Vareen May Be History In New England

[Southieinnc]

I'd be shocked if the Pats give him 5 million for multiple seasons. I hope he sticks around, but he's going to need to bring his asking price down.

I don't have a problem with his "asking price" I'm more concerned with his "signing price"....

 

[RonBorges]

I don't have a problem with his "asking price" I'm more concerned with his "signing price"....

Why should you concern yourself with his signing price? As a fan, the only thing that matters is having the right players under contract and playing for your team.

I would be more concerned about Marcus Cannon's 3 year 9 million dollar deal. The buffoon can't block or keep his balance. Cannon's contract may be a blocker for more deserving players.

Letting Vareen go for a few million over 3 years is absurd and should not happen.

 

[BigKen]

Watching Sports Sunday last night and it's pretty much a given that nothing be done by the Patriots until Revis is resigned. Patriots won't know their CAP situation until Revis is under contract. Then McCourty is next to be signed followed by Gostkowski. Vareen will be fourth in line. There's also $19M in CAP money that has to be corrected that is due to Vince Wilfork and Jerod Mayo. That's the critical thing one has to keep in mind. Between Revis ($20M), Mayo($10.2M) and Wilfork ($8.8M) there's $39M of Cap money in 2015 that has to be fixed.

 

[BigKen]

I would be more concerned about Marcus Cannon's 3 year 9 million dollar deal. The buffoon can't block or keep his balance. Cannon's contract may be a blocker for more deserving players.

I think Cannon is history. He was basically a must use fill in this entire season. Kind of a last resort guy, but they just didn't have anyone better. You can pretty much bet that there will be at worst, a veteran OL who will sign for 1/3 of Cannon's money and place 3X as good.

 

[RonBorges]

I think Cannon is history. He was basically a must use fill in this entire season. Kind of a last resort guy, but they just didn't have anyone better. You can pretty much bet that there will be at worst, a veteran OL who will sign for 1/3 of Cannon's money and place 3X as good.

I find this approach to be very disappointing and unlike what I would expect from the NEP.
I thought they had slotted budget for various positions and they could negotiate players contracts independently from one another.

This sequential approach to negotiation makes it more likely that the guys at the end of the priority line end up leaving.
It only takes one guy to f up the entire off-season signing process

 

[SDGuy73]

Watching Sports Sunday last night and it's pretty much a given that nothing be done by the Patriots until Revis is resigned. Patriots won't know their CAP situation until Revis is under contract. Then McCourty is next to be signed followed by Gostkowski. Vareen will be fourth in line. There's also $19M in CAP money that has to be corrected that is due to Vince Wilfork and Jerod Mayo. That's the critical thing one has to keep in mind. Between Revis ($20M), Mayo($10.2M) and Wilfork ($8.8M) there's $39M of Cap money in 2015 that has to be fixed.

You can't just free up $19M in cap by cutting those two.

From Mike Reiss;

"6. Linebacker Jerod Mayo's $10.2 million salary-cap charge is third highest on the Patriots and is one area the team could look to for salary cap relief. But nothing seems to be imminent, in part because Mayo’s contract has a $4.5 million injury guarantee. So from this viewpoint, the first thing that has to happen is a full return to health for Mayo, then the sides could potentially talk about altering the deal. Cutting Mayo while still owing him $4.5 million wouldn't be sound business. "

 

[SDGuy73]

Second-year Patriots running back Tyler Gaffney is now 100 percent healthy, and he's a wild-card of sorts to consider in the team's plans. A sixth-round draft choice of the Panthers in 2014, he tore the lateral meniscus in his left knee in late July, Carolina waived him and the Patriots pounced with the future in mind. The 2015 draft is deep at running back, but Gaffney represents almost a "bonus" draft pick for the Patriots at the position. Gaffney has size at 5-foot-11 and 220 pounds, but his change-of-direction skills were also eye-catching last year when he recorded a 6.78 second three-cone time at the combine, which was second at the position.

 

[TDs3nOut]

I'm in the keep Shane if at all possible camp. Very versatile, dedicated and sure-handed.

I agree with that assessment. To me he is clearly the best all-around back in NE. Not to say that he can't be replaced and losing good players is often part of the business side of the league. He definitely played a key role last year, and he is capable of helping another team if the NE lets him go.

 

[BigKen]

There comes a point where a team has to swallow hard and do something, the Patriots have shown they are not the kind of team to sit back and wait.

Jerod Mayo. He's due a cap hit of $10.2M. He may have an in jury clause of $4.5M guaranteed, but he's been injured the past two seasons and I'm willing to bet that Belichick would rather pay him $4.5M and get the $10.2 cap space rather than hope he can play at his 2012 level and then see him get hurt again.

Vince Wilfork. He's a $8.8M cap hit. He'll be 34 and he knows that this was a sweetener when he signed the deal. He's a force in the middle but he's a two down DL. When you know you're only on the field for half of the defensive plays as does everyone else, it's pretty hard to justify that salary.

Marcus Cannon. He's had more than ample opportunity to make the starting 5 on the OL. He's not good enough. He can't pull because he's not fast enough to get in front of the running back. As big as he is, he gets pushed around by defensive linemen who are 30-40 lbs smaller than him. He was signed in hope that he'd belly up to the bar, instead, he's just stayed at the end of it. Time for a more versatile and 'tougher' guy to play.

The signings that the Patriots have to address are much more critical than any of these three guys. Freeing up the cash won't be that difficult if it guarantees Revis, McCourty, Vareen and Gostkowski are all resigned.....

 

[cdumler7]

Watching Sports Sunday last night and it's pretty much a given that nothing be done by the Patriots until Revis is resigned. Patriots won't know their CAP situation until Revis is under contract. Then McCourty is next to be signed followed by Gostkowski. Vareen will be fourth in line. There's also $19M in CAP money that has to be corrected that is due to Vince Wilfork and Jerod Mayo. That's the critical thing one has to keep in mind. Between Revis ($20M), Mayo($10.2M) and Wilfork ($8.8M) there's $39M of Cap money in 2015 that has to be fixed.

Your numbers are off here. Revis is a $25 million cap hit for this upcoming season not $20 million. He is getting paid $20 million but because the Pats pushed $5 million of it back to this season from last season his cap number is up and it is why no matter if they restructure, cut him, or whatever they still have a $5 million cap hit.

Throw in cutting Mayo does not get you $10.2 million in cap space. It would only get you $4.3 million in cap space. He has the $4.5 million guaranteed against injury but he also has another $1.5 million in guarantees meaning his dead money would be $6 million.

Also for those wanting Cannon gone he doesn't really save you any money. Almost all of his salary this year is guaranteed. You would get about $500,000 in actual cap space saved with about $2.2 million in dead money.

So really the only player that you can cut that would save a decent chunk of change that would actually allow you to resign guys like Revis, McCourty, Vareen, and Gostkowski is that of Wilfork who played more than half the snaps this last year BigKen as he was in on around 70% of the defensive snaps.

 

[SDGuy73]

Your numbers are off here. Revis is a $25 million cap hit for this upcoming season not $20 million. He is getting paid $20 million but because the Pats pushed $5 million of it back to this season from last season his cap number is up and it is why no matter if they restructure, cut him, or whatever they still have a $5 million cap hit.

Throw in cutting Mayo does not get you $10.2 million in cap space. It would only get you $4.3 million in cap space. He has the $4.5 million guaranteed against injury but he also has another $1.5 million in guarantees meaning his dead money would be $6 million.

Also for those wanting Cannon gone he doesn't really save you any money. Almost all of his salary this year is guaranteed. You would get about $500,000 in actual cap space saved with about $2.2 million in dead money.

So really the only player that you can cut that would save a decent chunk of change that would actually allow you to resign guys like Revis, McCourty, Vareen, and Gostkowski is that of Wilfork who played more than half the snaps this last year BigKen as he was in on around 70% of the defensive snaps.

WilforK got a big bonus for playing 70%. I believe it was $2M.

 

[cdumler7]

WilforK got a big bonus for playing 70%. I believe it was $2M.

Right which is why I commented towards that because BigKen had said he only plays about half the snaps on defense anyway. 20% more snaps is usually around 200 more snaps in a season so that is actually a pretty significant difference. That is usually about 3-4 games worth of snaps difference if he would have played every single snap so they are not just using him as a 2 down run stopper even if that is his forte.

 

[SDGuy73]

Right which is why I commented towards that because BigKen had said he only plays about half the snaps on defense anyway. 20% more snaps is usually around 200 more snaps in a season so that is actually a pretty significant difference. That is usually about 3-4 games worth of snaps difference if he would have played every single snap so they are not just using him as a 2 down run stopper even if that is his forte.

Right. I mentioned the bonus to back your point.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

Won't bother me if Shane goes. I think he is replaceable to be honest. This was his 1st healthy year. He is a 3rd down RB who wants 5mil a year? No thanks. I will take White or even sign Woodhead back, I remember TB12 liking him a lot. There are also a hand full of RB that can do what SV does in this draft. If not signing Shane means signing Revis, Ghost or DMC (who I think will be tagged), I am all for it. Prob looking at a RB core of Blount, Gaffeny, White, Bolden.

Kind of the reason I would like NE to look RB early if some are there. Be nice to have a 3 down back with Blount, Gaffney, White, Bolden. I cannot remember if Gaff was a 3rd down back at Stanford. Plus, who is to say White makes this team next yr? Boyce knows all about tht.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

And Gray.

 

[cdumler7]

Right. I mentioned the bonus to back your point.

Oh sorry didn't quite read that right. Thanks for backing up my point. Both of our teams have some big time decisions to make this off season. Going to be fun to see how it all plays out. Won't be quite the arms race that we saw last year between our two teams but still a fun one to see what talent is kept to take these teams to either the same level for you guys (Super Bowl Champs) or to the next level for us (wanting to be Super Bowl champs).

 

[ducky]

He's barely worth half what he wants.

What he is worth is irrelevant.

What he will get offered on the FA market is what matters. I don't see him getting a 5 year $25M deal. But a 3 year $12M is really likely.

You can talk about his production in the past all you want. But his lack of production is more a product of lack of opportunity due to NE philosophy.

Honestly if I am Vereen's agent and I am looking to max out his career earnings, there is no chance I let him sign with NE. Their rotation philosophy is a career earnings killer. That is why he is asking for way more than he will get offered on the open market now. Because signing in NE will hurt his future value.

 

[cdumler7]

What he is worth is irrelevant.

What he will get offered on the FA market is what matters. I don't see him getting a 5 year $25M deal. But a 3 year $12M is really likely.

You can talk about his production in the past all you want. But his lack of production is more a product of lack of opportunity due to NE philosophy.

Honestly if I am Vereen's agent and I am looking to max out his career earnings, there is no chance I let him sign with NE. Their rotation philosophy is a career earnings killer. That is why he is asking for way more than he will get offered on the open market now. Because signing in NE will hurt his future value.

I would also say that players on Super Bowl winning teams get overpaid all the time. Teams for some reason think that stealing a player away from a Super Bowl winner somehow will rub off on the rest of the team. I would say a Super Bowl ring bumps value of a player about 25%. Look at Joe Flacco getting paid like an elite quarterback after winning a Super Bowl. He isn't terrible but he is not worth as much as Aaron Rodgers. Look at the Ravens players after that Super Bowl and all they got paid. This past year for the Seahawks they lost some back up players that got paid like they were starters elsewhere in the market. So yeah it wouldn't surprise me to see Vereen get something like $4 million a year as some team will view him like a Darren Sproles type clone and see great value in that.

 

[BigKen]

The other thing that many teams don't realize when they sign a player like Vareen is that they don't have the same cast of p[layers that the Patriots have. If they can't use Vareen exactly like the Patriots, they won't get the production. I just finished watching the Broncos/Patriots game from last November. Blount wasn't having any success at all against the Broncos D. McDaniels tried to switch to vareen to have a faster RB and possibly get him to break a big run. On at least half of his runs from scrimmage he was stopped for a very small gain (Less than a yard) or a loss.

I think cdumler would agree, that if a team sign Julius Thomas to be a blocking TE like Gronkowski can be in the running game, it would be a mistake. He's not your typical blocking TE, he more of a wide receiver TE who can get downfield fast and out jump the defense for a high throw.

They're not specialists, but they have limitations and they have to be in the right situation in order to take advantage of their talents.

 

[cdumler7]

The other thing that many teams don't realize when they sign a player like Vareen is that they don't have the same cast of p[layers that the Patriots have. If they can't use Vareen exactly like the Patriots, they won't get the production. I just finished watching the Broncos/Patriots game from last November. Blount wasn't having any success at all against the Broncos D. McDaniels tried to switch to vareen to have a faster RB and possibly get him to break a big run. On at least half of his runs from scrimmage he was stopped for a very small gain (Less than a yard) or a loss.

I think cdumler would agree, that if a team sign Julius Thomas to be a blocking TE like Gronkowski can be in the running game, it would be a mistake. He's not your typical blocking TE, he more of a wide receiver TE who can get downfield fast and out jump the defense for a high throw.

They're not specialists, but they have limitations and they have to be in the right situation in order to take advantage of their talents.

I would agree with this. Vereen is definitely a specialist but teams seem to be wanting more guys like this lately to add that extra weapon that teams have to game plan for even if it is only a handful of plays a game. Look at Darren Sproles in he is not a starter but he is a player that every team has to prepare for because he does things that many other RB's in the NFL can't do. He can't be an every down player just like Vareen better not be expected in that way but he does offer a unique skill set that very few other RB's can do at the level that Vareen can do.