What do the RAIDERS need

[idahoraiderfan33]

There were things I liked that San Diego did and things that left me scratching my head. Travis Benjamin was a very good signing for the price they got him at. To me he is one of the more underrated WR's in the NFL right now. Mebane didn't really excite me for a signing. 3-4 years ago when he was on the market that would have been huge but a couple of injuries and years later he is at best a rotational piece. Hayward I am going to have to see how they use him. He is a bit of a hot and cold guy. Came onto the scene with an incredible rookie year but has somewhat cooled off since then.

As for the players they kept compared to let walk I thought keeping Gates was a huge mistake. He maybe Maybe has one more decent year left. If I were them I would have rather kept Green. I also was a Kendall Reyes fan just thought they didn't use him right. So for me I look at FA as a time they didn't get much worse or better.

For the Chiefs I think I have made it pretty clear that I loved the move to sign Schwartz. I still consider it the best move in the first few days of FA especially for the price they got him at. I thought they then went and overpaid for Rod Streater. I know they are lacking for depth at the WR position but I thought they could have done more with the money they do have. Really like you said it was more about the players they did keep then about going out and trying to sign other people's FA's. They have a good team just need some guys on rookie contracts to step up and have a decent to good draft and they should be right in the thick of things.

As for losing Smith I guess to me I don't view it as big of a hit as you do. Marcus Peters showed he is a #1 Corner and could enter this season as possibly a top-5 player at the position if he can continue how he finished the 2nd half of last year. Philip Gaines is a guy I really liked coming out of the draft and he has showed promise just needs to stay healthy. I'm sure they will use a top-3 round pick on another Corner but I don't think they will miss Smith a ton. He was good to have as it gave them great depth at the position but they are strong throughout that defense.

cd, you trippin man if you think, losing Smith for KC won't hurt them.. Heck you just might be the only one in the football world that thinks that.. Cmon man, that was was just silly.. And i agree with some of the other stuff you said.. I do think the Bolts will be better this year, and KC will be pretty good as well.. But make no mistake, them losing Smith and joining us, hurts them and helps us..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Oh and we get Aldon Smith back as well.. Hopefully the league will trim a few games, but we still get him back!!
Aldon Smith is a great player and we could get him back just in time..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

cd, will you guys win the AFC West??

 

[cdumler7]

cd, you trippin man if you think, losing Smith for KC won't hurt them.. Heck you just might be the only one in the football world that thinks that.. Cmon man, that was was just silly.. And i agree with some of the other stuff you said.. I do think the Bolts will be better this year, and KC will be pretty good as well.. But make no mistake, them losing Smith and joining us, hurts them and helps us..

Sorry? I think he is a good #2 Corner. When he has had a good Corner on the other side where they can help by rolling coverage to his side he has done well. He does his best when being able to be physical but because he doesn't have the top end speed he is vulnerable to getting beat over the top especially by the quick guys. In the AFC West he will be going against guys like Sanders, Benjamin, and Maclin who are all quick guys that can beat press coverage. Again if you guys find somebody on the other side that can handle things on an island I think he can do well but while I think he helps a team he is on he is also a guy that I find replaceable. Just my opinion and obviously one of the Chiefs as well since they made the choice to let him walk instead of some other guys.

As for the AFC West I think the Broncos have as good of a chance as any of the teams to win it. I need to see more of the off season play out though before getting too excited or depressed. I like what the Broncos have done to rebuild the OL. They at least on paper look younger and better than the unit they played most of the year last year. So that should help any QB coming in. They still have possibly the 2 best WR's in the AFC in Sanders and DT so good weapons for any QB to work with. CJ Anderson can be a top-5 RB in the NFL when he is healthy and in shape. Problem with him has always been he shows up to camp out of shape and it takes him 8 games before he gets going. He has though finished with the most yards of any player when combining the final 8 games of the past 2 years. I'm just hoping this is the year he gets a little more serious in April-July in getting ready for the season and we see a full 16 games instead of just 8. Defensively the Broncos are still the most talented group in the AFC West even with missing a couple of players from last year's group. Their pass rush should actually be better this year with Shaq and Ray both having a year of actual experience. The Secondary is still completely intact so they should be fine there. They might be a bit more vulnerable to the run game without Malik and Trevathan but just have to see how their replacements do. And again they should have a good special teams unit. So really it comes down to what can they get from the QB position. If they get average or better play from their QB then I think they are a 12-4 or better team. If they get below average play like last year then I think they are closer to an 8-8 team.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Sorry? I think he is a good #2 Corner. When he has had a good Corner on the other side where they can help by rolling coverage to his side he has done well. He does his best when being able to be physical but because he doesn't have the top end speed he is vulnerable to getting beat over the top especially by the quick guys. In the AFC West he will be going against guys like Sanders, Benjamin, and Maclin who are all quick guys that can beat press coverage. Again if you guys find somebody on the other side that can handle things on an island I think he can do well but while I think he helps a team he is on he is also a guy that I find replaceable. Just my opinion and obviously one of the Chiefs as well since they made the choice to let him walk instead of some other guys.

As for the AFC West I think the Broncos have as good of a chance as any of the teams to win it. I need to see more of the off season play out though before getting too excited or depressed. I like what the Broncos have done to rebuild the OL. They at least on paper look younger and better than the unit they played most of the year last year. So that should help any QB coming in. They still have possibly the 2 best WR's in the AFC in Sanders and DT so good weapons for any QB to work with. CJ Anderson can be a top-5 RB in the NFL when he is healthy and in shape. Problem with him has always been he shows up to camp out of shape and it takes him 8 games before he gets going. He has though finished with the most yards of any player when combining the final 8 games of the past 2 years. I'm just hoping this is the year he gets a little more serious in April-July in getting ready for the season and we see a full 16 games instead of just 8. Defensively the Broncos are still the most talented group in the AFC West even with missing a couple of players from last year's group. Their pass rush should actually be better this year with Shaq and Ray both having a year of actual experience. The Secondary is still completely intact so they should be fine there. They might be a bit more vulnerable to the run game without Malik and Trevathan but just have to see how their replacements do. And again they should have a good special teams unit. So really it comes down to what can they get from the QB position. If they get average or better play from their QB then I think they are a 12-4 or better team. If they get below average play like last year then I think they are closer to an 8-8 team.

Im sorry but i just don't agree or anybody else for that matter on Smith.. And they didn't let him walk, we out bid them.. We now have one of the better Secondary's in football.. Im not worried about those WRs you just mentioned.. Not at all.. But hey?? We shall see once the season starts..

I think the division will be a bloodbath, but the RAIDERS win it imo.. KC comes in 2nd and you guys and the Bolts fight it out for 3rd.. New season, new players, new expectations.. I just think the RAIDERS are the better team right now.. But then again?? Anything can happen in the AFC West!! It should be a fun season for all 4 teams.. Alot of people out there are picking the RAIDERS this year not just me.. But of course, there's a reason why they play the game..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Heck, i do believe we held you guys without an Offensive TD in both our games?? And that was without Smith!!
The QBs in those games were PMoney and Osweiler!!

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

And KC got a pretty good RT, but we got the highest rated OL player in FA this year in KO!!
They say our OL could rival the Cowboys OL for best in the league!! Heck, i believe we were the only team with all 5 OL player with a 79 or higher!! So says suddenly no Cred pff..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

cd, you guys are the defending SB champs, and the team to beat, not only in our division but the league!!
The defending Champ is always the team to beat in ALL sports!! Nobody can argue that, cuz it is what it is.. My argument is we win the division..

 

[cdumler7]

Im sorry but i just don't agree or anybody else for that matter on Smith.. And they didn't let him walk, we out bid them.. We now have one of the better Secondary's in football.. Im not worried about those WRs you just mentioned.. Not at all.. But hey?? We shall see once the season starts..

I think the division will be a bloodbath, but the RAIDERS win it imo.. KC comes in 2nd and you guys and the Bolts fight it out for 3rd.. New season, new players, new expectations.. I just think the RAIDERS are the better team right now.. But then again?? Anything can happen in the AFC West!! It should be a fun season for all 4 teams.. Alot of people out there are picking the RAIDERS this year not just me.. But of course, there's a reason why they play the game..

You can't speak for everybody else here Idaho. I've seen plenty that have a similar opinion to mine so don't think this is just coming out of left field. Again Smith is a good Corner. I'm not saying he isn't. I'm saying I don't view him among the elite Corners in our game today and he makes a much better #2 than a #1. This is the part about debate that happens. We are not going to agree on some things and that doesn't mean we are either right or wrong. Just have to wait and see how the season goes.

As for one of the better secondaries in football come on Idaho. Your Corners look decent to good but those safeties man oh man do not look good with Woodson retiring.

As for the division you could be right. I see it a bit different obviously. I do think the Broncos come out on top. They will get the QB situation figured out and I can almost promise they will get better production from the position than last year where they finished 31st in combined QB Rating from Osweiler/Manning.

As for the Chiefs not sure if you heard but good chance they are without their best player on the entire team in Justin Houston for almost half the year with ACL Surgery just a month ago. There is some talk that they will IR him for the entire season. That is huge news for our division. So right now I have it Broncos 1st, Raiders 2nd, Chiefs 3rd, and Chargers 4th. Again though this is early in the process. I don't know who the starter at QB is for the Broncos and that is huge news so until that gets settled hard to predict how they will do. They still have a top-3 defense though in the league and last season I think 8 of the top-10 defensive teams made the playoffs so that will always give them a shot to keep games close. They should have a better OL and some of the best weapons in the AFC West right now for any QB to work with.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Oh i agree for sure man.. Our guy was a 2nd year guy last year that had his struggles, but also had some great games as well.. He needs more work, but now entering his 3rd year he will be ready to play at the next level..

I see the Giants really loaded up on the D side of the ball.. You guys got Vernon and Jenkins!! Young top FAs..
The Giants are going to be a good team this year imo.. One of the early favorites in the NFC in my imo!!
Man, RAIDER fans including me wanted Vernon.. Can't get them all though..

Agreed, Carr is on a nice trajectory...As he and his progress goes, so goes the Raiders this season IMO

Yes, like the moves the Giants have made, adding to the dead last ranked defense...Id love to see them think outside the box and draft Ezeke Elliott, the entire offense right now is too reliant on Eli to Odell, and not much else

Giants fans wanted Bruce Irvin, so I guess the Vernon deal makes us even

 

[cdumler7]

And KC got a pretty good RT, but we got the highest rated OL player in FA this year in KO!!
They say our OL could rival the Cowboys OL for best in the league!! Heck, i believe we were the only team with all 5 OL player with a 79 or higher!! So says suddenly no Cred pff..

Idaho you miss a very important part of the equation though. When comparing who the Chiefs got for RT and who you got for LG price matters. Chiefs paid half the amount that you did for a player of similar ability at a more important position. Yes you guys have a great OL but that is where you have paid your money. So you better hope those guys stay healthy and can gel together as a unit because your FO has banked on that OL being dominant. Yes I do think they could be the best in the league if they can put it all together but there are a lot of moving pieces to that puzzle. You have Gabe Jackson playing an entirely new position. You have Penn another year older. You have your Center coming off an injury plagued year and you have a new player moving in. So there are some question marks.

Again though like I said with why I consider the Chiefs to have gotten the deal of FA is because of the price compared to the value of the player. Your guy is a very good player but you paid $3.7 million more per year for your guy than the next highest player at his position. I mean you guys just broke the market for the LG position. Most years we see a slight increase from the year before on how much a position is making. You just increased the market by 32%. So while you got a great player and I'm sure he will do great for you guys you also grossly overpaid for his talents. Which hey the Raiders had to do because they were grossly below the Salary Cap Floor and were looking at some major fines if they didn't spend big this off season. So I understand why they did it but usually players who are grossly overpaid are the ones cut in 2-years looking for brand new work because they couldn't live up to expectations.

 

[cdumler7]

Agreed, Carr is on a nice trajectory...As he and his progress goes, so goes the Raiders this season IMO

Yes, like the moves the Giants have made, adding to the dead last ranked defense...Id love to see them think outside the box and draft Ezeke Elliott, the entire offense right now is too reliant on Eli to Odell, and not much else

Giants fans wanted Bruce Irvin, so I guess the Vernon deal makes us even

If I had to choose I would definitely take Vernon of the two. He has shown to be the better pass rusher at this point. You know what you have in him. Irvin while having elite athletic skills hasn't always shown that his technique has caught up to his athleticism.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

If I had to choose I would definitely take Vernon of the two. He has shown to be the better pass rusher at this point. You know what you have in him. Irvin while having elite athletic skills hasn't always shown that his technique has caught up to his athleticism.

Totally agree, my only angle would be that a hypothetical situation financially, could have been Irvin PLUS Okung, for the money they gave Vernon alone...And Okung was a huge need as well

 

[cdumler7]

Totally agree, my only angle would be that a hypothetical situation financially, could have been Irvin PLUS Okung, for the money they gave Vernon alone...And Okung was a huge need as well

Good point. I did just make the argument for the difference in contract needing to be a factor in the equation. I guess for me with Irvin I just don't exactly know what he is. He says he got misused in Seattle but to me them being the best defense for pretty much the last 3-4 years in the league shows they have a pretty darn good idea of what they have and play to the strengths of a player. I just think Irvin is not quite the pass rusher that he was supposed to be coming out of college. He just has not done well technique wise. I have watched quite a few of his games and have come away unimpressed when he gets after the QB. I mean just a stat I saw the other day is that in 4 seasons Irvin has only forced 4 fumbles. The Broncos this past year had a back up OLB force 5 his first year on the team coming off the practice squad as an Undrafted player.

With Vernon I have actually seen it though and see the potential for him to be a top-3 pass rusher in this league. So I guess worth it maybe to have paid just a bit more for a proven player compared to one that just hasn't quite shown where he best fits on a defense.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Good point. I did just make the argument for the difference in contract needing to be a factor in the equation. I guess for me with Irvin I just don't exactly know what he is. He says he got misused in Seattle but to me them being the best defense for pretty much the last 3-4 years in the league shows they have a pretty darn good idea of what they have and play to the strengths of a player. I just think Irvin is not quite the pass rusher that he was supposed to be coming out of college. He just has not done well technique wise. I have watched quite a few of his games and have come away unimpressed when he gets after the QB. I mean just a stat I saw the other day is that in 4 seasons Irvin has only forced 4 fumbles. The Broncos this past year had a back up OLB force 5 his first year on the team coming off the practice squad as an Undrafted player.

With Vernon I have actually seen it though and see the potential for him to be a top-3 pass rusher in this league. So I guess worth it maybe to have paid just a bit more for a proven player compared to one that just hasn't quite shown where he best fits on a defense.

I like what youre talking!

I agree Vernon not only has more upside, but more versatility to his game....Irvin is probably strictly a pass rusher, and how good of one is in question, while I expect Vernon to be a defensive playmaker for the Giants...Something they sorely need

 

[cdumler7]

I like what youre talking!

I agree Vernon not only has more upside, but more versatility to his game....Irvin is probably strictly a pass rusher, and how good of one is in question, while I expect Vernon to be a defensive playmaker for the Giants...Something they sorely need

Yeah I loved watching Vernon over the 2nd half of this past season. Man was he everywhere. I remember watching the Patriots game at the end of the year and man was he a wreaking ball. They tried to double him and he still found ways to get pressure. I think you guys are trying to build that defense a lot like you had back in the Super Bowl years with a ton of pressure up front making life hell for QB's. Should be a fun group to watch.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Yeah I loved watching Vernon over the 2nd half of this past season. Man was he everywhere. I remember watching the Patriots game at the end of the year and man was he a wreaking ball. They tried to double him and he still found ways to get pressure. I think you guys are trying to build that defense a lot like you had back in the Super Bowl years with a ton of pressure up front making life hell for QB's. Should be a fun group to watch.

If JPP can return to a somewhat dominant form of what he once was, the front four should be a real handful to deal with

Now we just need to round out the roster with a solid draft, something Jerry Reece has struck out on forever.....Odell aside, which has actually saved his job

 

[cdumler7]

If JPP can return to a somewhat dominant form of what he once was, the front four should be a real handful to deal with

Now we just need to round out the roster with a solid draft, something Jerry Reece has struck out on forever.....Odell aside, which has actually saved his job

I think he has done ok draft wise. I do like some of the guys they have drafted. Ereck Flowers before he had to move over to LT was doing really well at the RT position from what I could tell and was hearing. Landon Collins I thought was a nice steal on day 2 of the draft last year. Richburg the year before looks like one of the top Centers in the league. I was so mad the Broncos with him just down the road at Colorado State didn't try to get him. He did go a bit earlier than I expected but he has emerged as a great young OL player for you guys. To me the early rounds the Giants have done well but to become a great team it is the later round picks that need to show up in years 2-4.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

You can't speak for everybody else here Idaho. I've seen plenty that have a similar opinion to mine so don't think this is just coming out of left field. Again Smith is a good Corner. I'm not saying he isn't. I'm saying I don't view him among the elite Corners in our game today and he makes a much better #2 than a #1. This is the part about debate that happens. We are not going to agree on some things and that doesn't mean we are either right or wrong. Just have to wait and see how the season goes.

As for one of the better secondaries in football come on Idaho. Your Corners look decent to good but those safeties man oh man do not look good with Woodson retiring.

As for the division you could be right. I see it a bit different obviously. I do think the Broncos come out on top. They will get the QB situation figured out and I can almost promise they will get better production from the position than last year where they finished 31st in combined QB Rating from Osweiler/Manning.

As for the Chiefs not sure if you heard but good chance they are without their best player on the entire team in Justin Houston for almost half the year with ACL Surgery just a month ago. There is some talk that they will IR him for the entire season. That is huge news for our division. So right now I have it Broncos 1st, Raiders 2nd, Chiefs 3rd, and Chargers 4th. Again though this is early in the process. I don't know who the starter at QB is for the Broncos and that is huge news so until that gets settled hard to predict how they will do. They still have a top-3 defense though in the league and last season I think 8 of the top-10 defensive teams made the playoffs so that will always give them a shot to keep games close. They should have a better OL and some of the best weapons in the AFC West right now for any QB to work with.

cd, i ain't seen that opinion from anybody important, and besides what matters is the RAIDERS think he's a good Corner as did KC, SF, ETC.. So what you think really don't matter.. And i already showed you what PFF had to say about our corners.. Oh but that's right, they have no Cred this year.. Hmmm i wonder why.. They will be one of the better secondary's this year bet on it dude.. And who knows?? We might even add another DB with our first pick..

And of course you think Denver will come out on top!! I would be disappoint if you said they will suck, same goes for KC fan and Bolt fan.. I want ALL 4 fan bases to say they WILL win the West!! It' makes it that much better.. I give all 4 teams a shot, i just think the RAIDERS will come out on top..

And yeah, i heard about Houston.. Crappy for them for sure!! That's like Mack for us and Miller for you guys.. Major blow.. Shefter is saying he might not even play this year.. Ouch!! Injury's are just plain killers!! But sadly part of the game..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

If I had to choose I would definitely take Vernon of the two. He has shown to be the better pass rusher at this point. You know what you have in him. Irvin while having elite athletic skills hasn't always shown that his technique has caught up to his athleticism.

Don't you worry about Irvin cd.. KNJ has major plans for him.. Irvin is big time.. Mack and Irvin coming at you soon!!