick WR's in the slot. The Broncos rarely ask him to go into the slot for this very reason. He doesn't have the first step quickness to keep up with them. Chris Harris considered by many a top-3 Corner in the league is not great at press-man because he is a bit smaller. He is much better in Zone and off-man in my opinion. These guys were a part of the best secondary in the entire NFL yet they still have their deficiencies. I can go through all the top Corners and do the same...Sherman-He is a lot like Talib and will struggle with those quick slot type WR's. Revis-struggles with elite speed guys beating him over the top. So again to say all your guys can play any scheme and find success is just homerism Idaho. It isn't looking at the reality of the situation.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

We shall see Idaho. Just because you say they can fit any scheme doesn't make it true. Most players (I would say 85%) fit one certain scheme much more than any other. Doesn't mean they can't play in a different scheme but they will have their struggles. Very few corners for example are great at everything they are asked to do. For the Broncos for example--Aqib Talib voted by many as a top-10 Corner struggles with quick WR's in the slot. The Broncos rarely ask him to go into the slot for this very reason. He doesn't have the first step quickness to keep up with them. Chris Harris considered by many a top-3 Corner in the league is not great at press-man because he is a bit smaller. He is much better in Zone and off-man in my opinion. These guys were a part of the best secondary in the entire NFL yet they still have their deficiencies. I can go through all the top Corners and do the same...Sherman-He is a lot like Talib and will struggle with those quick slot type WR's. Revis-struggles with elite speed guys beating him over the top. So again to say all your guys can play any scheme and find success is just homerism Idaho. It isn't looking at the reality of the situation.

Gotta roll cd, i do.. But hey?? Every player you get fits right cd?? But not the players we get right cd??
Anyways cd, i will comment in more detail when i get some free time.. I shall return.. peace

 

[cdumler7]

Thats why theres coaches cd to help them learn how to play.. For example cd.. Lynch, SUPER RAW!! I have read this dude will not be ready to play for at least 3 years, and that they have to pretty much teach him how to play ball.. To tall and lumbering to really be great so i read out there.. But you don't buy that right cd?? You believe the coaching staff can fix him right cd?? Just like i do.. But with us Cook is not our future, while Lynch is your future..

Super Raw though makes it sound like the guy has no clue how to play the QB position. Most think he already has great footwork, good throwing motion, good touch (had one of the best completion percentages on deep balls in all of college football), and had the best completion percentage of any college QB while throwing on the run. It is not like he is starting from nothing. Most think what he has to learn is what an NFL system is like and how to play from Center. The playing from Center thing is pretty easy to learn. Heck they have had him doing it every day pretty much since he was drafted and the media that have watched are impressed with how quickly he has already learned it.

AS for the 3 years things if any player takes that long to be ready then they are not NFL caliber. That is a ridiculous statement if anybody actually made it. If he can't be ready by next year then the Broncos made a terrible mistake using a 1st round pick on him.

And coaching can only get you so far. I love our coaching staff to be one of the best in preparing a QB as Kubiak, Knapp, and Elway are all past NFL QB's working with the kid. Kubiak's system is considered very QB friendly and most QB's during his time have seen a huge uptick in their career when they got paired with him compared to anybody else that coached them. So I like the promise but just have to see what happens.

 

[cdumler7]

Gotta roll cd, i do.. But hey?? Every player you get fits right cd?? But not the players we get right cd??
Anyways cd, i will comment in more detail when i get some free time.. I shall return.. peace

When have I said that? This past year I commented quite often about how terrible of a fit Vasquez was for our OL because he is more of a power blocker and doesn't have the first step needed to succeed with the Broncos. He was an All-Pro for us in 2013 when we ran more of a PBS. I said that Manning was not a great fit with Kubiak's scheme. Defensively I questioned how our DL and ILB's would hold up as they were all a bit undersized from what you see in a typical 3-4 system. I still don't think that Sly Williams is the best fit for what we want to do and is part of the reason we didn't sign his 5th-year option year this off season. So no I don't think every player the Broncos have on the team is a perfect fit especially since we just switched coaching staffs last year on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball. It takes time to get all the right players in and even then not all of them work out that way.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Super Raw though makes it sound like the guy has no clue how to play the QB position. Most think he already has great footwork, good throwing motion, good touch (had one of the best completion percentages on deep balls in all of college football), and had the best completion percentage of any college QB while throwing on the run. It is not like he is starting from nothing. Most think what he has to learn is what an NFL system is like and how to play from Center. The playing from Center thing is pretty easy to learn. Heck they have had him doing it every day pretty much since he was drafted and the media that have watched are impressed with how quickly he has already learned it.

AS for the 3 years things if any player takes that long to be ready then they are not NFL caliber. That is a ridiculous statement if anybody actually made it. If he can't be ready by next year then the Broncos made a terrible mistake using a 1st round pick on him.

And coaching can only get you so far. I love our coaching staff to be one of the best in preparing a QB as Kubiak, Knapp, and Elway are all past NFL QB's working with the kid. Kubiak's system is considered very QB friendly and most QB's during his time have seen a huge uptick in their career when they got paired with him compared to anybody else that coached them. So I like the promise but just have to see what happens.

Like i said CD, super raw.. You pretty much need to show him how to play football, now that don't mean he will suck or anything like that.. It is what it is.. Again CD you only believe what you want to believe.. Hmmmmm I will give you better examples when I have free time..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

When have I said that? This past year I commented quite often about how terrible of a fit Vasquez was for our OL because he is more of a power blocker and doesn't have the first step needed to succeed with the Broncos. He was an All-Pro for us in 2013 when we ran more of a PBS. I said that Manning was not a great fit with Kubiak's scheme. Defensively I questioned how our DL and ILB's would hold up as they were all a bit undersized from what you see in a typical 3-4 system. I still don't think that Sly Williams is the best fit for what we want to do and is part of the reason we didn't sign his 5th-year option year this off season. So no I don't think every player the Broncos have on the team is a perfect fit especially since we just switched coaching staffs last year on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball. It takes time to get all the right players in and even then not all of them work out that way.

You never said any of that to me when we debated all last year.. In fact I was the one who told you PM would struggle with Kubaik if I remember right..

 

[cdumler7]

Like i said CD, super raw.. You pretty much need to show him how to play football, now that don't mean he will suck or anything like that.. It is what it is.. Again CD you only believe what you want to believe.. Hmmmmm I will give you better examples when I have free time..

So his 3 years of starting in college and 4 years in high school haven't shown him how to play football? Like I said he has to learn an NFL playbook and how to play under Center. That is 2 parts of many parts of what it takes to play QB. Heck many of the same things were said about Carr before he came into the league and yet hey he started as a rookie.