Trade Rumors

[awaz]

Looks like Etem is making his NHL debut tonight but these guys dont seem like we could never recover from not having them and since we went to a cup with pronger already i think your hatred for pronger is peeking through again.

going to the cup isn't the goal.. and going in to the series, it was pretty much a forgone conclusion that the hawks were gunna win.. that team was much better than the flyers team.. and a pre-emptive strike on 'pronger took them that far'.. they wouldn't have gone very far if briere wasn't over 2 ppg in the playoffs and giroux was close to 2 ppg.. plus richards being good, and leighton getting 4.5 shutouts.. and you can also take out the 'already' because pronger is done.

that was a horrificly terrible trade, only matched by the absurd contract extension pronger was signed to. taking those 2 things in to account, pronger would have to be the second coming of bernie parent AND eric lindros to make up for what they flyers paid to get him

 

[lasgop8]

going to the cup isn't the goal.. and going in to the series, it was pretty much a forgone conclusion that the hawks were gunna win.. that team was much better than the flyers team.. and a pre-emptive strike on 'pronger took them that far'.. they wouldn't have gone very far if briere wasn't over 2 ppg in the playoffs and giroux was close to 2 ppg.. plus richards being good, and leighton getting 4.5 shutouts.. and you can also take out the 'already' because pronger is done.

that was a horrificly terrible trade, only matched by the absurd contract extension pronger was signed to. taking those 2 things in to account, pronger would have to be the second coming of bernie parent AND eric lindros to make up for what they flyers paid to get him

Fact is Pronger made everyone better and without him we wouldnt have went to the cup. If he didnt get hurt who knows and you say the goal isnt going to the cup we wouldnt be anywhere near the cup with these guys that were traded for him so i say better to get there and lose than to not go at all. You make it sound like the contract he signed was his fault all of that goes on Homer's shoulders not prongers not to mention he's on LTIR and it doesnt count against the cap so who cares about his contract now. Pronger > than having those 4 guys.

 

[awaz]

Fact is Pronger made everyone better and without him we wouldnt have went to the cup. If he didnt get hurt who knows and you say the goal isnt going to the cup we wouldnt be anywhere near the cup with these guys that were traded for him so i say better to get there and lose than to not go at all. You make it sound like the contract he signed was his fault all of that goes on Homer's shoulders not prongers not to mention he's on LTIR and it doesnt count against the cap so who cares about his contract now. Pronger > than having those 4 guys.

having pronger for 2+ seasons is better than having a proven 20 goal scorer, a top 4 dman, a future top 4 dman, and a future top 6 winger?

we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[dspice07]

having pronger for 2+ seasons is better than having a proven 20 goal scorer, a top 4 dman, a future top 4 dman, and a future top 6 winger?

we'll just have to agree to disagree.

not fair to say that, when they signed the extension he was not supposed to have a career ending injury.

 

[lasgop8]

having pronger for 2+ seasons is better than having a proven 20 goal scorer, a top 4 dman, a future top 4 dman, and a future top 6 winger?

we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I will disagree and heres why

we had Lupul mediocre player not bringing us to a cup
Sbisa wouldnt even be a top four on the defense we have today no less a team going to a cup
Both the other guys you simply cannot say a future top 4 dman and a top six forward they also could never make it 1 season in the pros

 

[dspice07]

I will disagree and heres why

we had Lupul mediocre player not bringing us to a cup
Sbisa wouldnt even be a top four on the defense we have today no less a team going to a cup
Both the other guys you simply cannot say a future top 4 dman and a top six forward they also could never make it 1 season in the pros

i think the extension was stupid but you cant completely rip the trade.

 

[lasgop8]

i think the extension was stupid but you cant completely rip the trade.

I am in total agreement with this the extension was a dumb move by homer and the trade wasnt as bad as it's being made out to be.

 

[awaz]

not fair to say that, when they signed the extension he was not supposed to have a career ending injury.

he was still 35 going in to that season, even if he doesn't suffer a career ending injury he's probably done after this year or next anyway.. timonen is a year younger, plays a more finesse game, and look how he's struggled this season

I will disagree and heres why

we had Lupul mediocre player not bringing us to a cup
Sbisa wouldnt even be a top four on the defense we have today no less a team going to a cup
Both the other guys you simply cannot say a future top 4 dman and a top six forward they also could never make it 1 season in the pros

ok they're 'likely' top 4 dmen/top 6 forward.. but the chances that 1 out of the 3 don't pan out is unlikely, let alone all 3. and they're far more likely to make a difference then pronger is at this point

i think the extension was stupid but you cant completely rip the trade.

at least we agree on the extension.. the trade i can understand being hesitant on, i suppose we still have to wait and see before we can truly judge

I am in total agreement with this the extension was a dumb move by homer and the trade wasnt as bad as it's being made out to be.

i can accept that opinion.. i still think it was a bad trade, but everyone on here knows how overrated i think pronger was as a flyer

 

[lasgop8]

he was still 35 going in to that season, even if he doesn't suffer a career ending injury he's probably done after this year or next anyway.. timonen is a year younger, plays a more finesse game, and look how he's struggled this season



ok they're 'likely' top 4 dmen/top 6 forward.. but the chances that 1 out of the 3 don't pan out is unlikely, let alone all 3. and they're far more likely to make a difference then pronger is at this point



at least we agree on the extension.. the trade i can understand being hesitant on, i suppose we still have to wait and see before we can truly judge



i can accept that opinion.. i still think it was a bad trade, but everyone on here knows how overrated i think pronger was as a flyer

Problem with this arguement is your going by "likely" and i'm going by what actually happened. We got Pronger and went to the cup.

 

[banditshcky11]

My thought is any time you trade 4 guys for 1(unless his name is Wayne Gretzky) you lose in the long run. An NHL franchise is a marathon not a sprint and it seems like Flyers management can't seem to understand that. A good team 1 year can bring you a cup, a nicely built/developed team can bring you a dynasty.

 

[jerseyjigroe]

Fact is Pronger made everyone better and without him we wouldnt have went to the cup. If he didnt get hurt who knows and you say the goal isnt going to the cup we wouldnt be anywhere near the cup with these guys that were traded for him so i say better to get there and lose than to not go at all. You make it sound like the contract he signed was his fault all of that goes on Homer's shoulders not prongers not to mention he's on LTIR and it doesnt count against the cap so who cares about his contract now. Pronger > than having those 4 guys.

 

[awaz]

Problem with this arguement is your going by "likely" and i'm going by what actually happened. We got Pronger and went to the cup.

no, i'm going by what actually happened and what could happen. we didn't win the cup, and we'd currently be closer to winning the cup if we didnt get pronger.

 

[jerseyjigroe]

My thought is any time you trade 4 guys for 1(unless his name is Wayne Gretzky) you lose in the long run. An NHL franchise is a marathon not a sprint and it seems like Flyers management can't seem to understand that. A good team 1 year can bring you a cup, a nicely built/developed team can bring you a dynasty.

When the last time there has been a legit dynasty in the NHL? The 80's with Edmonton? The closest I can think of are Detroit and NJ and while they had good runs I don't consider them dynasties. Only other real dynasties are even older than that (Islanders, Canadiens).

 

[jerseyjigroe]

no, i'm going by what actually happened and what could happen. we didn't win the cup, and we'd currently be closer to winning the cup if we didnt get pronger.

Pronger makes the team better at every facet of the game 5 on 5, pp, pk. I wish we had him right now.

 

[awaz]

i mean look where the team is right now.. how can they realistically improve? they have a single bullet in terms of trading a prospect (laughton).. they're very close to the cap, and will be next year even without timonen's contract due to the cap going down.. so you have to replace your #1 dman with no money, and 1 prospect. and that's just to break even.

the only way this team gets better is to be patient and hope schenn/couturier/laughton/gostisbehere all pan out or greatly improve.. i would feel much more comfortable if they had sbisa, etem, moore, and we'll just call lupul's spot $3.5 mil in cap space because i doubt he'd still be here anyway

edit: just take lupul out, kinda pointless to have him there that money would be used up haha

 

[awaz]

Pronger makes the team better at every fact of the game 5 on 5, pp, pk. I wish we had him right now.

oh i do too, doesn't mean he was worth 3 high-end prospects and a 20 goal scorer

 

[jerseyjigroe]

I'm confident Homer will make moves. They may not be blockbusters but he will do something. The Flyers are kind of screwed anyways...and by that I mean that every single teams wants Cooter/Schenn and I just don't see that happening.

 

[jerseyjigroe]

oh i do to, doesn't mean he was worth 3 high-end prospects and a 20 goal scorer

To me it does. I still like the trade. Not his fault he got hit in the head. That could've happened to anyone. It's not like he blew out a knee because of how old he was or something like that.

 

[lasgop8]

To me it does. I still like the trade. Not his fault he got hit in the head. That could've happened to anyone. It's not like he blew out a knee because of how old he was or something like that.

 

[awaz]

I'm confident Homer will make moves. They may not be blockbusters but he will do something. The Flyers are kind of screwed anyways...and by that I mean that every single teams wants Cooter/Schenn and I just don't see that happening.

not to be a debbie downer, but from what we've seen so far this year, and how last season went, and timonen's upcoming departure.. the flyers are a #1 dman, a top 4 dman, and a bonafide scorer away from really making a run. doing something, probably isn't enough

to actually improve, the flyers need couturier and schenn to step up. and if you want them to step up, you have to be patient.

To me it does. I still like the trade. Not his fault he got hit in the head. That could've happened to anyone. It's not like he blew out a knee because of how old he was or something like that.

the injury thing isn't an excuse for me.. he IS old, how many more seasons could you have expected him to play? and of those, how many would he actually been that glowing beacon of everything awesome that everyone says he was?

the best possible argument would be that the flyers could've won the cup last year had pronger been healthy. but they were up against the cap with him on LTIR. if you want to bring him back you have to pull 'upshall and a 2nd for carcillo' type moves to get under the cap. so bye to one of carle, jagr, or hartnell and good bye trading for grossmann. do last year's flyers plus pronger but minus grossmann+jagr/hartnell win the cup last year? not to mention the further damage to the prospect pool for paying someone to get rid of 5 mil in cap space