What do the RAIDERS need

[cdumler7]

Like i said cd i understand that.. We already debated this and in the end, he picked Oak over the Broncos.. And that's with Elway making a pitch for him.. Elway wanted him and he said no.. Why is that so hard to understand??
Im not talking about opportunity, making the team or anything like that..
This is about Elway asking ED to get his son to sign with Denver and Max said no im going to the RAIDERS..

Again with the Elway asking Ed thing though. That is the part that I disagree with. Nowhere that I have read has said that Elway called Ed trying to get him to convince his son to come to Denver. Yes Elway's staff called Max and asked about his interest in trying out for the Broncos. He and his agent decided it wasn't the best situation and he respectfully declined and chose the Raiders. Like I said I'm sure Elway and his staff called over 100 UDFA's to see what their interest was in signing the Broncos. I do know Jeremy Cash had every single team call him and then he chose the Saints of the 32 teams. That is how this works. You call a lot of guys and gauge interest and then move on from the ones going in a different direction and focus on the ones who are interested.

Like I said this comes down to opportunity for these UDFA's. This has nothing to do with what team they are going to go to. I've read plenty on what the agents tell these guys. They look at the position they play and see which teams still have a hole on the roster that gives them a chance to make the team. So I'm betting that Max had maybe 10-15 teams on his list that had a WR need before the draft. He then would start eliminating the teams that invested especially a high round pick in a WR. So by the end he is maybe only deciding between 1-3 teams that give him the best opportunity to actually make the roster. Then after that it could come down to money. Teams are allowed to only pay so much in a signing bonus to players so the ones that they give the biggest signing bonus to usually shows the guys they think have the best chance of making the roster. So it could come down to Raiders offered a lot of up front money compared to other teams. Mostly what I am saying is this had very little to do with Max actually thinking about the Raiders being an up and coming team and wanting to be a part of that. This comes to him maximizing his chance to actually live out his dream of having an NFL career.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Again with the Elway asking Ed thing though. That is the part that I disagree with. Nowhere that I have read has said that Elway called Ed trying to get him to convince his son to come to Denver. Yes Elway's staff called Max and asked about his interest in trying out for the Broncos. He and his agent decided it wasn't the best situation and he respectfully declined and chose the Raiders. Like I said I'm sure Elway and his staff called over 100 UDFA's to see what their interest was in signing the Broncos. I do know Jeremy Cash had every single team call him and then he chose the Saints of the 32 teams. That is how this works. You call a lot of guys and gauge interest and then move on from the ones going in a different direction and focus on the ones who are interested.

Like I said this comes down to opportunity for these UDFA's. This has nothing to do with what team they are going to go to. I've read plenty on what the agents tell these guys. They look at the position they play and see which teams still have a hole on the roster that gives them a chance to make the team. So I'm betting that Max had maybe 10-15 teams on his list that had a WR need before the draft. He then would start eliminating the teams that invested especially a high round pick in a WR. So by the end he is maybe only deciding between 1-3 teams that give him the best opportunity to actually make the roster. Then after that it could come down to money. Teams are allowed to only pay so much in a signing bonus to players so the ones that they give the biggest signing bonus to usually shows the guys they think have the best chance of making the roster. So it could come down to Raiders offered a lot of up front money compared to other teams. Mostly what I am saying is this had very little to do with Max actually thinking about the Raiders being an up and coming team and wanting to be a part of that. This comes to him maximizing his chance to actually live out his dream of having an NFL career.

I get all that cd i do, im not new to the game.. But this has a little more meaning to it.. On most RAIDER sites there's a post about this followed by tweets and comments, and i read most of them.. Denver Fan is NOT happy how this went down is what im saying.. Neither is Elway.. Elway reached out to Max and they said no im going to the RAIDERS, you think Elway ain't pissed about that?? Of course he is.. And we know Denver fan is..
Look, Max McCaffery looks promising, has good size, speed and hands.. And his dad is legend with you guys, so when he turned you guys down it sucked.. Now who knows if he even makes our team, i hope so!!
All im saying is this a little different than most UDFAs..

 

[cdumler7]

I get all that cd i do, im not new to the game.. But this has a little more meaning to it.. On most RAIDER sites there's a post about this followed by tweets and comments, and i read most of them.. Denver Fan is NOT happy how this went down is what im saying.. Neither is Elway.. Elway reached out to Max and they said no im going to the RAIDERS, you think Elway ain't pissed about that?? Of course he is.. And we know Denver fan is..
Look, Max McCaffery looks promising, has good size, speed and hands.. And his dad is legend with you guys, so when he turned you guys down it sucked.. Now who knows if he even makes our team, i hope so!!
All im saying is this a little different than most UDFAs..

What I am saying is it really isn't all that different. Yes there is the connection but I can promise you Elway is not broken up about this. He knew it would be a long shot to get the kid with our WR depth. He knows the McCaffrey family and that they are not idiots. I mean Christian McCaffrey is going to Stanford right now. They all have gotten into major universities that are actually more known for education than football so again they are not idiots. They know what the best opportunity is and that is not in Denver.

And also we are talking an UDFA here. If the Broncos wanted Max that bad they could have just as easily used our 7th round pick on him instead of the punter. I would say Elway is more upset about missing out on Jeremy Cash (thought by many a 3rd round pick) than he is about missing out on Max McCaffrey. I hope the kid does well (other than 2 weeks a year). He comes from a great family that has done a lot for the state of Colorado. If Bronco fans are upset then they need to get over themselves. I joke that he is dead to me but like I said this kid is trying to live out his dream and if he thinks this is his best chance then go for it.

Now I will say I do think most Bronco fans myself included did think he would pick the Broncos just because of his connection to the team. I think that was more wishful thinking than actual reality. Like I said the kid is not an idiot. I think you are just reading way too much into an UDFA player.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

What I am saying is it really isn't all that different. Yes there is the connection but I can promise you Elway is not broken up about this. He knew it would be a long shot to get the kid with our WR depth. He knows the McCaffrey family and that they are not idiots. I mean Christian McCaffrey is going to Stanford right now. They all have gotten into major universities that are actually more known for education than football so again they are not idiots. They know what the best opportunity is and that is not in Denver.

And also we are talking an UDFA here. If the Broncos wanted Max that bad they could have just as easily used our 7th round pick on him instead of the punter. I would say Elway is more upset about missing out on Jeremy Cash (thought by many a 3rd round pick) than he is about missing out on Max McCaffrey. I hope the kid does well (other than 2 weeks a year). He comes from a great family that has done a lot for the state of Colorado. If Bronco fans are upset then they need to get over themselves. I joke that he is dead to me but like I said this kid is trying to live out his dream and if he thinks this is his best chance then go for it.

Now I will say I do think most Bronco fans myself included did think he would pick the Broncos just because of his connection to the team. I think that was more wishful thinking than actual reality. Like I said the kid is not an idiot. I think you are just reading way too much into an UDFA player.

And yet here we have been debating an UDFA all day long.. Not our first round picks Joseph and Lynch or even Washington and Booker.. Nope!! an UDFA cd.. So it has meaning on both sides im afraid..
Again cd, i really don't even know if McCaffery will make our team or not dude.. But one fact will remain?? He pick the RAIDERS over the Broncos the first time he hit the market..

 

[cdumler7]

And yet here we have been debating an UDFA all day long.. Not our first round picks Joseph and Lynch or even Washington and Booker.. Nope!! an UDFA cd.. So it has meaning on both sides im afraid..
Again cd, i really don't even know if McCaffery will make our team or not dude.. But one fact will remain?? He pick the RAIDERS over the Broncos the first time he hit the market..

The reason we are debating it is because you talked about how he turned down the Broncos to pick the Raiders instead and that this meant something. For the most part on your Raiders board I only come on here when you bring up the Broncos in some way or ask me a question. With Max yes it does help that I have known about this kid for quite a while. I've known about his brothers for quite some time as well. His youngest brother who I think just signed with Michigan could actually be the best of them all. I follow them because they have been a big part of Colorado sports for a while. Again like I said I wish him well and I do think he stands a very good chance of making the Raiders roster.

 

[cdumler7]

If you want to talk about those other guys we can go ahead and talk about them.

Your both Karl Joseph was definitely a guy I wanted the Broncos to consider at 31 if we didn't get Paxton Lynch. I didn't think he would go as high as he did because of his injury and the fact that he does struggle in coverage sometimes. He is more of a box safety in the same build as TJ Ward for the Broncos. I love TJ Ward and I love what he brings to the run defense and he has shown at times to be very good in coverage. I do think Joseph will get picked on some if he is asked to take guys on one on one his rookie year. Just something most rookies struggle with and I'm sure they will use him more like the Broncos use Ward anyway where he won't be as isolated in certain situations. Like I said I wanted him for the Broncos and hate that the Raiders keep taking some guys I like for the Broncos. I guess I have just too expensive of taste in players.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

The reason we are debating it is because you talked about how he turned down the Broncos to pick the Raiders instead and that this meant something. For the most part on your Raiders board I only come on here when you bring up the Broncos in some way or ask me a question. With Max yes it does help that I have known about this kid for quite a while. I've known about his brothers for quite some time as well. His youngest brother who I think just signed with Michigan could actually be the best of them all. I follow them because they have been a big part of Colorado sports for a while. Again like I said I wish him well and I do think he stands a very good chance of making the Raiders roster.

Im not trying to be a jerk cd, i never am.. It was just a good debate over a player that you guys know pretty good.. So i was a little surprised when he picked the Dark Side.. As im sure Denver Fan was..

And i agree with the Ed McCaffery bloodline, it's a good one man..
I really hope Max McCaffery makes our team.. 6-2 4.49 40 with good hands.. And as you know, with Streater now in KC (UGH BTW) he has a chance to make our team.. It's up to Max to make that happen though..

 

[cdumler7]

DeAndre Washington...Honestly complimentary backs are some of the hardest to tell how they will transition to the NFL. In college they can get away with a lot more and they are usually the most athletic guy on the field. Come to the pros and that is just not the case. Teams keep looking for the next Darren Sproles but guys like him don't come around everyday. His big thing is he has incredible vision on top of incredible athleticism. Throw in he adds a ton to Special Teams so teams can find a lot more touches for him to impact the game.

He definitely though looks like a great complimentary back that adds a lot to the passing game as a receiver. Not a great blocker though so teams will know when he is in good chance he is going out on a route instead of staying in to block. Also has some fumbling and drops issues so have to see how much trust the team can build up in this kid early on. If those problems come with him to the NFL he could find himself riding the bench early and often. Again very productive player though that adds a unique skill set and weapon to the team. Teams will have to gameplan for the maybe 10-15 plays he is in a game.

 

[cdumler7]

Now the two Bronco guys...

Paxton Lynch. This kid has me giddy. I have been talking about him since October before teams even knew who he was. I was in Vegas (the future home of the Raiders) waiting for a flight and just decided to check out some QB's for this upcoming draft. I remember actually yelling out at one point on a really impressive throw scaring my wife. She started watching with me and even though she is not a football fan was impressed. Now that was before he closed out the year with some very bad games. So this kid has a chance to be special. I listened to his agent today speak who has represented a ton of 1st overall picks in his time and he said he has never had a guy with as much upside as this kid. Now that doesn't mean we will ever see that upside actually play out. Plenty of players have been said to have ridiculous upside then completely fall flat on their face. Have to see how hard this kid is willing to work to become great. He probably needs a year on the bench to really maximize his ability. Have to see if he gets it.

Booker. Well if you go to the Broncos board you will see we have been pounding the table for this kid for quite some time. He at least from what I have seen has probably the best vision of any RB in this draft. He is a very decisive runner and hits the hole very quickly. He doesn't have the most power, the greatest speed, and is definitely not the shiftiest back but in the ZBS what you need more than anything else is vision. So needless to say I am excited by this pick. He is a bit older though and he does have an injury history that should give Bronco fans concern. Beyond that though he is a great receiver out of the backfield and only Elliot graded out as a better pass blocker so should come in and be a true 3-down RB for the Broncos.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

If you want to talk about those other guys we can go ahead and talk about them.

Your both Karl Joseph was definitely a guy I wanted the Broncos to consider at 31 if we didn't get Paxton Lynch. I didn't think he would go as high as he did because of his injury and the fact that he does struggle in coverage sometimes. He is more of a box safety in the same build as TJ Ward for the Broncos. I love TJ Ward and I love what he brings to the run defense and he has shown at times to be very good in coverage. I do think Joseph will get picked on some if he is asked to take guys on one on one his rookie year. Just something most rookies struggle with and I'm sure they will use him more like the Broncos use Ward anyway where he won't be as isolated in certain situations. Like I said I wanted him for the Broncos and hate that the Raiders keep taking some guys I like for the Broncos. I guess I have just too expensive of taste in players.

Word was out on Joseph the Falcons would of took him a few picks after us had we tried to trade down.. And S was our biggest need, and Joseph by alot of people out there was the best one in this draft.. I mean the guy is a unreal punisher and ball hawk.. All Pro skills.. I ain't seen a S like that enter the league in a while.. And this is not a RAIDER fan being a homer either!! He is going to put fear into AFCW WRs.. Scary good man..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

DeAndre Washington...Honestly complimentary backs are some of the hardest to tell how they will transition to the NFL. In college they can get away with a lot more and they are usually the most athletic guy on the field. Come to the pros and that is just not the case. Teams keep looking for the next Darren Sproles but guys like him don't come around everyday. His big thing is he has incredible vision on top of incredible athleticism. Throw in he adds a ton to Special Teams so teams can find a lot more touches for him to impact the game.

He definitely though looks like a great complimentary back that adds a lot to the passing game as a receiver. Not a great blocker though so teams will know when he is in good chance he is going out on a route instead of staying in to block. Also has some fumbling and drops issues so have to see how much trust the team can build up in this kid early on. If those problems come with him to the NFL he could find himself riding the bench early and often. Again very productive player though that adds a unique skill set and weapon to the team. Teams will have to gameplan for the maybe 10-15 plays he is in a game.

I checked everything there is out there on Washington cd.. And this guy runs with power, with moves and speed and can catch and block.. I would not be shocked if he's our starter by week 6 or so.. He's impressive cd..
Great scouting by the RAIDERS imo..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Now the two Bronco guys...

Paxton Lynch. This kid has me giddy. I have been talking about him since October before teams even knew who he was. I was in Vegas (the future home of the Raiders) waiting for a flight and just decided to check out some QB's for this upcoming draft. I remember actually yelling out at one point on a really impressive throw scaring my wife. She started watching with me and even though she is not a football fan was impressed. Now that was before he closed out the year with some very bad games. So this kid has a chance to be special. I listened to his agent today speak who has represented a ton of 1st overall picks in his time and he said he has never had a guy with as much upside as this kid. Now that doesn't mean we will ever see that upside actually play out. Plenty of players have been said to have ridiculous upside then completely fall flat on their face. Have to see how hard this kid is willing to work to become great. He probably needs a year on the bench to really maximize his ability. Have to see if he gets it.

Booker. Well if you go to the Broncos board you will see we have been pounding the table for this kid for quite some time. He at least from what I have seen has probably the best vision of any RB in this draft. He is a very decisive runner and hits the hole very quickly. He doesn't have the most power, the greatest speed, and is definitely not the shiftiest back but in the ZBS what you need more than anything else is vision. So needless to say I am excited by this pick. He is a bit older though and he does have an injury history that should give Bronco fans concern. Beyond that though he is a great receiver out of the backfield and only Elliot graded out as a better pass blocker so should come in and be a true 3-down RB for the Broncos.

Yeah, im not going to crap on those picks.. Lynch looks like he can be pretty good, and fits the system Denver plays.. I have not been scouting QBs so i can't go into detail, but Lynch looks pretty good..

And Booker?? Seen him play plenty of times, and he to looks real good.. You guys got 2 good players man no doubt.. But Washington > Booker im sorry.. And Lynch?? He has the tools so i will wait on that one..

 

[trojanfight]

Im not sure if you caught this one yet. call me nostalgic and I am A trojans fan. But I love the UDFA signing. He has also shown flashes of his father while at USC

Happy to see this one. As a whole over the years I'm talking back to the Pete Carroll championship years the raiders seem to have avoided taking USC players. That's like over 10 years. Maybe just coincidental maybe the front office is all Stanford fans. Justin fargas is last guy I can remember and that goes back quite awhile.

 

[cdumler7]

Word was out on Joseph the Falcons would of took him a few picks after us had we tried to trade down.. And S was our biggest need, and Joseph by alot of people out there was the best one in this draft.. I mean the guy is a unreal punisher and ball hawk.. All Pro skills.. I ain't seen a S like that enter the league in a while.. And this is not a RAIDER fan being a homer either!! He is going to put fear into AFCW WRs.. Scary good man..

Well that is a bit of Homer in there Idaho. Not everybody is saying the same thing you are. I've seen plenty of sites that actually list the pick as one of their worst of the 1st round. All of those say he is a talented player but just went earlier than expected. CBSsports had him as their 46th prospect and 2nd SS behind Neal. Walterfootball had him listed as their 5th ranked safety and a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Drafttek had him listed as their 45th ranked prospect and 3rd safety on their board. So again while I like the player let's temper things just a bit here. He is injury prone, has had struggles in the past with coverage, and is undersized for the position. There is a lot to love about the guy. Again I wanted the Broncos to draft him if Paxton wasn't available and he was still on the board. He does have some issues though.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Happy to see this one. As a whole over the years I'm talking back to the Pete Carroll championship years the raiders seem to have avoided taking USC players. That's like over 10 years. Maybe just coincidental maybe the front office is all Stanford fans. Justin fargas is last guy I can remember and that goes back quite awhile.

Fargas is the last Trojan i remember as A raider too. Marcus Allen was the reason I became A raiders fan. I've been hoping to see Townsend in silver and black since he was recruited

 

[cdumler7]

Yeah, im not going to crap on those picks.. Lynch looks like he can be pretty good, and fits the system Denver plays.. I have not been scouting QBs so i can't go into detail, but Lynch looks pretty good..

And Booker?? Seen him play plenty of times, and he to looks real good.. You guys got 2 good players man no doubt.. But Washington > Booker im sorry.. And Lynch?? He has the tools so i will wait on that one..

Yeah just have to wait and see. I've watched Washington as well knowing we need a RB. I disagree big time with you. I think he is more of a complimentary piece than that of a starter. I wasn't a fan of his when I watched and never listed him as a guy I was hoping the Broncos would draft. Nothing against the guy just saw him more as a specialist than a 3-down type Rb.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Well that is a bit of Homer in there Idaho. Not everybody is saying the same thing you are. I've seen plenty of sites that actually list the pick as one of their worst of the 1st round. All of those say he is a talented player but just went earlier than expected. CBSsports had him as their 46th prospect and 2nd SS behind Neal. Walterfootball had him listed as their 5th ranked safety and a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Drafttek had him listed as their 45th ranked prospect and 3rd safety on their board. So again while I like the player let's temper things just a bit here. He is injury prone, has had struggles in the past with coverage, and is undersized for the position. There is a lot to love about the guy. Again I wanted the Broncos to draft him if Paxton wasn't available and he was still on the board. He does have some issues though.

And yet Riddick and others said he is the best.. 2 on Mayocks list as well.. He's a killer cd, as your team will find out this year.. If they both stay healthy, he will out play Ramsey that is if they play RAMSEY at S..
Best S prospect i seen come into the league in a while.. Best S in the draft period.. And that's what we needed..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Yeah just have to wait and see. I've watched Washington as well knowing we need a RB. I disagree big time with you. I think he is more of a complimentary piece than that of a starter. I wasn't a fan of his when I watched and never listed him as a guy I was hoping the Broncos would draft. Nothing against the guy just saw him more as a specialist than a 3-down type Rb.

Of course you are going to disagree with me when debating our players.. Washington is a 3 down RB dude..
We have a pro bowl RB starting for us, but Washington will steal some of his carries.. And like i said, would not be shocked if he starts at some point in the season.. Reggie loves Washington..

 

[cdumler7]

And yet Riddick and others said he is the best.. 2 on Mayocks list as well.. He's a killer cd, as your team will find out this year.. If they both stay healthy, he will out play Ramsey that is if they play RAMSEY at S..
Best S prospect i seen come into the league in a while.. Best S in the draft period.. And that's what we needed..

Again not saying he wont' be a success. What I am saying is he was drafted earlier than what I thought he would be. And like I said I watched a ton of his games. I love the kid but he does have some weaknesses to his game.

And no he is not the best Safety prospect I have seen come into this league in a while. Jalen Ramsey is one of the few prospects I have watched that I had to stop because it was making me so sad that we stood no chance to get him. Not sure I have been that blown away by a prospect before. The kid is special. I would be absolutely shocked if he is not a top-5 safety after his rookie year. Eric Berry was not quite to that level but he definitely looked deserving of a top-5 pick with his play. Earl Thomas was another that I just loved coming out of Texas. I hated so much that the Seahawks used the 1st round pick we traded them for the one guy I really wanted in that draft. He was a super star in college and did the same in the pros. Those are just 3 recent names that I have watched a ton of college tape that I thought would be incredible in the pros.

 

[cdumler7]

Of course you are going to disagree with me when debating our players.. Washington is a 3 down RB dude..
We have a pro bowl RB starting for us, but Washington will steal some of his carries.. And like i said, would not be shocked if he starts at some point in the season.. Reggie loves Washington..

Like I've said before 2 people can look at the same thing and arrive at 2 completely different thoughts. When I watched Washington I saw a guy who struggled to hit the holes when they shrunk down. He doesn't have great vision. His superior athleticism worked in college in a spread system that allowed for huge holes to open up. Those shrink in the pros which is why I said those smaller speed style backs are very hard to judge on how they will do in the NFL because speed alone cannot win in the NFL. Vision becomes the most important trait a RB needs going into the Pros and that is very difficult to judge because most of the time they are running through giant holes in college.