What do the RAIDERS need

[idahoraiderfan33]

I'm not really trying to compare the two. I'm showing that there are some guys still on the market that can play at a reasonable rate. The Broncos don't need a top-10 QB to come in to win games. They need a guy that can come in and not turn the ball over and pick up a few first downs here and there. They are planning on running the heck out of the football this year. So a guy like Hoyer could do fine as a 1-year rental if need be for cheap. This is also why I think a rookie could come in and do fine. Throw in Kubiak's system is one of the most QB friendly systems in the NFL right now. He limits the number of reads a QB has to make on a given play. The Zone Stretch Bootleg plays eliminate a whole half of the field and give a QB just 3 options usually of a short, medium, and long throw on the same side of the field. So no real scanning to be able to make a play.

Also there are some rookies in this draft that I really like beyond just the first 2 guys. Lynch, Cook, and Prescott are 3 that the Broncos have been linked to and all 3 are athletic QB's that have shown to have great arms in college.

For the record cd, im not saying Hoyer is some trash man or nothing like that.. He would be ok till a rookie is ready.. And also true, a rookie could come and and start, but be ready for growing pains!!

cd, im thinking the RAIDERS might want to trade down a few spots, and if some teams wants either Lynch or Cook they just might move up to our spot and take the one they want.. Lynch would be my guess as the one they would trade up for..
Im starting to think, if you guys strike out on Kap, Elway goes all in and trades up pretty high in the draft to get the guy he wants..

 

[cdumler7]

For the record cd, im not saying Hoyer is some trash man or nothing like that.. He would be ok till a rookie is ready.. And also true, a rookie could come and and start, but be ready for growing pains!!

cd, im thinking the RAIDERS might want to trade down a few spots, and if some teams wants either Lynch or Cook they just might move up to our spot and take the one they want.. Lynch would be my guess as the one they would trade up for..
Im starting to think, if you guys strike out on Kap, Elway goes all in and trades up pretty high in the draft to get the guy he wants..

I actually agree with you. I'm sure he has gone crazy scouting this QB class. They have in their head who they want and Elway is one of the more aggressive GM's in the NFL in taking a risk to get what he wants. I could see the Broncos possibly trading up into the top-10 say either Wentz or Goff get past the first few picks.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

I actually agree with you. I'm sure he has gone crazy scouting this QB class. They have in their head who they want and Elway is one of the more aggressive GM's in the NFL in taking a risk to get what he wants. I could see the Broncos possibly trading up into the top-10 say either Wentz or Goff get past the first few picks.

Trade to number 1 is what i would do.. I would trade them Von Miller for that top pick.. Then choose between two franchise QBs!! Wentz or Goff!!

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Trade to number 1 is what i would do.. I would trade them Von Miller for that top pick.. Then choose between two franchise QBs!! Wentz or Goff!!

That'd be awfully ballsy. Ultimate swing and miss type move. It's all academic given the tag is exclusive to my understanding, but it'd be a fun scenario to think about.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

That'd be awfully ballsy. Ultimate swing and miss type move. It's all academic given the tag is exclusive to my understanding, but it'd be a fun scenario to think about.

That's how big ballers roll Moose.. And im not sure how that whole tag is working for them, but i would do it man.. Von Miller for the number 1 pick.. Wentz or Goff..

 

[cdumler7]

Trade to number 1 is what i would do.. I would trade them Von Miller for that top pick.. Then choose between two franchise QBs!! Wentz or Goff!!

I'm highly doubting they would do that. First off they would most likely have to have Von Miller signed to a long-term deal by then. Most likely they will struggle to have that done before the draft because of the magnitude of the deal. Throw in then the other team knowing instead of having a rookie on a very reasonable contract now they are taking on one of the largest contracts in the NFL.

I also highly doubt the Broncos want to do that of trading a top-7 player in the entire league for a completely unknown player. On top of that right now while I like some of these top QB's not like they have proven much. Wentz played against very inferior competition. Goff didn't even have a winning record in college. So not that can't miss type guys. If this was the Andrew Luck draft then yes I wouldn't mind that kind of gamble but that is just not the case.

Now what I could see though is the Broncos being willing to trade into the top-10 say one of those guys begin to slip. All it would cost is the 1st and 2nd round pick this year and a 1st next next with a late round pick thrown in. My guess is they could actually get away with say trading their 1st and 2nd this year, then trade one of their lower priced players like Shaq Barrett who the Browns considered was worth a 1st round pick himself. That would get them probably into the 6-10 range of the draft.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

I'm highly doubting they would do that. First off they would most likely have to have Von Miller signed to a long-term deal by then. Most likely they will struggle to have that done before the draft because of the magnitude of the deal. Throw in then the other team knowing instead of having a rookie on a very reasonable contract now they are taking on one of the largest contracts in the NFL.

I also highly doubt the Broncos want to do that of trading a top-7 player in the entire league for a completely unknown player. On top of that right now while I like some of these top QB's not like they have proven much. Wentz played against very inferior competition. Goff didn't even have a winning record in college. So not that can't miss type guys. If this was the Andrew Luck draft then yes I wouldn't mind that kind of gamble but that is just not the case.

Now what I could see though is the Broncos being willing to trade into the top-10 say one of those guys begin to slip. All it would cost is the 1st and 2nd round pick this year and a 1st next next with a late round pick thrown in. My guess is they could actually get away with say trading their 1st and 2nd this year, then trade one of their lower priced players like Shaq Barrett who the Browns considered was worth a 1st round pick himself. That would get them probably into the 6-10 range of the draft.

Im just throwing that out there cd, besides ya never what will happen.. Anyways, its going to be spendy moving up to the top 5 to get one of those QBs.. When it's all said and done both will go in the top 5.. They both look good real good.. Some say they could be better than MM and Winston.. That remains to be seen though..
Regardless you pay if you want one of them..

 

[cdumler7]

Im just throwing that out there cd, besides ya never what will happen.. Anyways, its going to be spendy moving up to the top 5 to get one of those QBs.. When it's all said and done both will go in the top 5.. They both look good real good.. Some say they could be better than MM and Winston.. That remains to be seen though..
Regardless you pay if you want one of them..

It really isn't as spendy as you would think. A 1st and 2nd round pick this year and a 1st next year can get you from 31st pick to about 7th. At least according to the draft value chart that a lot of teams somewhat go by. For a QB that you like that isn't too bad. As for these QB's I'm not sure they will be as sold on them as they were last year. Otherwise they would be going 1st and 2nd overall and teams would be going crazy trying to trade up. Have to remember the guys this year at the top are a Division 2 QB and a guy that won what 5 games over the last 2 years? Not exactly the greatest things you like to see. It is why rumors are starting to fly around that one of those 2 guys could see a huge drop like Rodgers, Quinn, and others have seen in the past.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

It really isn't as spendy as you would think. A 1st and 2nd round pick this year and a 1st next year can get you from 31st pick to about 7th. At least according to the draft value chart that a lot of teams somewhat go by. For a QB that you like that isn't too bad. As for these QB's I'm not sure they will be as sold on them as they were last year. Otherwise they would be going 1st and 2nd overall and teams would be going crazy trying to trade up. Have to remember the guys this year at the top are a Division 2 QB and a guy that won what 5 games over the last 2 years? Not exactly the greatest things you like to see. It is why rumors are starting to fly around that one of those 2 guys could see a huge drop like Rodgers, Quinn, and others have seen in the past.

A potential franchise QB is never to spendy if you believe he is the right guy.. Me i like Goff better, but either would be good imo.. And rumors always start flying around this time of the year, heck the closer to draft time the bigger the rumors so it seems.. I like i said?? You want one of them, you have to pay for him.. You guys can afford to make that trade, cuz you have a good team that's lacking a QB!!

 

[cdumler7]

A potential franchise QB is never to spendy if you believe he is the right guy.. Me i like Goff better, but either would be good imo.. And rumors always start flying around this time of the year, heck the closer to draft time the bigger the rumors so it seems.. I like i said?? You want one of them, you have to pay for him.. You guys can afford to make that trade, cuz you have a good team that's lacking a QB!!

The other part of this is the Broncos have a ton of Comp Picks for this year and next year coming in so trading away some draft picks doesn't mean we are left with nothing. In fact right now the Broncos are expected to get 2 of the top 3 comp picks next year and they are tradable next year. So yeah we can afford to I just don't know how sold they are going to be on the top-2 guys compared to the others in this draft. I think they can sit and wait and Lynch could fall into the 20's and I am betting Cook will make it to our pick. Cook is actually my personal favorite in this draft. I know his leadership abilities have been questioned but the guy has been a huge winner at a program that was struggling before he showed up. He has played in a pro style system and put up great numbers in a very challenging conference over the last few years. So not like he has had a ton of easy games to put up his numbers.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

The other part of this is the Broncos have a ton of Comp Picks for this year and next year coming in so trading away some draft picks doesn't mean we are left with nothing. In fact right now the Broncos are expected to get 2 of the top 3 comp picks next year and they are tradable next year. So yeah we can afford to I just don't know how sold they are going to be on the top-2 guys compared to the others in this draft. I think they can sit and wait and Lynch could fall into the 20's and I am betting Cook will make it to our pick. Cook is actually my personal favorite in this draft. I know his leadership abilities have been questioned but the guy has been a huge winner at a program that was struggling before he showed up. He has played in a pro style system and put up great numbers in a very challenging conference over the last few years. So not like he has had a ton of easy games to put up his numbers.

That's alot of picks you guys are collecting dang!! Something shady going on there or what?! Hmmmm.. J/K
cd, Cook is the MSU QB correct?? If so im not really sold on him.. Now i could be totally wrong and the dude will be good, but im not to sure about him.. If i had ALL the picks you guys had im shooting for the moon and getting either Goff or Wentz.. Why settle for second best.. But then again, our very own Carr went in the second and i would take him over any QB in his draft class.. So again, i could be wrong about Cook, just not really sold on him as of now..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Shout out to the babe!! I want one of those First Take pens!!

 

[cdumler7]

That's alot of picks you guys are collecting dang!! Something shady going on there or what?! Hmmmm.. J/K
cd, Cook is the MSU QB correct?? If so im not really sold on him.. Now i could be totally wrong and the dude will be good, but im not to sure about him.. If i had ALL the picks you guys had im shooting for the moon and getting either Goff or Wentz.. Why settle for second best.. But then again, our very own Carr went in the second and i would take him over any QB in his draft class.. So again, i could be wrong about Cook, just not really sold on him as of now..

Well this is the nice thing about drafting so well for the last few years. We have had such incredible depth that we have been able to let players go and sign huge contracts elsewhere and they seem to bust wherever they go but hey it still nets us a very nice Comp Pick anyway. So nothing shady just been that good of a team that we can afford to let talent walk out the door with the team still staying very competitive.

You are correct he is the guy from MSU. I guess the things that have sold him to me is he is coming from a pro system. Probably of all the QB's in this draft he is the most pro ready guy. He also made calls from the LOS, went through reads, and all the things most of these guys have to learn on the fly when they come into the NFL. He is also a winner. He has found ways to win in big games by making some big time throws. Needs some work on consistency like most of these guys and his footwork needs some major work but I think he is the one guy that can come in year one and find success with our team. Now his leadership and attitude issues I'm just not sure what is real and what isn't. I'll leave that to Elway to figure out but at least at this moment he is the guy I would go after.

As for trading up I guess it depends how high we have to go and how much to give up. My guess is Wentz goes #2 overall to Cleveland so that would mean trading clear up to pick #1. To me the cost would be too great especially for such an unknown. It would end up hurting our depth with having to give up so many draft picks. I just don't see that happening. Maybe to the top-10 to get the #2 guy but I'm not sure I like Wentz or Goff so much more than that of Lynch and Cook that I would go crazy trying to trade up.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Well this is the nice thing about drafting so well for the last few years. We have had such incredible depth that we have been able to let players go and sign huge contracts elsewhere and they seem to bust wherever they go but hey it still nets us a very nice Comp Pick anyway. So nothing shady just been that good of a team that we can afford to let talent walk out the door with the team still staying very competitive.

You are correct he is the guy from MSU. I guess the things that have sold him to me is he is coming from a pro system. Probably of all the QB's in this draft he is the most pro ready guy. He also made calls from the LOS, went through reads, and all the things most of these guys have to learn on the fly when they come into the NFL. He is also a winner. He has found ways to win in big games by making some big time throws. Needs some work on consistency like most of these guys and his footwork needs some major work but I think he is the one guy that can come in year one and find success with our team. Now his leadership and attitude issues I'm just not sure what is real and what isn't. I'll leave that to Elway to figure out but at least at this moment he is the guy I would go after.

As for trading up I guess it depends how high we have to go and how much to give up. My guess is Wentz goes #2 overall to Cleveland so that would mean trading clear up to pick #1. To me the cost would be too great especially for such an unknown. It would end up hurting our depth with having to give up so many draft picks. I just don't see that happening. Maybe to the top-10 to get the #2 guy but I'm not sure I like Wentz or Goff so much more than that of Lynch and Cook that I would go crazy trying to trade up.

So what your saying?? Cook is better than Wentz and Goff?? That's plain madness cd.. I have seen some of Cooks games and i never seen anything that really pops out from his game.. Again, that don't mean he sucks or anything like that, just nothing made me say WOW about his game.. Now if the guy is Pro Ready, and has a steady game, then by all means draft the guy.. Can the guy WIN the games is what matters..

 

[cdumler7]

So what your saying?? Cook is better than Wentz and Goff?? That's plain madness cd.. I have seen some of Cooks games and i never seen anything that really pops out from his game.. Again, that don't mean he sucks or anything like that, just nothing made me say WOW about his game.. Now if the guy is Pro Ready, and has a steady game, then by all means draft the guy.. Can the guy WIN the games is what matters..

I didn't say that. I said I don't think there is a lot that separates the top guys from the next tier of QB's. Throw in this is the draft nobody knows how these players will develop. I mean RG3 went 2nd overall and everybody thought he was going to be an all-star. Now he struggled to even find a job. You guys drafted JaMarcus Russell #1 overall and yet he barely did anything in the NFL and is considered one of the biggest draft busts in NFL history. So why then would it be that crazy to think that a guy who will get drafted later can't be better? To me that is plain madness. If it was so easy to pick out the top guys then the Raiders should be the top team in the league with how many top-5 picks they have had over the past 15 years.

Now the other part of this at least for me is what it would take to trade up for those players. Let's say we get into the top-10 and trade our 1st and 2nd from this year and at least our 1st next year plus probably more. Those are depth players possibly good players that we can have on the cheap. So if I can have say Cook with still having my 2nd this year and 1st next year plus the other picks I like my chances of building a great team around him so he doesn't have to be an all-star but if he develops into one then bonus for us.

Also just think to 2 drafts ago...You guys drafted Carr. Would you say the same thing about you guys taking Carr and thinking that he could be better than Bortles or Bridgewater and that being plain madness? Why is it that you guys are the only one that can find a QB after the 1st 2 are taken that can actually outperform the top guys?

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

I didn't say that. I said I don't think there is a lot that separates the top guys from the next tier of QB's. Throw in this is the draft nobody knows how these players will develop. I mean RG3 went 2nd overall and everybody thought he was going to be an all-star. Now he struggled to even find a job. You guys drafted JaMarcus Russell #1 overall and yet he barely did anything in the NFL and is considered one of the biggest draft busts in NFL history. So why then would it be that crazy to think that a guy who will get drafted later can't be better? To me that is plain madness. If it was so easy to pick out the top guys then the Raiders should be the top team in the league with how many top-5 picks they have had over the past 15 years.

Now the other part of this at least for me is what it would take to trade up for those players. Let's say we get into the top-10 and trade our 1st and 2nd from this year and at least our 1st next year plus probably more. Those are depth players possibly good players that we can have on the cheap. So if I can have say Cook with still having my 2nd this year and 1st next year plus the other picks I like my chances of building a great team around him so he doesn't have to be an all-star but if he develops into one then bonus for us.

Also just think to 2 drafts ago...You guys drafted Carr. Would you say the same thing about you guys taking Carr and thinking that he could be better than Bortles or Bridgewater and that being plain madness? Why is it that you guys are the only one that can find a QB after the 1st 2 are taken that can actually outperform the top guys?

We have different management cd.. Our picks are much better now than then.. Im not going to talk down AL Davis, but he was old and little past his prime.. The Old man gambled it all and i went along for the ride..

The thing with Carr cd is and was his arm talent at Fresno St!! The ball would jump out of his hand, great arm talent.. But he fell to us in the second for the simple reasons as being the younger brother of the number 1 overall draft pick that busted, along with playing at tiny Fresno St in a wide open spread.. Cook does not have the type of arm talent as Carr, that's why Carr is what he is now.. Arm Talent.. Cook is good but does not have that kind of arm.. On the other hand Goff and Wentz do have good arm talent, along with Cardale Jones..

 

[cdumler7]

We have different management cd.. Our picks are much better now than then.. Im not going to talk down AL Davis, but he was old and little past his prime.. The Old man gambled it all and i went along for the ride..

The thing with Carr cd is and was his arm talent at Fresno St!! The ball would jump out of his hand, great arm talent.. But he fell to us in the second for the simple reasons as being the younger brother of the number 1 overall draft pick that busted, along with playing at tiny Fresno St in a wide open spread.. Cook does not have the type of arm talent as Carr, that's why Carr is what he is now.. Arm Talent.. Cook is good but does not have that kind of arm.. On the other hand Goff and Wentz do have good arm talent, along with Cardale Jones..

I understand management is better. What I am saying is just because a player is drafted earlier doesn't mean they are actually going to be a better player. I mean Tom Brady is a great example of a guy who was like the 10th QB taken in his draft yet here he is a HOF QB. Chris Harris one of the top-5 Corners in the game wasn't even drafted. Ryan Leaf was supposed to possibly be better than Peyton Manning when he went #2 overall yet became one of the biggest busts in NFL history.

So again for me to say a guy could end up being a better prospect in the pros shouldn't be such a crazy thought. Also for Carr he had plenty of question marks when he was drafted. 1) Played for Fresno State so his level of competition helped to inflate his stats. Played mostly out of shot gun and the pistol so was thought it might take him some time to adjust to the NFL. He also came from a spread offense where he wasn't asked to make a lot of reads and even with playing a lower level of competition he did struggle to throw the deep ball in college just like he has some struggles with it in the pros. Realize when I say that Idaho I would say the same thing about Tom Brady. He doesn't have a very good deep ball. He has learned to play within his abilities. Every QB has a weakness and as a fan it shouldn't be such a hard thing to admit that a player of ours has a weakness. None of these guys are completely perfect.

As for Cook before he decided to go back to college he was a top-20 pick last year. An injury this year and some questions about his leadership have dropped him just a hair this year compared to last. Arm talent wise not many question him on that area. They do think he makes some bad decisions of trusting his arm too much and throwing into triple coverage but arm talent wise like I said nobody questions his ability to make all the NFL throws.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

I understand management is better. What I am saying is just because a player is drafted earlier doesn't mean they are actually going to be a better player. I mean Tom Brady is a great example of a guy who was like the 10th QB taken in his draft yet here he is a HOF QB. Chris Harris one of the top-5 Corners in the game wasn't even drafted. Ryan Leaf was supposed to possibly be better than Peyton Manning when he went #2 overall yet became one of the biggest busts in NFL history.

So again for me to say a guy could end up being a better prospect in the pros shouldn't be such a crazy thought. Also for Carr he had plenty of question marks when he was drafted. 1) Played for Fresno State so his level of competition helped to inflate his stats. Played mostly out of shot gun and the pistol so was thought it might take him some time to adjust to the NFL. He also came from a spread offense where he wasn't asked to make a lot of reads and even with playing a lower level of competition he did struggle to throw the deep ball in college just like he has some struggles with it in the pros. Realize when I say that Idaho I would say the same thing about Tom Brady. He doesn't have a very good deep ball. He has learned to play within his abilities. Every QB has a weakness and as a fan it shouldn't be such a hard thing to admit that a player of ours has a weakness. None of these guys are completely perfect.

As for Cook before he decided to go back to college he was a top-20 pick last year. An injury this year and some questions about his leadership have dropped him just a hair this year compared to last. Arm talent wise not many question him on that area. They do think he makes some bad decisions of trusting his arm too much and throwing into triple coverage but arm talent wise like I said nobody questions his ability to make all the NFL throws.

Dude i scored a 409 with trip Carbs!! DANG!! Anyways cd, thats what i was saying about Carr, he fell for those reason.. Carr's deep ball is beastly man look at the tape.. In fact he's great at the deep ball.. Only getting better.. Im not worried about Carr one bit..

And i get that no QBs are perfect, but what you look for is arm talent and is he accurate, does he have a quick release, the rest can be coached up.. Does your boy Cook fit that is the thing?? If not then you need to trade up and get the guy that does..

 

[DJ Fieri]

Trade Von Miller?

Fuck no.

 

[cdumler7]

Dude i scored a 409 with trip Carbs!! DANG!! Anyways cd, thats what i was saying about Carr, he fell for those reason.. Carr's deep ball is beastly man look at the tape.. In fact he's great at the deep ball.. Only getting better.. Im not worried about Carr one bit..

And i get that no QBs are perfect, but what you look for is arm talent and is he accurate, does he have a quick release, the rest can be coached up.. Does your boy Cook fit that is the thing?? If not then you need to trade up and get the guy that does..

I've watched Carr and I would say his deep ball is inconsistent at best. It is the one weakness to his game. Doesn't mean he can't improve on it but it is the one thing both in college and the pros that all the analyst keep pointing towards as the one area he really needs to improve on to go to the next level.

As for Cook he is accurate and has plenty of arm talent. He isn't as strong as Carr by any means but he also has a leg up on a lot of guys coming from a pro system and actually being able to call audibles at the LOS.

Again like I said with Cook it has nothing to do with his arm of why he isn't a top-10 pick. It is more a perceived attitude issue. He rubs people the wrong way. His teammates and coaches have all spoken very highly of him and one of his former teammates on the Broncos has actually publicly come out in favor of him. I'm sure the Broncos are talking to him quite a bit to get the inside scoop beyond just the coaches and teammates that he has right now. If his attitude and leadership check then no reason he can't be the top QB in this draft class.