trojanfan12

[TEB11]

Do you think I am overreacting now? Lakers are garbage and they have no one to blame except Baby Buss and Mitch Kupchak!

 

[trojanfan12]

Do you think I am overreacting now? Lakers are garbage and they have no one to blame except Baby Buss and Mitch Kupchak!

Yes, I do think you're overreacting, for a few reasons.

Did you forget the vetoed CP3 trade that everyone said would maintain the Lakers contender status? How is that on "Baby Buss" and Mitch?

Did you forget the Howard/Nash trade that was supposed to maintain contender status and how Nash was lost for 32 games that season and how Dwight spent the entire season fighting a bad back and pouting? Assuming Dwight was being truthful (which I doubt) when he said he'd still be here if they had brought back Phil, you can put them bringing back D'Antoni on Jim, but not the injuries, etc.

How are the 319 games missed due to injury last season and the fact that Nash and Randle are now out for the season, Nick Young is out until Thanksgiving and Xavier Henry being injured all pre-season as well as Ryan Kelly the fault of Jim Buss and Mitch?

Do you honestly think that if any of those things don't happen that the Lakers are in their current position?

Jeanie said that Mitch and Jim have a plan (beginning this year) that they are confident will have the Lakers back in contention in 3 years. Jim Buss has said that he will step down if it doesn't work. Jeanie seems like she's going to hold him to that. Not sure what else they are supposed to do at this point considering the current CBA and that the only true "difference makers" in this past season's FA period were never going anywhere other than where they ended up.

Also, Pau left for a chance to win another title before he retires (no issue with that). Had Lebron or 'Melo shocked the world and signed with the Lakers, they'd still have him too. He actually waited to see who they could get before leaving.

All of the above sets most franchises back 5-10 years, minimum. The Lakers say they are looking at a 3 year re-build. All things considered, I'll take it. But then again, I tend to be patient.

 

[TEB11]

The Lakers were a lottery pick team before all the injuries, period! The trade for Steve Nash was the worst in Laker history, the money they gave Kobe Bryant was just flat out stupid and letting Dwight Howard walk for nothing, well, you get my point. They will suck for a very long time with this group running the show. The Dr. is rolling over in his grave watching the way this franchise is being ran at the moment!

 

[trojanfan12]

The Lakers were a lottery pick team before all the injuries, period! The trade for Steve Nash was the worst in Laker history, the money they gave Kobe Bryant was just flat out stupid and letting Dwight Howard walk for nothing, well, you get my point. They will suck for a very long time with this group running the show. The Dr. is rolling over in his grave watching the way this franchise is being ran at the moment!

Way to ignore pretty much every single point I made. This indicates that you really have no interest in having a rational discussion. I'll try anyway.

Claiming the Steve Nash trade is the worst in Lakers history is pure hindsight and revisionist history. When the trade was made, he was coming off an All-Star season and had played 70+ games. He was said by most experts to be the key to making the whole thing work and why the Lakers would be contenders. Additionally, if the CP3 trade isn't vetoed, the Nash trade never happens. So again, that isn't the FO's fault.

The one mistake that can be traced directly back to the FO is retaining D'Antoni when they could have gotten Phil. Dwight was always going to be a risk/reward situation (so was Shaq when he came in on the same type of trade), Dwight decided that the lights were too bright in L.A., shit happens.

Out of the moves the Lakers have made/attempted, the only one that Dr. Buss may have done differently is that he MAY have brought Phil back instead of retaining D'Antoni. However, I'm not even sure he would have done that because he signed off on retaining D'Antoni. He wanted to bring "Showtime" back.

As I said, Jeanie seems likely to hold Jim to the "3 year plan". You can feel free to spend the season bitching and complaining about the state of the Lakers. For me, I'm going to give them the 3 years Jeanie mentioned. Until then, I intend to enjoy the season as much as possible and watch the development of young guys who may be around when the Lakers are contenders again. But then again, I try to be a positive person.

 

[trojanfan12]

Besides, the Lakers in the lottery again may not be so bad. After all, their 1st round pick is top 5 protected. If they continue to be as bad as they've looked, the Suns ain't getting that pick.

 

[lakersrule]

I wouldn't waste your time on this guy TF12.

 

[TEB11]

^^^^^ As I said after the Lakers got pummbled by the Dallas Mavericks in the WCF's, this team won't be very good for a very long time. Face the facts lakersrule, the Lakers are done ruling for a while. So you can say what you want. I lay it on the line, speak what is actually happening unlike most dreamers that root for this garbage team.

 

[TEB11]

.....and if you think the CP3 trade would have made a difference, ask the Clippers how that is working out for them. I laugh everytime I hear that excuse.

 

[trojanfan12]

.....and if you think the CP3 trade would have made a difference, ask the Clippers how that is working out for them. I laugh everytime I hear that excuse.

Yeah, because the Clips have just flat out sucked since they got him. Now I know you aren't to be taken seriously.

 

[bksballer89]

Clippers before CP 3> Clippers after CP 3

 

[trojanfan12]

Clippers before CP 3> Clippers after CP 3

Maybe he wasn't aware that we have a "Let's just make shit up" thread on the main board.

 

[bksballer89]

Making the lottery yearly>being a top 4 seed in the playoffs yearly

 

[trojanfan12]

Making the lottery yearly>being a top 4 seed in the playoffs yearly

 

[wildturkey]

Way to ignore pretty much every single point I made. This indicates that you really have no interest in having a rational discussion. I'll try anyway.

Claiming the Steve Nash trade is the worst in Lakers history is pure hindsight and revisionist history. When the trade was made, he was coming off an All-Star season and had played 70+ games. He was said by most experts to be the key to making the whole thing work and why the Lakers would be contenders. Additionally, if the CP3 trade isn't vetoed, the Nash trade never happens. So again, that isn't the FO's fault.

The one mistake that can be traced directly back to the FO is retaining D'Antoni when they could have gotten Phil. Dwight was always going to be a risk/reward situation (so was Shaq when he came in on the same type of trade), Dwight decided that the lights were too bright in L.A., shit happens.

Out of the moves the Lakers have made/attempted, the only one that Dr. Buss may have done differently is that he MAY have brought Phil back instead of retaining D'Antoni. However, I'm not even sure he would have done that because he signed off on retaining D'Antoni. He wanted to bring "Showtime" back.

As I said, Jeanie seems likely to hold Jim to the "3 year plan". You can feel free to spend the season bitching and complaining about the state of the Lakers. For me, I'm going to give them the 3 years Jeanie mentioned. Until then, I intend to enjoy the season as much as possible and watch the development of young guys who may be around when the Lakers are contenders again. But then again, I try to be a positive person.

I'm not even sure that's a mistake if you think about it. Not the D'Antoni thing, but getting Phil. Phil's demands were ridiculously high. Large salary, ability to take games off, and have front office decisions. The last one is a big deal. He basically wanted Jim Buss' role along with being coach. If you put yourself in Jim's shoes, you can easily see why he'd want to go in another direction. "My Dad grooms me for this spot, I've been running the team for years (Dr. Buss had final say) just fine, and now this guy wants my job too?". So I don't think it was a mistake not hiring Phil but they could have shown more respect to Phil with how the D'Antoni hire happened. Really the mistake was hiring Mike Brown to begin with.

The other mistake LA made is overpaying Kobe. That contract is stupid and they were bidding against themselves. No other team was going to pay Kobe that kind of cash. He'd have gotten 10 to 12 mil tops on the open market. LA could have still taken care of him by giving him 15 to 17 mil. That would have left a good chunk of cash for other FAs. They should have held firm. What's he gonna do, leave? He wasn't getting paid anywhere else.

But other than that, all the other stuff that's happened is circumstantial. They were good moves at the time that just didn't work out.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm not even sure that's a mistake if you think about it. Not the D'Antoni thing, but getting Phil. Phil's demands were ridiculously high. Large salary, ability to take games off, and have front office decisions. The last one is a big deal. He basically wanted Jim Buss' role along with being coach. If you put yourself in Jim's shoes, you can easily see why he'd want to go in another direction. "My Dad grooms me for this spot, I've been running the team for years (Dr. Buss had final say) just fine, and now this guy wants my job too?". So I don't think it was a mistake not hiring Phil but they could have shown more respect to Phil with how the D'Antoni hire happened. Really the mistake was hiring Mike Brown to begin with.

The other mistake LA made is overpaying Kobe. That contract is stupid and they were bidding against themselves. No other team was going to pay Kobe that kind of cash. He'd have gotten 10 to 12 mil tops on the open market. LA could have still taken care of him by giving him 15 to 17 mil. That would have left a good chunk of cash for other FAs. They should have held firm. What's he gonna do, leave? He wasn't getting paid anywhere else.

But other than that, all the other stuff that's happened is circumstantial. They were good moves at the time that just didn't work out.

Great point on the bolded, I hadn't even thought of it from Jim's view re: Phil basically wanting to do Jim's job too. Agree about the Mike Brown hire too. Not sure who was available that was better (can't remember), but it definitely turned out to be a mistake.

I agree re: Kobe. I thought $15-17 million was pretty spot on for him. I understand the Lakers offering him what they did and I understand him taking it, but from the way both the FO and Kobe described it, there wasn't much negotiation.

 

[bksballer89]

Lakers had interview Adelman & Shaw

 

[DJ]

.....and if you think the CP3 trade would have made a difference, ask the Clippers how that is working out for them. I laugh everytime I hear that excuse.

 

[trojanfan12]

Lakers had interview Adelman & Shaw

That's right, forgot about that. I understand them not hiring Shaw because of wanting to move away from the triangle, but to interview Adelman and still hire Brown was stupid.

 

[Black Adam]

That's right, forgot about that. I understand them not hiring Shaw because of wanting to move away from the triangle, but to interview Adelman and still hire Brown was stupid.

Still one of the most horrific hires in Lakers history...

 

[trojanfan12]

Still one of the most horrific hires in Lakers history...

Imo, it was worse than D'Antoni. At least with D'Antoni, I understood the logic. They had Nash and wanted a Showtime style offense.

But Brown when they could have had Adelman?