What do the RAIDERS need

[cdumler7]

My bad.. Starters on the OL hurt, Coop banged up to the point that he shouldn't have even played.. I mean it is what it is.. And even still, the dude was beastly!! And he has a good DEEP ball, and showed it plenty of times..
2nd year Pro Bowl QB!! 2nd only to Dan the Man in TDs in his first two years, or some sheet like that..
Carr made a HUGE jump from his rookie year to his 2nd year.. No reason to think that he will make the final jump now entering his 3rd year..

Also not sure using the Pro Bowl this past year is that great of an accomplishment. I mean over 1/3rd of all starting QB's made the Pro Bowl this past year.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Also not sure using the Pro Bowl this past year is that great of an accomplishment. I mean over 1/3rd of all starting QB's made the Pro Bowl this past year.

HaHa cd, i was waiting for you to say that.. So now PFF has no Cred and the Pro bowl has no Cred.. Of course it can't have Cred cuz that would give me ammo.. Classic cd for sure..
But Hey?? Carr had what?? 3980 Y 32 TDs and something like 15 picks or so?? And was QB of one of the exciting young teams on the rise in the league.. Was clutch in games, and great leader of his team.. I mean the guy is 2nd to Dan thee Man in his first two years in the league.. I mean what was the league thinking putting a young phenom like him in the Pro Bowl..

 

[cdumler7]

HaHa cd, i was waiting for you to say that.. So now PFF has no Cred and the Pro bowl has no Cred.. Of course it can't have Cred cuz that would give me ammo.. Classic cd for sure..
But Hey?? Carr had what?? 3980 Y 32 TDs and something like 15 picks or so?? And was QB of one of the exciting young teams on the rise in the league.. Was clutch in games, and great leader of his team.. I mean the guy is 2nd to Dan thee Man in his first two years in the league.. I mean what was the league thinking putting a young phenom like him in the Pro Bowl..

I'm not saying he isn't a decent player. And Idaho you have got to stop misusing what I say. You are using exaggeration to try and make a point and I'm sorry but not really interested in debating if you are going to misuse what I say to try and make your point. I have said over and over that while PFF is not my favorite stat site anymore they still have some value. I just don't go to them as my first place when it comes to stats as I do think it is flawed system. Again that doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Same with the Pro Bowl. Flawed system. For the first few weeks voting was open Peyton Manning was like 3rd on the list this past year for QB's among fan voting even though he was having statistically the worst season of any QB. That is why I say it is flawed and when you throw in the record number of players that dropped out this year especially at the QB position I am just a bit cautious of using that as this incredible stat to show the talents of a certain player.

As for the stat that he is 2nd that is in touchdown passes. Actual touchdowns total he is not quite there. Carr has 53 touchdowns total at this point which is down right impressive. Luck for example had 55 total touchdowns. Wilson had 57. Dalton had 52. Newton had 62. The common theme though is that a lot of the young guys are putting up ridiculous numbers as the rules do favor the QB's of today compared to trying to compare them to year's past. It is why Dan Marino's numbers are just ridiculous that he could do that in an era where QB's were at a disadvantage for the most part.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

HaHa cd, i was waiting for you to say that.. So now PFF has no Cred and the Pro bowl has no Cred.. Of course it can't have Cred cuz that would give me ammo.. Classic cd for sure..
But Hey?? Carr had what?? 3980 Y 32 TDs and something like 15 picks or so?? And was QB of one of the exciting young teams on the rise in the league.. Was clutch in games, and great leader of his team.. I mean the guy is 2nd to Dan thee Man in his first two years in the league.. I mean what was the league thinking putting a young phenom like him in the Pro Bowl..

None of this matters man.. Prove it on the field and JUST WIN!! I just find the double standards funny is all..

 

[cdumler7]

None of this matters man.. Prove it on the field and JUST WIN!! I just find the double standards funny is all..

What double standard? Again I have said PFF graded the Broncos defense as the best they have ever seen. If I wanted to go full homer I could just point to that any time and say "See look how awesome we are." If any team has the right to brag about what PFF has to say it would be the Broncos right now but not using that.

As for the Pro Bowl just a few years ago the Chiefs had the most Pro Bowl players in the Pro Bowl but guess what they had the 1st overall pick in the draft. They were the worst team in the league and fans voted in their players that were just down right terrible. So tell me how much am I supposed to really consider Pro Bowl bids as this incredible stat that shows just how awesome a player is?

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

I'm not saying he isn't a decent player. And Idaho you have got to stop misusing what I say. You are using exaggeration to try and make a point and I'm sorry but not really interested in debating if you are going to misuse what I say to try and make your point. I have said over and over that while PFF is not my favorite stat site anymore they still have some value. I just don't go to them as my first place when it comes to stats as I do think it is flawed system. Again that doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Same with the Pro Bowl. Flawed system. For the first few weeks voting was open Peyton Manning was like 3rd on the list this past year for QB's among fan voting even though he was having statistically the worst season of any QB. That is why I say it is flawed and when you throw in the record number of players that dropped out this year especially at the QB position I am just a bit cautious of using that as this incredible stat to show the talents of a certain player.

As for the stat that he is 2nd that is in touchdown passes. Actual touchdowns total he is not quite there. Carr has 53 touchdowns total at this point which is down right impressive. Luck for example had 55 total touchdowns. Wilson had 57. Dalton had 52. Newton had 62. The common theme though is that a lot of the young guys are putting up ridiculous numbers as the rules do favor the QB's of today compared to trying to compare them to year's past. It is why Dan Marino's numbers are just ridiculous that he could do that in an era where QB's were at a disadvantage for the most part.

cd you used all that against me last year over and over, and not once did i say the Pro Bowl is watered down, or take PFF with a grain of salt or nothing like that.. I rolled with it and debated that even with all that, you still would not sweep us.. Again cd, it really don't matter to me what those sites have to say, i just find it funny is all..
And as for Carr?? There's not a QB in the league i would take over him.. No way..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

What double standard? Again I have said PFF graded the Broncos defense as the best they have ever seen. If I wanted to go full homer I could just point to that any time and say "See look how awesome we are." If any team has the right to brag about what PFF has to say it would be the Broncos right now but not using that.

As for the Pro Bowl just a few years ago the Chiefs had the most Pro Bowl players in the Pro Bowl but guess what they had the 1st overall pick in the draft. They were the worst team in the league and fans voted in their players that were just down right terrible. So tell me how much am I supposed to really consider Pro Bowl bids as this incredible stat that shows just how awesome a player is?

You did say all that cd, all last year man.. And guess what?? They were right, you WON the SB!! But you did not sweep us, and that was my main argument.. And as far as Pro Bowl players go?? Who care's man as long as they WIN.. Now don't get me wrong, PFF Pro Bowl players give fans offseason ammo and hope that the teams they cheer for will be good.. For example you, all last year.. And in the end?? A SB!!
Well, i will use them here and there but not much dude.. Im a prove it on the filed and just Win baby!!

 

[cdumler7]

cd you used all that against me last year over and over, and not once did i say the Pro Bowl is watered down, or take PFF with a grain of salt or nothing like that.. I rolled with it and debated that even with all that, you still would not sweep us.. Again cd, it really don't matter to me what those sites have to say, i just find it funny is all..
And as for Carr?? There's not a QB in the league i would take over him.. No way..

So is a person not allowed to grow and change ever in their life? What they start with is what they have to stick with? I've fully admitted I have used PFF plenty in the past to make a point. And I'm sure I will still use it some as like I have said over and over but you still seem to keep missing in me saying it still has some value just is a flawed system.

As for Carr I have not said that he doesn't have value as a QB. I have said I don't think he is as good as you think he is. Really a lot of actual stats himself as a QB did not change from year 1 to year 2. What changed was the weapons around him taking that 5 yard pass for 20 yards instead of just getting tackled right away. I think he is a guy that falls into that 10-15 range as a QB which there is nothing wrong with that. A lot of great QB's fall into that spot like Joe Flacco and Eli Manning that have won Super Bowls. Those are the players that need a little more around them but can still put up good to great stats. I just don't see Carr as an elite prospect. I have been wrong plenty so don't worry you could easily be proven right that you shouldn't want to take any QB other than him. Right now I have plenty for this upcoming season though that I would rather take. I would take Carr on the Broncos right now though over anything we will most likely trott onto the field.

 

[cdumler7]

You did say all that cd, all last year man.. And guess what?? They were right, you WON the SB!! But you did not sweep us, and that was my main argument.. And as far as Pro Bowl players go?? Who care's man as long as they WIN.. Now don't get me wrong, PFF Pro Bowl players give fans offseason ammo and hope that the teams they cheer for will be good.. For example you, all last year.. And in the end?? A SB!!
Well, i will use them here and there but not much dude.. Im a prove it on the filed and just Win baby!!

So you are basing your thoughts on the Raiders off of one game where you guys beat us when we had our back up QB in and our offense could only muster 12 points? I guess for me I look at the Raiders last year as a team that beat the teams they were expected to (other than the Broncos) and lost to a lot of average to good teams. I mean 5 of the 7 wins came against teams picking in the top-6 of the upcoming draft. You beat the Jets and us as the only I would call quality wins on the season. I need to see the Raiders win a few more against quality opponents before I start going crazy about what they can do on the field. Not beat a team with their back up QB in when the team is showing a very tough period of struggling. I mean that was the stretch of the season we went 3-4 over a 7 game stretch. We were not a very good team at that time.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

So is a person not allowed to grow and change ever in their life? What they start with is what they have to stick with? I've fully admitted I have used PFF plenty in the past to make a point. And I'm sure I will still use it some as like I have said over and over but you still seem to keep missing in me saying it still has some value just is a flawed system.

As for Carr I have not said that he doesn't have value as a QB. I have said I don't think he is as good as you think he is. Really a lot of actual stats himself as a QB did not change from year 1 to year 2. What changed was the weapons around him taking that 5 yard pass for 20 yards instead of just getting tackled right away. I think he is a guy that falls into that 10-15 range as a QB which there is nothing wrong with that. A lot of great QB's fall into that spot like Joe Flacco and Eli Manning that have won Super Bowls. Those are the players that need a little more around them but can still put up good to great stats. I just don't see Carr as an elite prospect. I have been wrong plenty so don't worry you could easily be proven right that you shouldn't want to take any QB other than him. Right now I have plenty for this upcoming season though that I would rather take. I would take Carr on the Broncos right now though over anything we will most likely trott onto the field.

Then why didn't you say last year?? Idaho, PFF is a flawed system but im still going to use them, as some of there stuff is pretty right on.. And of course people are allowed to grow and change, heck i grow and change all the time.. Relax man, im not going to hammer this web site with PFF and pro bowl player stats.. I will argue that we will WIN the best division in Pro Sports!! The AFC West!!
This what i love about this site?? When you talk the talk you better be ready to walk the walk!! HardCore blogging!! Rival Fan against Rival Fan.. Not for the weak if you want to talk smack..

Anyways cd, you and very very few out there are the only one's peddling against the tide when it comes to Carr!!
Does he need more work?? Of course he does!! But he's good enough now to WIN the West and make a playoff run!! Now, will we make the playoffs?? That remains to be seen man.. But i will make my case all offseason..
As im sure you will as well.. Hey?? You are the defending Champ for crying out loud, so you have a good case to make.. We coming for you and Denver cd..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

So you are basing your thoughts on the Raiders off of one game where you guys beat us when we had our back up QB in and our offense could only muster 12 points? I guess for me I look at the Raiders last year as a team that beat the teams they were expected to (other than the Broncos) and lost to a lot of average to good teams. I mean 5 of the 7 wins came against teams picking in the top-6 of the upcoming draft. You beat the Jets and us as the only I would call quality wins on the season. I need to see the Raiders win a few more against quality opponents before I start going crazy about what they can do on the field. Not beat a team with their back up QB in when the team is showing a very tough period of struggling. I mean that was the stretch of the season we went 3-4 over a 7 game stretch. We were not a very good team at that time.

I don't base anything on one game dude.. My agrument there was no sweep for you guys.. It's a combination of games, player growth, FA additions, draft picks, ETC, ETC..

 

[cdumler7]

Then why didn't you say last year?? Idaho, PFF is a flawed system but im still going to use them, as some of there stuff is pretty right on.. And of course people are allowed to grow and change, heck i grow and change all the time.. Relax man, im not going to hammer this web site with PFF and pro bowl player stats.. I will argue that we will WIN the best division in Pro Sports!! The AFC West!!
This what i love about this site?? When you talk the talk you better be ready to walk the walk!! HardCore blogging!! Rival Fan against Rival Fan.. Not for the weak if you want to talk smack..

Anyways cd, you and very very few out there are the only one's peddling against the tide when it comes to Carr!!
Does he need more work?? Of course he does!! But he's good enough now to WIN the West and make a playoff run!! Now, will we make the playoffs?? That remains to be seen man.. But i will make my case all offseason..
As im sure you will as well.. Hey?? You are the defending Champ for crying out loud, so you have a good case to make.. We coming for you and Denver cd..

I have been saying it now for a year that PFF is a flawed site. I started listening to actual players talk about the website back then that peaked my interest and the more I listened to players who have played the game talk about it the more I realized maybe this isn't the best thing to be using. Again it still has value just not my top site. Also why I stopped a year ago using it as much is because that is when I figured a few other websites out that I think do a much better job of explaining their stats and how they got to what they did. More so than "I watched the game and gave them a point or took a point away depending on the play." I mean just look at you and me right now in you think Carr is maybe the best QB in the league where I put him closer to 12-15 range. We are watching the same thing but coming to 2 completely different conclusions. That is why for me PFF is a site that I caution against some.

You are right about one thing though the AFC West is looking like the best division in the NFL. Going to be some crazy divisional games next year. I'm hoping maybe to make it out to the San Diego game as my wife loves San Diego so figure I can talk her into a quick vacation to go watch the Broncos play.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

I have been saying it now for a year that PFF is a flawed site. I started listening to actual players talk about the website back then that peaked my interest and the more I listened to players who have played the game talk about it the more I realized maybe this isn't the best thing to be using. Again it still has value just not my top site. Also why I stopped a year ago using it as much is because that is when I figured a few other websites out that I think do a much better job of explaining their stats and how they got to what they did. More so than "I watched the game and gave them a point or took a point away depending on the play." I mean just look at you and me right now in you think Carr is maybe the best QB in the league where I put him closer to 12-15 range. We are watching the same thing but coming to 2 completely different conclusions. That is why for me PFF is a site that I caution against some.

You are right about one thing though the AFC West is looking like the best division in the NFL. Going to be some crazy divisional games next year. I'm hoping maybe to make it out to the San Diego game as my wife loves San Diego so figure I can talk her into a quick vacation to go watch the Broncos play.

Cool on the PFF front dude.. And i put Carr in the top 10, where on that top 10 is debatable..
And yeah, i agree the West will be a bloodbath this year!! Ya know who im picking, and like i said i will make my case as the year moves along, but the West is truly open this year, with some pretty evenly matched teams..
Who you guys drafting dude?? And if it's QB will he impact the team this year??
There's a few guys i would like the RAIDERS to draft at 14, and i will get into that soon enough..
Gotta jet dude..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

So, Mark had a meeting with the Nevada Governor eh.. The wheels are in motion and the only thing that can stop it is Oakland hooking Mark up!! Las Vegas RAIDERS.. Come for the weekend, and i shall show you a good time..

 

[DJ]

There were things I liked that San Diego did and things that left me scratching my head. Travis Benjamin was a very good signing for the price they got him at. To me he is one of the more underrated WR's in the NFL right now. Mebane didn't really excite me for a signing. 3-4 years ago when he was on the market that would have been huge but a couple of injuries and years later he is at best a rotational piece. Hayward I am going to have to see how they use him. He is a bit of a hot and cold guy. Came onto the scene with an incredible rookie year but has somewhat cooled off since then.

As for the players they kept compared to let walk I thought keeping Gates was a huge mistake. He maybe Maybe has one more decent year left. If I were them I would have rather kept Green. I also was a Kendall Reyes fan just thought they didn't use him right. So for me I look at FA as a time they didn't get much worse or better.

For the Chiefs I think I have made it pretty clear that I loved the move to sign Schwartz. I still consider it the best move in the first few days of FA especially for the price they got him at. I thought they then went and overpaid for Rod Streater. I know they are lacking for depth at the WR position but I thought they could have done more with the money they do have. Really like you said it was more about the players they did keep then about going out and trying to sign other people's FA's. They have a good team just need some guys on rookie contracts to step up and have a decent to good draft and they should be right in the thick of things.

As for losing Smith I guess to me I don't view it as big of a hit as you do. Marcus Peters showed he is a #1 Corner and could enter this season as possibly a top-5 player at the position if he can continue how he finished the 2nd half of last year. Philip Gaines is a guy I really liked coming out of the draft and he has showed promise just needs to stay healthy. I'm sure they will use a top-3 round pick on another Corner but I don't think they will miss Smith a ton. He was good to have as it gave them great depth at the position but they are strong throughout that defense.

They let Green go? Damn.

 

[DJ]

Sorry? I think he is a good #2 Corner. When he has had a good Corner on the other side where they can help by rolling coverage to his side he has done well. He does his best when being able to be physical but because he doesn't have the top end speed he is vulnerable to getting beat over the top especially by the quick guys. In the AFC West he will be going against guys like Sanders, Benjamin, and Maclin who are all quick guys that can beat press coverage. Again if you guys find somebody on the other side that can handle things on an island I think he can do well but while I think he helps a team he is on he is also a guy that I find replaceable. Just my opinion and obviously one of the Chiefs as well since they made the choice to let him walk instead of some other guys.

As for the AFC West I think the Broncos have as good of a chance as any of the teams to win it. I need to see more of the off season play out though before getting too excited or depressed. I like what the Broncos have done to rebuild the OL. They at least on paper look younger and better than the unit they played most of the year last year. So that should help any QB coming in. They still have possibly the 2 best WR's in the AFC in Sanders and DT so good weapons for any QB to work with. CJ Anderson can be a top-5 RB in the NFL when he is healthy and in shape. Problem with him has always been he shows up to camp out of shape and it takes him 8 games before he gets going. He has though finished with the most yards of any player when combining the final 8 games of the past 2 years. I'm just hoping this is the year he gets a little more serious in April-July in getting ready for the season and we see a full 16 games instead of just 8. Defensively the Broncos are still the most talented group in the AFC West even with missing a couple of players from last year's group. Their pass rush should actually be better this year with Shaq and Ray both having a year of actual experience. The Secondary is still completely intact so they should be fine there. They might be a bit more vulnerable to the run game without Malik and Trevathan but just have to see how their replacements do. And again they should have a good special teams unit. So really it comes down to what can they get from the QB position. If they get average or better play from their QB then I think they are a 12-4 or better team. If they get below average play like last year then I think they are closer to an 8-8 team.

If they end up rolling Sanchez out there as the opening day starter....they're looking at a 9-7 season imo. Even with that nasty defense. The Raiders will be right there fighting for the AFC West title.

 

[DJ]

Also not all your FA's last year were great fits. Curtis Lofton who I told you was overrated has already been cut by the Raiders after just one season. Richardson didn't last long. Nate Allen was cut and then re-signed to a lesser deal because he didn't have that great of a season with injuries and such. So right now I would say Dan Williams and Rodney Hudson are about the only 2 FA's from last years group that have shown much of anything of actually contributing.

I agree with this but this offseason we smacked a grand slam.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

If they end up rolling Sanchez out there as the opening day starter....they're looking at a 9-7 season imo. Even with that nasty defense. The Raiders will be right there fighting for the AFC West title.

Unless they make a blockbuster trade, that's the starter!! And that record is pretty right on, if indeed they roll Sanchez out..

 

[cdumler7]

I agree with this but this offseason we smacked a grand slam.

I like the moves the Raiders made this year but then again we have heard before of moves being a grand slam and not working out. Like I said I want to Osomele in the system before I say that is a grand slam hit. The Ravens run a completely different system than what the Raiders run so have to see how that switch goes for him. The other part is nobody knows how a player will respond to big money. That is always the unknown of they have worked their entire career to get that huge pay day and now that they got it they can sometimes lose some motivation.

I mean just some names Albert Haynesworth is probably the most well known. Javon Walker was one for you guys. He played well in Denver then inked a giant contract with you guys. He then went on to only play 10 games and made over $21 million in 2 years from the Raiders. DeAngelo Hall was another one for the Raiders. He ended up only playing 8 games for you guys making over $8 million. Thankfully for you guys you saw it wasn't working well and cut ties early. Outside of the Raiders you have Michael Vick, Shaun Alexander, Joe Johnson, and so on.

That is why for me I like to wait and see what they do on the field before calling them a grand slam. Same when they hand out draft grades. I mean the Seahawks are a great example when they drafted Russell Wilson and others that turned into All-Pro players. They got an F grade from some of the top analyst in the country. So while something will look good or bad on paper it doesn't mean that it will turn into that on the field.

 

[cdumler7]

If they end up rolling Sanchez out there as the opening day starter....they're looking at a 9-7 season imo. Even with that nasty defense. The Raiders will be right there fighting for the AFC West title.

If I was a betting man I would say Sanchez is not our day 1 starter. Or if he is we have a rookie replacing him a few games into the season as they get some more time to learn the system. I'm still thinking Elway gets something done that surprises some people.