Series Thread: WCF: 1) Golden State Warriors vs 3) Portland Trail Blazers

[Heatles84]

It was the perfect storm to create the Warriors. Everything...literally everything went right for the Warriors to be in the position they were in.

Mark Jackson preaching defense and letting Steph and Klay develop. Steph's ankle injury and below market deal. Cap spike. Jerry West not letting the front office trade Klay for K-Love. Drafting Draymond with their 3RD pick of that draft in the second round. The Knicks lowballing Kerr, when it was all but set he was going there and then him signing with the Warriors. Dwight Howard refusing to join the Warriors and then they pivoted to Andre Iguodala. Warriors signing Shaun Livingston to a MLE. Getting a resurrected Leandro Barbosa when he was essentially out of the league. David Lee getting injured which prompted Draymond into the starting lineup where he never relinquished his role.

I can go on and on. Everything worked out PERFECTLY for the Warriors.

This is what I'm saying.

 

[CitySushi]

You really are incredibly smart... Only thing, you fail to suggest ....an alternative that beats it and additionally that...AD & Jrue approves the destination!

-CJ, Nurkic, and 1st RD Pick for AD and Solomon Hill.
-Jayson Tatum, Marcus Smart, 3 1st RD Draft picks for AD
-Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, 2 1st RD picks for AD and Solomon Hill. Also creates a 16M trade exception which can be traded for more assets.
-Ben Simmons, Zhaire Smith, 1st RD pick for AD.

All better than your offer.

 

[Shanemansj13]

You clearly don't understand how cap space works... The Bucks only have 72M of guaranteed salaries for next season and that includes 19M of Snell (bird) and Ilyasova (MLE) both of which will most probably be moved next season... (leaving buck 53M of guaranteed contracts) Therefore if the Bucks can have Middleton moved (on a "sign and trade" max), and add Lopez, Brogdon, Snell & Ilyasova, they can end up to only resign Mirotic & Hill (some 18M combined) and additionally add AD and Jrue Holliday without ever paying a penny of lux tax for next season... and they'll still have another 10M to spend on FA role players as to sign 2 or 3 of them and end up with a 15 players (all useful) roster...

Ok...why would the Pelicans want a player, Middleton, who costs more money (not on a rookie contract) than AD and isn't even a star. This is exactly why this scenario is so make believe. You clearly don't know how to value trades. Just stop, please. This isn't NBA2K.

The funny thing is you ACTUALLY believe the Pelicans will swap out AD and Jrue's contracts for less players at a bigger price.


Your proposed trade:

AD $27M
Jrue $26M

Middleton $32.7M (sign and trade max)
Brogdon (sign and trade) $12-$15M maybe more
Lopez (sign and trade) $12-$15M
Snell $11.3M
Ilyasova $7M

Most likely the salaries for these players will be around $70-$80M bc you sign Middleton to a max. You have to sign Brogdon and Lopez and they will be ask at least $10M a year but most likely more so we will say $12-15M.

They would have enough to take back all these contracts but why? LOL That is what you are not getting. They will be over the cap with not one star, barely an All-Star. THIS TRADE MAKES ZERO SENSE and the chance of a 3 player sign and trade happening is about 1 in a billion bc it's never happened.

Your scenario is so far-fetched I have to really ask if this is just a troll. It's gotta be a troll.

 

[Shanemansj13]

-CJ, Nurkic, and 1st RD Pick for AD and Solomon Hill.
-Jayson Tatum, Marcus Smart, 3 1st RD Draft picks for AD
-Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, 2 1st RD picks for AD and Solomon Hill. Also creates a 16M trade exception which can be traded for more assets.
-Ben Simmons, Zhaire Smith, 1st RD pick for AD.

All better than your offer.

WAY BETTER and it's not close and they don't have to take back $70M LOL

 

[buckalis]

-CJ, Nurkic, and 1st RD Pick for AD and Solomon Hill.
-Jayson Tatum, Marcus Smart, 3 1st RD Draft picks for AD
-Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, 2 1st RD picks for AD and Solomon Hill. Also creates a 16M trade exception which can be traded for more assets.
-Ben Simmons, Zhaire Smith, 1st RD pick for AD.

All better than your offer.

Really?

1. In all cases you count picks coming from bellow No 25 as being worthy for the Pelicans... They are not!
2. It was Solomon they would add last season (as to raise AD's value) but this was last season... This season Hill is expiring and they can use him as a "filler" in a 3-team deal and get a pick back... It will be AD + Jrue this season.
3. Celtics are not interested on trading Tatum, or Brown, or Smart, or Rozier anymore... All they care is to find a "customer" as to move Hayward and Hortford...
4. AD won't go to the Lakers
5. The other two "offers" are Lolable if compared with a deal that includes Middleton and Brogdon... The Pelicans could get more than that if they re-move Middleton later...

 

[shopson67]

Really?

1. In all cases you count picks coming from bellow No 25 as being worthy for the Pelicans... They are not!
2. It was Solomon they would add last season (as to raise AD's value) but this was last season... This season Hill is expiring and they can use him as a "filler" in a 3-team deal and get a pick back... It will be AD + Jrue this season.
3. Celtics are not interested on trading Tatum, or Brown, or Smart, or Rozier anymore... All they care is to find a "customer" as to move Hayward and Hortford...
4. AD won't go to the Lakers
5. The other two "offers" are Lolable if compared with a deal that includes Middleton and Brogdon... The Pelicans could get more than that if they re-move Middleton later...

1. Not in all cases. Lakers current pick is #11. Celtics could have multiple lottery picks depending on tonight.
2. Jrue is WAY too expensive to replace Hill as a salary dump.
3. Celtics plan hasn't been public, doubt they're looking to dump anyone with Kyrie already leaving (most likely). Horford may be expensive, but he's very important to this team.
4. AD won't go to the Lakers? He was clearly interested. Whether or not the team will trade him there is another story.
5. How are you trading Middleton (a free agent)?

All teams offers for AD will be tempered a bit by his looming free agency. Unless a team can get a commitment from him beyond this coming season, offers will be less than reported at the deadline.

 

[buckalis]

Ok...why would the Pelicans want a player, Middleton, who costs more money (not on a rookie contract) than AD and isn't even a star. This is exactly why this scenario is so make believe. You clearly don't know how to value trades. Just stop, please. This isn't NBA2K.

The funny thing is you ACTUALLY believe the Pelicans will swap out AD and Jrue's contracts for less players at a bigger price.


Your proposed trade:

AD $27M
Jrue $26M

Middleton $32.7M (sign and trade max)
Brogdon (sign and trade) $12-$15M maybe more
Lopez (sign and trade) $12-$15M
Snell $11.3M
Ilyasova $7M

Most likely the salaries for these players will be around $70-$80M bc you sign Middleton to a max. You have to sign Brogdon and Lopez and they will be ask at least $10M a year but most likely more so we will say $12-15M.

They would have enough to take back all these contracts but why? LOL That is what you are not getting. They will be over the cap with not one star, barely an All-Star. THIS TRADE MAKES ZERO SENSE and the chance of a 3 player sign and trade happening is about 1 in a billion bc it's never happened.

Your scenario is so far-fetched I have to really ask if this is just a troll. It's gotta be a troll.

1. It's no more than 70M
2. It's for a FULL five STARTERS roster... (two going out, five coming in)
3. All players are valuable if retraded
4. Nobody can give one better than Middleton...
5. If the Pelicans trade AD and JH, they want more value to be input than output, because other wise they are in danger to be penalized for being below the cap space minimum line...
6. With this roster + Randle + Wood + 2 free agents, the Pelicans are back to the playoffs...

 

[shopson67]

1. It's no more than 70M
2. It's for a FULL five STARTERS roster... (two going out, five coming in)
3. All players are valuable if retraded
4. Nobody can give one better than Middleton...
5. If the Pelicans trade AD and JH, they want more value to be input than output, because other wise they are in danger to be penalized for being below the cap space minimum line...
6. With this roster + Randle + Wood + 2 free agents, the Pelicans are back to the playoffs...

I'm not so sure you can package multiple S&T players together in a deal. Plus, you would have to convince those players to want to go to the Pelicans WITHOUT AD. Best of luck with that...

 

[Shanemansj13]

Really?

1. In all cases you count picks coming from bellow No 25 as being worthy for the Pelicans... They are not!
2. It was Solomon they would add last season (as to raise AD's value) but this was last season... This season Hill is expiring and they can use him as a "filler" in a 3-team deal and get a pick back... It will be AD + Jrue this season.
3. Celtics are not interested on trading Tatum, or Brown, or Smart, or Rozier anymore... All they care is to find a "customer" as to move Hayward and Hortford...
4. AD won't go to the Lakers
5. The other two "offers" are Lolable if compared with a deal that includes Middleton and Brogdon... The Pelicans could get more than that if they re-move Middleton later...

So you are saying Middleton on a max deal is more valuable in a package than any of those players (some on rookie deals)? lolzzzz you have no idea

You need an education on trade value.

 

[LAD]

As I said, I can't figure out why they are doing this unless they hope to keep their upcoming opponents guessing. I hope I'm wrong, but calf strains happen from jumping. He was 4 or 5 steps up the floor, barely jogging, when he pulled up and his description of what he felt was exactly what numerous other folks who hurt their achilles described. I don't like it.

No he wasn't 4 or 5 steps into his motion. As soon as he came down from the shot he turn & took 1 step. He then immediately looked back to see if someone kicked him.

 

[Shanemansj13]

1. It's no more than 70M
2. It's for a FULL five STARTERS roster... (two going out, five coming in)
3. All players are valuable if retraded
4. Nobody can give one better than Middleton...
5. If the Pelicans trade AD and JH, they want more value to be input than output, because other wise they are in danger to be penalized for being below the cap space minimum line...
6. With this roster + Randle + Wood + 2 free agents, the Pelicans are back to the playoffs...

1. You have no idea. It's what the players demand, plus you have to get them to agree to a sign-and-trade. Not just one player, but three in this deal

3. Nope

4. Nope

5. Nope

6. Nope. WAY Nope. Randle, Middleton, Lopez and Brogdon isn't winning shit No clue who Wood is though.

You literally could not be more wrong.

 

[buckalis]

1. Not in all cases. Lakers current pick is #11. Celtics could have multiple lottery picks depending on tonight.
2. Jrue is WAY too expensive to replace Hill as a salary dump.
3. Celtics plan hasn't been public, doubt they're looking to dump anyone with Kyrie already leaving (most likely). Horford may be expensive, but he's very important to this team.
4. AD won't go to the Lakers? He was clearly interested. Whether or not the team will trade him there is another story.
5. How are you trading Middleton (a free agent)?

All teams offers for AD will be tempered a bit by his looming free agency. Unless a team can get a commitment from him beyond this coming season, offers will be less than reported at the deadline.

2. & 4. AD doesn't go to LA(O)L
1. & 3. The Celtics don't give their higher picks, nor they are interested to trade Tatum, or Brown , or Smart, or Rozier anymore... All they care is to find a "customer" and "unload" Hayward's and Hortford's contracts...
5. Via a "sign and trade" it's the only way Khris can be trade but still get a 5-year max...

 

[Shanemansj13]

If the Knicks get the #1 that is already an EASILY better off than any Bucks offer.

The Celtics, Trailblazers, 76ers even the Lakers can offer better deals, easily.

The thing I don't get is you think Mirotic is as good of a player as Middleton but than you think Middleton is the best trade value out of Mccollum, Tatum, Simmons, Ingram, Kuzma, etc....that literally makes no sense AND all those players are on better contracts.

 

[LAD]

I wonder if they have to wait for the swelling to subside before they can even consider surgery? Perhaps it doesn't hurt him to keep it under the vest for a short time?

No they don't. Kobe had his surgery the very next day after he tore his.

 

[buckalis]

WAY Nope. Randle, Middleton, Lopez and Brogdon isn't winning shit No clue who Wood is though.

You forgot Snell... For Wood look it up in the later Pelicans games (after the All Star game)... We've send him to them (and got Frazier back) via the "unofficial" - under the table - "waive and sign trade (?)" He is a downpayment...

 

[Heatles84]

I still maintain that it is an achilles injury and he will not be back this year. I don't know why the Warriors are playing this game but, you watch, they'll come out later and say "we've now noticed a slight achilles tear in addition to the "calf strain"
It will make this series and the next one, should they get there, which I believe they will, much more fun to watch.

Where'd you get your medical degree from again?

 

[Heatles84]

The details will be different but there are ways a super team can still form IMO. Maybe not this level but strong enough to win 2-3 in a row

The main premise of the argument is there will *****likely***** never be a team in the NBA again that will put together a team that's equal to what the Warriors have now.

Of course there's still a possibility of a dynasty, which I doubt ever comes to fruition. But you're not going to catch lightning in a bottle like the Warriors did again.

 

[buckalis]

I'm not so sure you can package multiple S&T players together in a deal. Plus, you would have to convince those players to want to go to the Pelicans WITHOUT AD. Best of luck with that...

Yes you can (add multiple S&T), you can even combine it with picks and players under contract...

There should be no problem with Middleton and Brogdon because it's the only way to get a 5-year contract... Lopez could be a problem, but then again, it's a package of friends that was working together for a whole season with beyond expectation success and they're gonna find there Christian Wood too...

 

[Wamu]

No they don't. Kobe had his surgery the very next day after he tore his.

Speaking of Jellybean Bryant did you know he had the option of getting an attitude transplant shortly after retirement but decided he'd rather be an asshole all his life?

 

[shopson67]

2. & 4. AD doesn't go to LA(O)L
1. & 3. The Celtics don't give their higher picks, nor they are interested to trade Tatum, or Brown , or Smart, or Rozier anymore... All they care is to find a "customer" and "unload" Hayward's and Hortford's contracts...
5. Via a "sign and trade" it's the only way Khris can be trade but still get a 5-year max...

Can't get a 5-year max with a S&T anymore.
Why NBA Sign-And-Trades Are Rare

Under the old CBA, a sign-and-trade deal allowed a player to sign for the true max – in terms of total years and annual raises – even though he wasn’t remaining with his previous team. That’s no longer the case.

If, for instance, the Raptors were to sign-and-trade Lowry to another club, he wouldn’t be able to receive the five years or 8% annual raises that he would if he re-signed with Toronto — he’d still be eligible for the same starting salary, but would be limited to four years and 5% raises, reducing the overall value of his max contract by about $50MM.