Training Camp Thread

[Crimsoncrew]

even when its in print and a fact u still try to say no its not. sometimes its better to admit when wrong because this looks a lot worse. I think u are a good poster on here and I agree with u a lot of the time and u give great insight but this is bad man. just move on from this.

What is in print and a fact? That he was cut this year? Okay. Re-signing him and giving him a raise was a bad idea. I never disputed that. I questioned it at the time that we did it. But that's not the conversation we're having.

 

[purguy12]

I don't know, maybe because he's a middle-of-the-pack starting QB who is wildly inconsistent, overly reliant on his physical talents, and hasn't come close to mastering the finer points of the position? He's inaccurate, he has a long, slow delivery, he has shoddy footwork, he has poor pocket presence, he doesn't see the field well, he lacks anticipation, he struggles with touch, he stares down his receivers, he makes dangerous throws into coverage, and lately he has played extremely poorly late in games. That's not an exhaustive list of his shortcomings, but it's a start. I can't see any legitimate fan of this team not being concerned - and frankly quite concerned - about him. And don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Colin. It was the right call to go to him over Alex, and he's had some real success since then. But he's got a LONG way to go to be the franchise QB I expect to see leading this team.

You just said yesterday we might cut him next year. If that's the case, how can you now say there's basically no reason to worry?

I agree with some of those statements but overall winning trumps all and thats what he does. Im just not worried yet. If we had a good Oline and he was playing bad then I would be really worried but right now its on the Oline and then Kap. again Im going to wait and see. I might be with you in 2-3 weeks saying damn we are in trouble Im worried about Kap. Right now Im not.

I do agree with you he needs to show something this year to make us really believe that he is a franchise QB. I just think at this point I'm more worried about the Oline and maybe that is why I'm not crazy worried about Kap. Im concentrating more on the Oline.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I agree with some of those statements but overall winning trumps all and thats what he does. Im just not worried yet. If we had a good Oline and he was playing bad then I would be really worried but right now its on the Oline and then Kap. again Im going to wait and see. I might be with you in 2-3 weeks saying damn we are in trouble Im worried about Kap. Right now Im not.

I do agree with you he needs to show something this year to make us really believe that he is a franchise QB. I just think at this point I'm more worried about the Oline and maybe that is why I'm not crazy worried about Kap. Im concentrating more on the Oline.

He was 8-8 last year. That was the first year the D wasn't dominant, and we needed the offense to pick up some slack.

The "winning" argument is the same one made for Russell Wilson. The problem is, Kap was winning when the team had a great D and run game, and wasn't paying a QB top dollar. That's not the case any more. Kap has to pick up the slack, great OL or not. We couldn't keep Iupati because we paid Kap. That's the simple reality now that he's gotten paid. If he can't continue to win without elite talent basically across the board, then he wasn't worth the contract, and we're in for a long couple years (optimistically).

 

[purguy12]

He was 8-8 last year. That was the first year the D wasn't dominant, and we needed the offense to pick up some slack.

The "winning" argument is the same one made for Russell Wilson. The problem is, Kap was winning when the team had a great D and run game, and wasn't paying a QB top dollar. That's not the case any more. Kap has to pick up the slack, great OL or not. We couldn't keep Iupati because we paid Kap. That's the simple reality now that he's gotten paid. If he can't continue to win without elite talent basically across the board, then he wasn't worth the contract, and we're in for a long couple years (optimistically).

ok that's 1 year what about the other 2 years. U need to look at the overall picture and not 1 bad year where we had the most injuries ever. Last year was not the norm. We have a Kap hater in the building. For you to mention 1 bad year over 2 great years is crazy. overall he still has a winning record in the regular season, playoffs and has already made it to a superbowl and 2 NFC championship games. Not many QB's in this league can say that. Is Kap perfect No way, but the guy isn't as bad as you think he is and maybe that is why u are worried and im not.

PLEASE STOP WITH THE D talk. Wilson has had one of the best D's of all time the last 2 years. we won those playoff games mostly because of Kap and where was that D in the Superbowl....... Kap(offense) is that one who almost made the greatest superbowl comeback in history. Don't get me wrong we have had a good D but in the playoffs the main reason for winning has been Kap.

This is where you are wrong again. We are not stuck with him. We can cut him at any time with out really being hurt from it. U must hate Kap a lot for making false statements like that. yes I like Kap but I know he has flaws and he needs to work on them but overall we can go by what he has done and he has done a great job OVERALL.

also u need to know he isn't going to be Brady, Rogers, Brees or any of those type of QBs. He will be his own kind of QB. He will be a Mix of Cam and Wilson. That's who he is. If you expect him to be like the others then u will be disappointed.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

ok that's 1 year what about the other 2 years. U need to look at the overall picture and not 1 bad year where we had the most injuries ever. Last year was not the norm. We have a Kap hater in the building. For you to mention 1 bad year over 2 great years is crazy. overall he still has a winning record in the regular season, playoffs and has already made it to a superbowl and 2 NFC championship games. Not many QB's in this league can say that. Is Kap perfect No way, but the guy isn't as bad as you think he is and maybe that is why u are worried and im not.

PLEASE STOP WITH THE D talk. Wilson has had one of the best D's of all time the last 2 years. we won those playoff games mostly because of Kap and where was that D in the Superbowl....... Kap(offense) is that one who almost made the greatest superbowl comeback in history. Don't get me wrong we have had a good D but in the playoffs the main reason for winning has been Kap.

This is where you are wrong again. We are not stuck with him. We can cut him at any time with out really being hurt from it. U must hate Kap a lot for making false statements like that. yes I like Kap but I know he has flaws and he needs to work on them but overall we can go by what he has done and he has done a great job OVERALL.

also u need to know he isn't going to be Brady, Rogers, Brees or any of those type of QBs. He will be his own kind of QB. He will be a Mix of Cam and Wilson. That's who he is. If you expect him to be like the others then u will be disappointed.

I'm a Kap hater, and yet you don't see any reason to be concerned about Kap? Okay.

I'm a pragmatist. There are a lot of things I like about Kap, but he's got A LOT of shortcomings. If he can't hone them, then we aren't going to be very good. You complain about injuries last year; the D was decimated with injuries. The offense was mostly healthy. We lost Anthony Davis for most of the year, and Kilgore for nine games. We lost our change-of-pace back. That's not a ton of injuries in the NFL.

Kap has played very well in the playoffs, except against Seattle. But please do not dismiss the D. That D held GB to 20 points at home in 2013, and held Carolina to 10 points at home. They held Seattle to 17 at home, most of it coming on one blown play (missed tackle of Lynch) and just a wing-and-a-prayer throw by Wilson to Baldwin in double coverage. It hasn't been as good as the Hawks' D, but our OL and receivers have been MUCH better than what Wilson works with.

I never said we are stuck with him. I said it's going to be a rough couple years if he doesn't improve. Last I checked, we don't have a viable replacement, so even if we cut Kap next year, we're going to have to find someone to step in and play well. That's not a one-year proposition.

Finally, in terms of the type of QB he is, his running ability is not going to last. If he can't improve as a passer - and dramatically - we're in trouble. He doesn't need to be Brady or Manning, but Wilson or Cam doesn't cut it IMO. He's got to be better than those guys have been to date.

 

[purguy12]

I'm a Kap hater, and yet you don't see any reason to be concerned about Kap? Okay.

I'm a pragmatist. There are a lot of things I like about Kap, but he's got A LOT of shortcomings. If he can't hone them, then we aren't going to be very good. You complain about injuries last year; the D was decimated with injuries. The offense was mostly healthy. We lost Anthony Davis for most of the year, and Kilgore for nine games. We lost our change-of-pace back. That's not a ton of injuries in the NFL.

Kap has played very well in the playoffs, except against Seattle. But please do not dismiss the D. That D held GB to 20 points at home in 2013, and held Carolina to 10 points at home. They held Seattle to 17 at home, most of it coming on one blown play (missed tackle of Lynch) and just a wing-and-a-prayer throw by Wilson to Baldwin in double coverage. It hasn't been as good as the Hawks' D, but our OL and receivers have been MUCH better than what Wilson works with.

I never said we are stuck with him. I said it's going to be a rough couple years if he doesn't improve. Last I checked, we don't have a viable replacement, so even if we cut Kap next year, we're going to have to find someone to step in and play well. That's not a one-year proposition.

Finally, in terms of the type of QB he is, his running ability is not going to last. If he can't improve as a passer - and dramatically - we're in trouble. He doesn't need to be Brady or Manning, but Wilson or Cam doesn't cut it IMO. He's got to be better than those guys have been to date.

no concern right now. No Like I said im at a 1. lets see what today brings. I never said I wouldn't change my mind. Im talking about RIGHT now im ok from what I heard about Kap. I was not happy about yesterday but heard from 3 different writers that most of it was because of the oline getting killed. No QB did well. They had no time.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

no concern right now. No Like I said im at a 1. lets see what today brings. I never said I wouldn't change my mind. Im talking about RIGHT now im ok from what I heard about Kap. I was not happy about yesterday but heard from 3 different writers that most of it was because of the oline getting killed. No QB did well. They had no time.

I'm at a 6. But I guess if Blaine Gabbert and Dylan Thompson also struggled, we shouldn't hold it against Kap....

 

[Pattersonca65]

Kap has issues that he needs to work through and the oline can help by pass blocking better. That about sums it up, lol. Kap isn't a Manning or Brady type QB that is qoing to quickly process and throw the ball. He doesn'y have a quick release. He could use a little more help from the oline.

 

[Pattersonca65]

I'm at a 6. But I guess if Blaine Gabbert and Dylan Thompson also struggled, we shouldn't hold it against Kap....

Yes, but Gabbert and Thompson aren't starting. We'll see how he does as camp progresses,

 

[purguy12]

I'm at a 6. But I guess if Blaine Gabbert and Dylan Thompson also struggled, we shouldn't hold it against Kap....

exactly….. now if one of them are looking better then Kap then we can worry a little more. Right now we have an Oline issue.

 

[purguy12]

I agree we just have to wait and see. if Crim is at a 6 that is his concern. Im at a 1 maybe moving to a 2. My #1 concern is Oline. We have 2 different views and that is ok. Kap has a decent track record to go by the Oline does not. This is a new Oline.

 

[purguy12]

Kap has issues that he needs to work through and the oline can help by pass blocking better. That about sums it up, lol. Kap isn't a Manning or Brady type QB that is qoing to quickly process and throw the ball. He doesn'y have a quick release. He could use a little more help from the oline.

I can agree with this.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

If anyone goes I have read before that Vernon Davis can't/won't reach up to catch passes and after looking for that this past season I never saw him reach up and a couple of times it almost looked like he gave up on over thrown passes that he might have gotten a hand on and acted like he never had a chance to reach those passes. I don't claim to know for sure that he has a problem but any observations about this limitation if it exists would be appreciated.

VIDEO: 49ers QB Colin Kaepernick Targets TE Vernon Davis For 30-yard TD Score | NinerFans.com - A San Francisco 49ers Blog

Second video here has Davis going up and extending - not fully, but a ways - to catch a ball over his head. It doesn't look like he has any limitations in that area.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Yes, but Gabbert and Thompson aren't starting. We'll see how he does as camp progresses,

That was meant to be so dripping with sarcasm that it was literally submerged.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

exactly….. now if one of them are looking better then Kap then we can worry a little more. Right now we have an Oline issue.

If Gabbert or Thompson is looking better than Kap we can worry a little more???? Are you serious? If Blaine frickin' Gabbert is looking better than Kap, we've got SERIOUS issues.

 

[Pattersonca65]

That was meant to be so dripping with sarcasm that it was literally submerged.

LOL, it went over my head. Hey, I read from a blog somewhere that Gabbert looks pretty good when taking part in OTAs and/or TC. It is under game conditions he goes to hell, lol

 

[Crimsoncrew]

LOL, it went over my head. Hey, I read from a blog somewhere that Gabbert looks pretty good when taking part in OTAs and/or TC. It is under game conditions he goes to hell, lol

I'm actually higher on Gabbert than some. I think he can be a decent backup, but he hasn't ever done it to date. And word out of practices this year has been pretty grim.

 

[Pattersonca65]

I'm actually higher on Gabbert than some. I think he can be a decent backup, but he hasn't ever done it to date. And word out of practices this year has been pretty grim.

That's unfortunate. We are tied to him right now. Did you see the list of available FA offensive lineman? I only recognize Mathis? the guy from Philly. I wonder if there is any chance we take a look at them if camp struggles continue. Tomsula suggested they could but I am not sure how serious they really are.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Colin Kaepernick provides clarification on 49ers play-calling in the huddle - Niners Nation

Interesting that Harbaugh called the plays in the huddle at practice. Some or stating that by the QBs not calling the plays it hindered their ability to call plays in the game since they didn't practice. Not sure that is true. What do you think?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

That's unfortunate. We are tied to him right now. Did you see the list of available FA offensive lineman? I only recognize Mathis? the guy from Philly. I wonder if there is any chance we take a look at them if camp struggles continue. Tomsula suggested they could but I am not sure how serious they really are.

I'm looking at the list on Niners Nation right now. I recognize all of the OT names from drafts back in the day, but I'm not very up on what they've done recently. Gosder Cherilus might be worth a look. He was grossly overpaid by the Colts, and he wasn't particularly good there so far as I know, but for something close to the minimum, I'd take a chance on him given what else we've got. And Anthony Collins struggled last year, but he's played well in the past. I'm a bit skeptical of Jake Long, who has the most talent, but I think is done due to injury. I suppose the alternative could be to bring in an interior OL and shift Boone out to RT. I think the team wants us to be strong on at least one side, though.