2024 Training Camp stuff

[Cincyfan78]

The need to rush it is that I don't think the other guys that we have on the roster bring anything special to the table. I think Yoshi demonstrated some savvy last year in the red zone, but I still don't see him as a guy that creates separation or that will win a ton of one-on-one balls. Maybe I'll be wrong. I hope I am. I think Burton has playmaking talent that is rare and the sooner you figure out how to use him, the more dangerous this offense becomes. The dude didn't start playing football yesterday - He played on playoff teams for UGA and Bama. Coach him up and get him out there.

I think the point on Yoshi is that he's shown that all this off-season - and it's been written about pretty often. He went to work with a very renown WR coach - and it has paid off. Burrow has touched on it, Taylor, and Hoard as well as Dehner. They've all talked about his growth and his ability to play both inside and out - and his hold on that #3 spot.

You are right - he didn't just start playing yesterday - but guys who have had the same talent as Burton have come to the NFL and busted out...why? Lots of reasons, of course, but none because they weren't talented enough. Some of that is that the work needs to be there. Some of that is that it takes time to fully understand the offense. Regardless - there's no need to rush. They can pick and choose how/when to deploy him to get the most out of him.

And if Burton's talents were THAT rare - he would have gone 1st round...regardless of the college rumors/issues/troubles. He's got talent, for sure. But I don't think his talent, to this point, has shown that he's that rare of a guy who is going to go out there and just dominate...but then again...I could be wrong also...

So, we'll just wait and see - regardless of what happens - it's a good situation to be in. This room suddenly finds itself with a lot of depth - and good depth at that.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Myths within the Bengals organization.

- Guards don't matter
- Safeties don't matter
- Rookies are rarely ready to contribute
- The salary cap is a fixed reality
- Very few people in this world can hold for a field goal, so it's worth having a shitty punter as long as they can hold.
- Atheltic score doesn't matter for offensive line prospects.

True.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Myths within the Bengals organization.

- Guards don't matter
- Safeties don't matter
- Rookies are rarely ready to contribute
- The salary cap is a fixed reality
- Very few people in this world can hold for a field goal, so it's worth having a shitty punter as long as they can hold.
- Atheltic score doesn't matter for offensive line prospects.

I do think we've seen some changes in this with Katie/Troy more involved along with Duke and Zach.

They have Cappa and Volson at G...who have been good. I mean - the Bengals have slowly moved to getting guys...Karras, Cappa, Brown were all good signings. Carman didn't pan out, and Williams finally left via F/A - but signing Brown and drafting Mims are all positive moves in general to shoring up the OL.

As for G specifically - Cappa has been solid. Volson struggled last year to start, but was one of the better G's in the back half of the season last year. What will happen when contracts are up? We'll find out - but Cappa is nearing 30, and Kirkland has shown some ability on the inside. Maybe they draft another...we'll find out...but historically, I agree.

Maybe - if this is on letting Bates walk - I don't think it's that simple. Bates got paid. Bengals had Burrow, Higgins, and Chase staring at them, and the Safety market was booming. Decisions were made, and Hill was drafted the year before and played well at times at DB - so there was hope of him being able to transition to S. They signed the guy from LA and they drafted Battle who was one of the top rated Rookie S last year. It didn't work. This year, they brought in Stone who was an INT machine in Bmore's really good defense, and brought back Bell to help with the communication and learning of the defense. The Safety market has since vastly cooled - and while last years' defense certainly missed Bates and Bell - it hurt more that you had a quartet of guys who were in their 1st of 2nd season (but 1st starting) in that secondary. It was just too much youth at once. So, I don't think this statement is completely true. I think this was more situational than anything.

This I agree, and I think it goes for many NFL teams. On a team that has SB aspirations, it's one thing to have a rookie here or there...but to heavily bank on rookies to contribute at a high level on a winning team...that's asking a lot no matter who you are...and the NFL as a whole does this far too often, IMO.

I think we've seen the Salary cap stance change a bit with Katie/Troy and Duke. Burrow got done. Chase will get done. They've signed good players, kept their own good players, and still paid guys who needed to get paid - and kept a winning roster around Burrow pretty consistently. Not without bumps, but Burrow also hasn't been healthy in 2 of his 4 years...so, there is that.

I also agree historically with this - and I do think we saw a shift in this last draft. Mims 9.59; Jenkins 9, Burton 9.09, Johnson 9.28, and Lee 8.68. While the Bengals overall were ranked 24th, a big chunk of that is because All did not participate, and McKinley Jackson is a NT who will obviously have a less than ideal RAS as he's a pure NT.

If you took out the NT and All, the Bengals RAS score jumps from 7.711 to 8.234 which would be good for 11th in the draft....

And I have no idea what they are doing at Punter...it can't be that hard, can it? Just don't shank the ball every 3rd kick....I mean.....

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Article about Burton and struggles...

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[jbuck]

I'm not seeing any losses this year. What do you think?

 

[Cincyfan78]

Article about Burton and struggles...

MSN

www.msn.com

Yeah - I saw that and the comments...wasn't sure if it was NFL or college - but I think there is some pushing behind the scenes with Burton to get him to fully buy in and not just rely on his talent alone. That will only get him, and this offense, so far.

Taylor isn't going to just not play a guy "because"...as many things as I do take issue with Taylor - he doesn't seem like a guy who would just not play a talented WR for shits and giggles.

 

[cincygrad]

I don't think Burton will struggle with the issues that normally plague rookies. He is well beyond his years with his hands. He gets separation. He's played against elite competition in college. The issues that people are talking about have to do with focus.... I wonder if he is one of those guys that will focus and buy-in if he is given an important role on the team - Maybe needs to be counted on to be motivated. I have no idea..... But I do know that people said the same stuff about Randy Moss and Chad Johnson. Not that Burton is either of those guys, but my point is that he wouldn't be the first receiver that struggles with immaturity.

x.com

x.com

 

[Cincyfan78]

I don't think Burton will struggle with the issues that normally plague rookies. He is well beyond his years with his hands. He gets separation. He's played against elite competition in college. The issues that people are talking about have to do with focus.... I wonder if he is one of those guys that will focus and buy-in if he is given an important role on the team - Maybe needs to be counted on to be motivated. I have no idea..... But I do know that people said the same stuff about Randy Moss and Chad Johnson. Not that Burton is either of those guys, but my point is that he wouldn't be the first receiver that struggles with immaturity.

x.com

x.com

All a part of the issue(s) I alluded to with talented guys not sticking in the NFL. It's usually not about the talent...it's about the other things that matter.

In this case - if he's not fully bought in. Fully focused. Doesn't have that trust with Burrow - you simply cannot put him out there.

He's got to earn it. Nothing wrong with that. On this team - there are guys who will perform. So, it's not like there is some open slot that he's filling. Those slots are going to guys who have put in the work, bought in, and have that trust. Burrow will get more out of them over the long haul than someone who doesn't do those things. Sure, guys like Burton may have the splash plays here and there, and some good games...but the consistency will always lack.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Let's also keep this in perspective - while Burton had some fantastic plays - the majority of those came against guys who are not in his league and will likely be bagging your groceries later this week.

That's not to say he can't get it done against better talent - but I think it's fair to at least point out that he's still needing to show what he can do against better competition and to get to that point, clearly there are some other things in his game, practice, and preparation routines that need to be cleaned up before he is given that chance.

 

[DanBengalfan]

burton has talent. I think the knock on him was taunting the other team and getting penalties. should fit right in the AFCN

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Let's also keep this in perspective - while Burton had some fantastic plays - the majority of those came against guys who are not in his league and will likely be bagging your groceries later this week.

That's not to say he can't get it done against better talent - but I think it's fair to at least point out that he's still needing to show what he can do against better competition and to get to that point, clearly there are some other things in his game, practice, and preparation routines that need to be cleaned up before he is given that chance.

Keep in mind, he also didn't have a Burrow throwing to him. He had a Woodside and Lombardi throwing to him. I think the talent is fully there and capable of playing with the 1's. I just think based on this article, he is needing to get his routes, work ethic and ability to change on the fly when Burrow changes routes based on coverage's, or plays.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Keep in mind, he also didn't have a Burrow throwing to him. He had a Woodside and Lombardi throwing to him. I think the talent is fully there and capable of playing with the 1's. I just think based on this article, he is needing to get his routes, work ethic and ability to change on the fly when Burrow changes routes based on coverage's, or plays.

Fair point - he did not. But, I think it's easier for someone to throw it up and for him to be better and come away with the ball than the reverse...because Burrow might put it in a specific spot and if he's not focused, or not nuanced enough in his routes - he won't come away with the ball.

But regardless - we can all agree - the kid has talent. He's going to see the field at some point and he's going to help this team win games. There's no reason to rush him - and I think picking and choosing when to deploy him actually makes this offense a lot better. At least, until he can show that he can be a full-time guy (routes, coverages, focus, etc...).

 

[Cincyfan78]

Lamb - 4 years. $136M.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Lamb - 4 years. $136M.

That is the same deal that Chase should get, a million a year under Jefferson.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

That is the same deal that Chase should get, a million a year under Jefferson.

If Chase signs a deal like that, or no higher than Jefferson, I am back on the Chase bandwagon. A deal in alignment of the market and his value within the league.

 

[Cincyfan78]

If Chase signs a deal like that, or no higher than Jefferson, I am back on the Chase bandwagon. A deal in alignment of the market and his value within the league.

What if they play out this year on the current deal and get into the off-season for '25. Then he gets a $35/$36M deal....would that still be ok? Just curious.

 

[DanBengalfan]

if he plays like it's a contract year, and higgins plays like it's a contract year, f'n SuperBowl

 

[cincygrad]

Lamb - 4 years. $136M.

If I'm the Bengals, I do a similar deal with Chase as soon as possible. Theoretically, it will save money in the future. I say theoretically because these deals have so much of their guaranteed money early in the contract. It's hard for me to believe that all the guys signing these deals are going to be happy playing them out. After 2 or 3 years, they'll be right back to holding in. I suppose that's a problem for another day. Get'r done, Bengals.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Chase has demanded an infinity gauntlet, complete with infinity stones. also, this is over and above any salary figures discussed.
also, he demands to be referred to as Lord, as in Lord Chase.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

What if they play out this year on the current deal and get into the off-season for '25. Then he gets a $35/$36M deal....would that still be ok? Just curious.

No more than Jefferson, and his 5th year stays in tact...don't care about the franchise year because that doesn't count unless we had to exercise it. If we get to the offseason, and he is the #1 WR in the NFL this year with his production, then I can deal with $36 million IF he is able to produce as the best WR in the league.