2024 Training Camp stuff

[CrashDavisSports]

I think the role of a college coach has as much to do with talent identification and recruitment as it does with Xs and Os.... The talent discrepancy between the top programs and everyone else is just crazy. This is different in the NFL, where talent is not all that different between a playoff team and a 7 win team. It's funny because I used to think of College Football as the place to go to watch a wide variety of schemes and approaches to the game.... Now, it seems to me that most colleges are running the same crap as every other college team and the innovation is actually occurring in the pro game. And maybe it's because of transfer rules, but you also don't see the same player development over the years that you used to see in college football.

This gives me a good chance to take a cheap shot at Ohio State..... This is what their problem is - Ryan Day sure can recruit the fuck out of some blue-chip talent. But he does nothing with them. How that guy couldn't win a title with Stroud and the many blue-chip receivers he has coached speaks to the fact that he is a talent collector and not a coach.

I love Ohio State, but I agree. Day has not maximized the talent that program has put on the field the last several years.

 

[cincygrad]

To your point...

The Bengals finished dead last in the AFCN last season...and had 9 wins. A historically difficult schedule. A healthy Burrow for 5 games (maybe). A defense that was decimated by injuries and youth, and one of the worst under Lou.

They were a win away from the playoffs.....

The gap between talent at the NFL level is marginal. Sure, you have the few who are the greats. The tier 1s...but the vast majority of 53 man rosters are filled with guys who are all within reach of one another.

I think this also comes out in the silly NFL top 100 ever year. Even the players don't have a great sense of who is good. Sure, we can all agree on guys that are probably in the top 10 or 20 of the NFL, but after the superstars it is mostly situationally dependent and it varies from season to season.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Rumor is - Chase is looking for 4 years - $160M - $120 Guaranteed.

I'm fine with all of that, but that starts as an extension next year...ain't no way I'm paying him 4 years with this year being included...the team can, technically, already keep him for 4 years and likely pay much, much less than that contract.

If he wants that extension - I give it to him but it starts next year. If he's willing to go 5 years - I'll give him a bump this year to bring him up some - but again, I'm not setting the precedent of paying a guy a full year before his 5th year option runs out. Hendrickson basically just did the same thing in the off-season - and we know how that went.

Love Chase - He's a top 5 WR - but he's also got to play the business game, and sometimes that means you end up on the short end of the stick.

 

[Cincyfan78]

This list is laughable...

Look, I take issues with some of what Taylor does, but the fact remains - He's taken the Bengals to 2 AFC Title games, 1 SB, and the Bengals are consistently thought of as the biggest threat to the Chiefs in the AFC. At worst, this staff should be top 10...and to be behind the Browns who have done exactly nothing (1 playoff game, loss) is down right stupid.

As an aside - they mention Burrow wearing a glove as an 'Issue' to watch - but he's been doing it for 2 years...man...I remember when ESPN was actually good at covering sports...

Which NFL teams have the best coaching staffs? We ranked them from 1 to 32

We used past performance, in-game decision-making and more to rank NFL coaching staffs from best to worst heading into the season.

www.espn.com

(For those who can't read it: Bengals 14th)

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Rumor is - Chase is looking for 4 years - $160M - $120 Guaranteed.

I'm fine with all of that, but that starts as an extension next year...ain't no way I'm paying him 4 years with this year being included...the team can, technically, already keep him for 4 years and likely pay much, much less than that contract.

If he wants that extension - I give it to him but it starts next year. If he's willing to go 5 years - I'll give him a bump this year to bring him up some - but again, I'm not setting the precedent of paying a guy a full year before his 5th year option runs out. Hendrickson basically just did the same thing in the off-season - and we know how that went.

Love Chase - He's a top 5 WR - but he's also got to play the business game, and sometimes that means you end up on the short end of the stick.

If this is the case, I say extend Higgins right now, pay Chase for next three years...4 and 5, and franchise tag and you let him walk. That is fucking nuts and NO WAY in hell I allow him to have $40 million a year.

Give Higgins 4 years / $100 million with $60 mill guaranteed. Hope Burton pans out and you can also draft a WR in the first round in next couple years. Fuck Chase if that is what he is asking for.

 

[Cincyfan78]

If this is the case, I say extend Higgins right now, pay Chase for next three years...4 and 5, and franchise tag and you let him walk. That is fucking nuts and No way in hell I allow him to have $40 million a year.

I'd give him 40 a year - starting next year....that's only $20 more than the cap/contract is going to end up being for his 5th year contract.

But I'm not paying him for this year - 2 years out before his contract is up...that's bad business. Chase should know this.

That's a really bad precedent to set, and especially after Hendrickson tried to do the same thing and it didn't work.

Chase has very little leverage here...and the WR room is deep enough now that, while missing Chase hurts, you can get by with Higgins, Yoshi, Jones, Burton and using Gesicki, All, Hudson all in split out roles at TE...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'd give him 40 a year - starting next year....that's only $20 more than the cap/contract is going to end up being for his 5th year contract.

But I'm not paying him for this year - 2 years out before his contract is up...that's bad business. Chase should know this.

That's a really bad precedent to set, and especially after Hendrickson tried to do the same thing and it didn't work.

Chase has very little leverage here...and the WR room is deep enough now that, while missing Chase hurts, you can get by with Higgins, Yoshi, Jones, Burton and using Gesicki, All, Hudson all in split out roles at TE...

I'll say it. Fuck Jamar Chase and his need for $40 million. Give me a guy that loves Cincinnati, was a fan of this team as a kid. Is a top 15-20 WR in this league at $15 million a year less. We own Chase for 3 more years, so he can pound fucking sand. Granted, I assuming $25 million a year for Higgins, but I think with 4 years $100 million and a ton guaranteed, he would be likely to resign. Chase has no leverage at all, so he can either retire or play for the amount of time we have control over him. This actually gives us Higgins, Chase and Burton for 3 years more together if Chase plays out his contract as the Bengals have right to it.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'll say it. Fuck Jamar Chase and his need for $40 million. Give me a guy that loves Cincinnati, was a fan of this team as a kid. Is a top 15-20 WR in this league at $15 million a year less. We own Chase for 3 more years, so he can pound fucking sand. Granted, I assuming $25 million a year for Higgins, but I think with 4 years $100 million and a ton guaranteed, he would be likely to resign. Chase has no leverage at all, so he can either retire or play for the amount of time we have control over him. This actually gives us Higgins, Chase and Burton for 3 years more together if Chase plays out his contract as the Bengals have right to it.

I mean - I get what you are saying...but.....

Chase is a top 5 WR...and the top 4 paid guys all make >$30M. Jefferson obviously at the top at $35M a year. The cap is going to go up both next year and the year after...so that isn't going to be an issue.

Higgins is a very fine #2...maybe one of the best - but he's not Chase. This is coming from someone, if you recall, who was vociferously against drafting Chase at the time because we had Higgins and a real need at TE. Higgins is a very good WR - but he's not top 5. Chase singlehanded changed those games against KC - that's what he can do. That's why he's top 5. Ultimately, that's why you pay him.

For me - the money is not the issue...for me the issue comes down to Chase needing to realize that there is zero chance the Bengals sign him with 2 years left on his deal (This year and Next). You figure with guys like Lamb and whomever else - are going to at least approach the $35M spot, if not get a notch above - and Chase then making $40 a year doesn't really equate to that much. It's the going rate for top tier WR's, unfortunately.

Maybe they work a deal (next year) where he comes down off that number and the give him a bit more guaranteed? No clue. Maybe they give him $150M, but guarantee a big more...I don't know...but the numbers/money aren't so completely out of whack, IMO, that this is the main issue. The issue for me is the timing.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I mean - I get what you are saying...but.....

Chase is a top 5 WR...and the top 4 paid guys all make >$30M. Jefferson obviously at the top at $35M a year. The cap is going to go up both next year and the year after...so that isn't going to be an issue.

Higgins is a very fine #2...maybe one of the best - but he's not Chase. This is coming from someone, if you recall, who was vociferously against drafting Chase at the time because we had Higgins and a real need at TE. Higgins is a very good WR - but he's not top 5. Chase singlehanded changed those games against KC - that's what he can do. That's why he's top 5. Ultimately, that's why you pay him.

For me - the money is not the issue...for me the issue comes down to Chase needing to realize that there is zero chance the Bengals sign him with 2 years left on his deal (This year and Next). You figure with guys like Lamb and whomever else - are going to at least approach the $35M spot, if not get a notch above - and Chase then making $40 a year doesn't really equate to that much. It's the going rate for top tier WR's, unfortunately.

Maybe they work a deal (next year) where he comes down off that number and the give him a bit more guaranteed? No clue. Maybe they give him $150M, but guarantee a big more...I don't know...but the numbers/money aren't so completely out of whack, IMO, that this is the main issue. The issue for me is the timing.

Jefferson set the market as the #1 WR in the NFL. Chase is top 5, which means he is not making as much as Jefferson and if he is, it is AT what Jefferson is making at most. I don't care how damn good Chase is, he can be Megatron and Rice rolled into one. He ain't getting $40 million. I would rather have Higgins. Besides, we own Chase for 3 more years whether his dumb fucking ass wants it or not. If he doesn't like it, fucking retire. So really, but not signing Chase to an extension, you have Chase, Higgins and Burton for 3 freaking years, making that our window instead of this year alone.

With Burrow throwing the football, you put above average guys on the outside and he can win. Chase can get doubled and taken out of a game at times. So you are spending $40 million for a guy to be a decoy. I would rather spread the wealth out and force the defense to play man on our above average WR's.

 

[cincygrad]

Rumor is - Chase is looking for 4 years - $160M - $120 Guaranteed.

I'm fine with all of that, but that starts as an extension next year...ain't no way I'm paying him 4 years with this year being included...the team can, technically, already keep him for 4 years and likely pay much, much less than that contract.

If he wants that extension - I give it to him but it starts next year. If he's willing to go 5 years - I'll give him a bump this year to bring him up some - but again, I'm not setting the precedent of paying a guy a full year before his 5th year option runs out. Hendrickson basically just did the same thing in the off-season - and we know how that went.

Love Chase - He's a top 5 WR - but he's also got to play the business game, and sometimes that means you end up on the short end of the stick.

I can't get a good handle on this report. The team already excercised his 5th year extension.... So, if Chase is looking for a 4 year extension, couldn't that be interpreted as playing out the first 5 with another 4 tacked on and an additional 160M? In that case, it woudl be a 6 year deal, starting now, for around 185 million. That is slightly more than 30 million per year on average which would be right in range with the market. If this is what he is looking for, I would do it.

Now, if he is looking for 40 million per year, which would shatter the market, while he isn't the best receiver in the NFL and he has two years left on his deal..... Well, that's just crazy.

But here's the thing..... The report has been attributed to Local 12's Richard Skinner.... This smells of a report leaked by the team. Chase and his representation aren't leaking to a local cincinnati station. I feel like the Bengals leaked this story to make Chase look unreasonable.

 

[cincygrad]

This list is laughable...

Look, I take issues with some of what Taylor does, but the fact remains - He's taken the Bengals to 2 AFC Title games, 1 SB, and the Bengals are consistently thought of as the biggest threat to the Chiefs in the AFC. At worst, this staff should be top 10...and to be behind the Browns who have done exactly nothing (1 playoff game, loss) is down right stupid.

As an aside - they mention Burrow wearing a glove as an 'Issue' to watch - but he's been doing it for 2 years...man...I remember when ESPN was actually good at covering sports...

Which NFL teams have the best coaching staffs? We ranked them from 1 to 32

We used past performance, in-game decision-making and more to rank NFL coaching staffs from best to worst heading into the season.

www.espn.com

(For those who can't read it: Bengals 14th)

I don't have ESPN plus, so I can't read this garbage. But, it's ridiculous to not include Taylor in the top 10. He and his staff particularly earned it last year when winning 9 games with an injured QB in the hardest schedule by DVOA ever recorded in the DVOA rated seasons.

As for the glove.... What exactly do people think the glove would do for an injury? Particularly if you are taking it off all the time. As mentioned, Burrow has done this sort of thing for years - He tries all sorts of stuff in practice. Total non-story.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I can't get a good handle on this report. The team already excercised his 5th year extension.... So, if Chase is looking for a 4 year extension, couldn't that be interpreted as playing out the first 5 with another 4 tacked on and an additional 160M? In that case, it woudl be a 6 year deal, starting now, for around 185 million. That is slightly more than 30 million per year on average which would be right in range with the market. If this is what he is looking for, I would do it.

Now, if he is looking for 40 million per year, which would shatter the market, while he isn't the best receiver in the NFL and he has two years left on his deal..... Well, that's just crazy.

But here's the thing..... The report has been attributed to Local 12's Richard Skinner.... This smells of a report leaked by the team. Chase and his representation aren't leaking to a local cincinnati station. I feel like the Bengals leaked this story to make Chase look unreasonable.

Right - there's precedent with teams buying out the 5th year....so that begins the new extension. That I'd be OK with. You give him $40M that year and the cost is only actually $20-something because they are already going to pay him close to $22M next year. That keeps him under contract through the '28 season.

But if he's wanting THIS year to be his 1st year of the 4 year extension - no way, no how.

As I've said, Trey Hendrickson already tried that this off-season (renegotiating with 2 years left) and got nowhere, as he should have.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Right - there's precedent with teams buying out the 5th year....so that begins the new extension. That I'd be OK with. You give him $40M that year and the cost is only actually $20-something because they are already going to pay him close to $22M next year. That keeps him under contract through the '28 season.

But if he's wanting THIS year to be his 1st year of the 4 year extension - no way, no how.

As I've said, Trey Hendrickson already tried that this off-season (renegotiating with 2 years left) and got nowhere, as he should have.

I'm on the official, "Don't give a fuck about Chase" train now.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'm on the official, "Don't give a fuck about Chase" train now.

You're going to be very sore once they extend him, aren't you....lol

 

[CrashDavisSports]

You're going to be very sore once they extend him, aren't you....lol

Yes, yes I will be. I will appreciate him as quality Brown's fans appreciate Watson.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yes, yes I will be. I will appreciate him as quality Brown's fans appreciate Watson.

I mean...you're comping a guy who wants $40M because he's a top 5 WR to a guy who raped a bunch of women...

Ok - you're done here....

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I mean...you're comping a guy who wants $40M because he's a top 5 WR to a guy who raped a bunch of women...

Ok - you're done here....

Raping women or the team. r*pe is r*pe, it shouldn't be allowed in any form.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Raping women or the team. r*pe is r*pe, it shouldn't be allowed in any form.

Bro - stop while you're behind...

We've gone around for years - and I think we have a mutual respect...your comp is way off, and frankly disturbing.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Bro - stop while you're behind...

We've gone around for years - and I think we have a mutual respect...your comp is way off, and frankly disturbing.

All good. No comp. I hate Jamar Chase, and I hope the Bengals don't resign him. Fair enough?

 

[Cincyfan78]

All good. No comp. I hate Jamar Chase, and I hope the Bengals don't resign him. Fair enough?

Fair - you are free to hate whomever you choose...

Just seems silly because this deal is going to get done. It may even get done with 2 years left on his deal - which I hate unless it includes this year as on "unofficial" 5th year...

And hell - it may not be $40M....maybe $38....Dunno....

In the end - I agree - not every player can get a contract and continue to re-set the market. On that we agree...but at the end of the day if that's what it takes to keep a top 5 guy....then I would do it. I love Higgins but if I'm willing to give him $30M....then I sure as heck can rationalize giving Chase 40.

We're straight - sometimes when we step out of line (and we all do at times) one of us has to reel the other back in....it's why this board functions so well, IMO....