2024 Training Camp stuff

[alf8478]

 

[CrashDavisSports]

All good in the hood bro. It is one thing to want to reset the market, it is a whole other story to shatter the market. Chase's demands are ridiculous and I for one hope we don't give in. Besides, I would rather lose two years of Chase to have 3 more years of Chase, Higgins and Burton together.

 

[Cincyfan78]

ok - back to our regularly scheduled training camp fodder...

- Burrow had his 1st full camp in 5 years. Despite the lack of pre-season reps in live game settings (which I loathe) - he has, by all reports, looked very sharp and appears to be in mid-season practice form. That's cause for a good feeling going into week 1 and 2 where the Bengals usually struggle.

- Higgins is healthy, Jones returned, Yoshi has looked like a guy who spent all off-season training for that #3 spot...and Chase can work himself back in at some point seamlessly as they also have Burton, Gesicki, Hudson, and All to compensate on the passing side of things.

- The OL looks like it's as healthy as it's going to get - backup spots aren't all that bad with Lee taking over the #2 C spot and Kirkland taking over the OT/OG swing spot. Ford will get the IOL backup spot, and Mims will return and likely work himself back into the starting rotation early on. I think we've seen the last of Hill and Carmen.

- Defensively - outside of the DT spot - even the backups have played very well as most of them have gotten extended reps against #1's both in Chi and Ind - and held their own. I think this defense is going to be much, much better than we saw last year. More experience in the secondary. Turner going into year 2, CTB into year 3, Hill battling for a starting spot has played supremely well - going into year 3...Battle has flashed, Stone was a solid pickup and the re-addition of Bell just helps the communication so much on that back end.

- Wilson and Pratt are already 2 of the better tandems in the NFL - but the depth at LB is also building. That's a nice thing to have.

- Rankins/Hill/Jenkins will make a nice rotation at DT and eventually they will add McKinley back into that mix. Until then they also have Tulele at backup NT and Carter as a rotational DT who can also split out to DE if needed (see below).

- Losing Murphy hurts at DE, but should be a good recovery and back in 4-5 weeks. As long as Hendrickson/Hubbard start out healthy - shouldn't be too bad. Ossai is healthy for the first time in 3 years, and Cedric Johnson has flashed this pre-season...so there is reason for hope at the DE spot with the reserves and Carter can lay some strong side DE if needed. I think there is a chase you could see some Jenkins at DE in some packages as well. The dude is a freak.

A lot of positives coming out of this camp - hopefully it translates in week 1 and week 2, especially...

 

[alf8478]

All good in the hood bro. It is one thing to want to reset the market, it is a whole other story to shatter the market. Chase's demands are ridiculous and I for one hope we don't give in. Besides, I would rather lose two years of Chase to have 3 more years of Chase, Higgins and Burton together.

Higgins is gone after the season. Everyone needs to come to terms with this.
Lets just enjoy this last season with him and hope he has a huge year, which should mean the team has a huge year.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Higgins is gone after the season. Everyone needs to come to terms with this.
Lets just enjoy this last season with him and hope he has a huge year, which should mean the team has a huge year.

I get that. I am okay with that too, if Chase wasn't a cock gobbler.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I get that. I am okay with that too, if Chase wasn't a cock gobbler.

 

[alf8478]

I get that. I am okay with that too, if Chase wasn't a cock gobbler.

They literally can't talk to Higgins now until the season is over, so whatever Chase wants/gets is not related.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

They literally can't talk to Higgins now until the season is over, so whatever Chase wants/gets is not related.

That's fine. Let's see how this thing plays out with Chase, and if he is still being a cock gobbler about it by end of year, we resign Higgins and force Chase to stick around another two years, 5th year option and one year of franchise tag. He doesn't want to touch the field until he has a new contract, good luck in retirement. He still has more money than 98% of the country.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Part of the Chase thing and contract setting in general is the knowledge that the cap is going to go up again probably another 20-25M.

It increased by nearly 25M last year, and there is similar expectation for next year....so, the cap is exploding - and the players are taking advantage to get as much as they can. I get the issue - but the NFL/cap situation is also a big partner in crime in this...

 

[Cincyfan78]

So for reference


2021 - 182M
2022 - 208M
2023 - 225M
2024 - 255M

I believe there is thought the NFL cap could push $280M which would be another roughly 25M increase. Even if it lands at 270-ish - that's a 20M increase....

The players see that the revenue is there and are ensuring they are getting their piece of the pie...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

So for reference


2021 - 182M
2022 - 208M
2023 - 225M
2024 - 255M

I believe there is thought the NFL cap could push $280M which would be another roughly 25M increase. Even if it lands at 270-ish - that's a 20M increase....

The players see that the revenue is there and are ensuring they are getting their piece of the pie...

So Chase thinks he should get most of that team cap increase? What an arrogant son of a bitch. You just made me hate Chase more. 56 guys on this team.

 

[alf8478]

So Chase thinks he should get most of that team cap increase? What an arrogant son of a bitch. You just made me hate Chase more. 56 guys on this team.

Show us where on the doll that Chase hurt you

 

[Cincyfan78]

So Chase thinks he should get most of that team cap increase? What an arrogant son of a bitch. You just made me hate Chase more. 56 guys on this team.

Nope - his cap hit would actually be LESS because the cap will continue to go up and up. Players know this so they go for a big contract when they can (if they can) knowing that their cap hit will decrease exponentially each year.

And remember contract number does not = Cap hit. The cap is fungible and the money in the NFL might as well be monopoly money....

I'll keep saying this because I believe it to be true - even though you don't admit it - you are getting too attached to the dollars and cents of this. This is exactly how the NFL works, has worked, and will work. If this pisses you off - then you can kiss the Bengals ever competing consistently for a SB goodbye. You simply have to pay good players.

Even Brady had a row of HOF guys and top tier WR's....

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Show us where on the doll that Chase hurt you

 

[Cincyfan78]

I mean - you are talking about if Chase should have the 2nd highest contract on the team?

Yes.

I mean - that's the short, easy, and most importantly - CORRECT answer...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Nope - his cap hit would actually be LESS because the cap will continue to go up and up. Players know this so they go for a big contract when they can (if they can) knowing that their cap hit will decrease exponentially each year.

And remember contract number does not = Cap hit. The cap is fungible and the money in the NFL might as well be monopoly money....

I'll keep saying this because I believe it to be true - even though you don't admit it - you are getting too attached to the dollars and cents of this. This is exactly how the NFL works, has worked, and will work. If this pisses you off - then you can kiss the Bengals ever competing consistently for a SB goodbye. You simply have to pay good players.

Even Brady had a row of HOF guys and top tier WR's....

Brady also took a contract that put him in the middle of the pack as far as highest paid QB's during his peak with New England to allow the team to sign other players around him. Brady was a terrible example.

I don't think Chase is worth $40 million, regardless of cap. He is a fucking WR, who are a dime a dozen. If he was a QB, a domainte DE like Myles or Watt, a shut down MLB like Ray Lewis or a top tier LT that keeps your RH QB clean and safe, that is another thing. Hard to find those guys. But if you can line up 3 high quality WR's with a top 5 QB, your offense will be just fine. One wrong step by Chase and he is out for the season, there goes 40 million and your whole fucking WR threat, because you chose to stick $40 million in one player at that position with a bunch of league minimum or rookie contracts to fill. Of course this is after Higgins leaves.

I put more stock in Burrow to get the most of his guys, than Chase to make a difference. Give me 3 top 50 WR's, it will cost less and you improved your chances to protect against one asset getting hurt and leaving you with a bottomless pit at the position for the season. The only position worth that kind of risk is the QB, because you only have one play on sunday. If your starting QB gets hurt, you are f'd, way of the NFL. But you don't have to let one injury to a single WR cripple your team for the season.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I mean - you are talking about if Chase should have the 2nd highest contract on the team?

Yes.

I mean - that's the short, easy, and most importantly - CORRECT answer...

Cool, Tee Higgins is the second highest paid player on the team currently making 21.8 million. Let's make Chase #2 and make him head and shoulders the second highest on the team...he gets $25 million a year, making him #2 on the team. I agree.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Brady also took a contract that put him in the middle of the pack as far as highest paid QB's during his peak with New England to allow the team to sign other players around him. Brady was a terrible example.

I don't think Chase is worth $40 million, regardless of cap. He is a fucking WR, who are a dime a dozen. If he was a QB, a domainte DE like Myles or Watt, a shut down MLB like Ray Lewis or a top tier LT that keeps your RH QB clean and safe, that is another thing. Hard to find those guys. But if you can line up 3 high quality WR's with a top 5 QB, your offense will be just fine. One wrong step by Chase and he is out for the season, there goes 40 million and your whole fucking WR threat, because you chose to stick $40 million in one player at that position with a bunch of league minimum or rookie contracts to fill. Of course this is after Higgins leaves.

I put more stock in Burrow to get the most of his guys, than Chase to make a difference. Give me 3 top 50 WR's, it will cost less and you improved your chances to protect against one asset getting hurt and leaving you with a bottomless pit at the position for the season. The only position worth that kind of risk is the QB, because you only have one play on sunday. If your starting QB gets hurt, you are f'd, way of the NFL. But you don't have to let one injury to a single WR cripple your team for the season.

Go back and watch the KC game(s)....

Dude destroyed them. There is a reason he's top 5.

You don't think he is - that's fine...you'll be the only one, or in a very small minority...

Higgins is, at best, the #21+ #1 WR....you are willing to pay him $30M....Is it really that far of a stretch to see where a top 5 WR would get $40M?

Your own arguments don't support your view on Chase.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Cool, Tee Higgins is the second highest paid player on the team currently making 21.8 million. Let's make Chase #2 and make him head and shoulders the second highest on the team...he gets $25 million a year, making him #2 on the team. I agree.

Bengals offered Higgins in the 20's and he flatly turned it down...

Your own arguments do not support your talking points....your disdain for the #40 and Chase are clouding your judgement...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Go back and watch the KC game(s)....

Dude destroyed them. There is a reason he's top 5.

You don't think he is - that's fine...you'll be the only one, or in a very small minority...

Higgins is, at best, the #21+ #1 WR....you are willing to pay him $30M....Is it really that far of a stretch to see where a top 5 WR would get $40M?

Your own arguments don't support your view on Chase.

Who says Higgins was even wanting $30 million? He just wanted a long term contract. There are only a handful of players even making $30 million. I bet Higgins would have taken $25 million for 4 years with 75% guaranteed. You keep assuming Higgins wanted $30 million, but there is no leak or record of that because the second the Bengals got Chase's asking price, they immediately shut down any kind of plans to talk to Higgins.