POLL Top 10 poll: #27 player ever

[msgkings322]

I see the argument, but there wasn’t an issue of Bonds and Mays splitting votes. Or Ruth and Gehrig. Bench and Yogi weren’t getting any attention at all until just the last couple rounds.

I think there's a LOT more to differentiate those pairs. Ruth is comparable to no one, he's #1 and no one is going to vote Gehrig over him. Bonds and Mays aren't paired like 'who is the best catcher ever' as there's really only 2 contenders for that.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Still a ton of Koufax over Kershaw votes which make no sense to me

It’s also weird that 2 players from the same franchise, and similar careers. But one player has such a larger legend value.

 

[msgkings322]

It’s also weird that 2 players from the same franchise, and similar careers. But one player has such a larger legend value.

Similar what now? Dude...Kershaw has almost literally twice as long a career, and better career numbers by a significant margin. Yes I know Koufax dominates in post season performance but not enough to make up for the rest.

 

[calsnowskier]

Similar what now? Dude...Kershaw has almost literally twice as long a career, and better career numbers by a significant margin. Yes I know Koufax dominates in post season performance but not enough to make up for the rest.

Yeah. That caused a record scratch reaction from me as well.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Similar what now? Dude...Kershaw has almost literally twice as long a career, and better career numbers by a significant margin. Yes I know Koufax dominates in post season performance but not enough to make up for the rest.

Similar does not mean equal. Also it was not the point of the post. Not sure why so defensive.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah. That caused a record scratch reaction from me as well.

Milk does that a lot lol

 

[msgkings322]

Similar does not mean equal. Also it was not the point of the post. Not sure why so defensive.

Similar also doesn’t mean Kershaw and Koufax’s careers. Defensive lol

 

[LHG]

WAR is very flawed as we have discussed. Post season leadership has to count, Yogi was a 10x WS winner, 18x all star, same OPS+ as Bench, higher OPS, one more MVP (we can play games with who 'shoulda' won that almost every year, although I do agree some years are worse than others).

I totally get Bench over Berra arguments though, to me it's a coin flip.

I will say that the fact that Berra has a significantly lower WAR than Bench, when they had very similar offensive numbers, is odd. I can only guess that Bench's defense was considered much better than Berra's.
So yeah, WAR is flawed. But regardless of what flawed stat you look at, their numbers just don't say they belong in the conversation for at least another 10 spots without giving huge leaps just because they are catchers. I still haven't heard a good reason why their offense compared to guys still on the board doesn't even tell half the story of their greatness.

 

[msgkings322]

I will say that the fact that Berra has a significantly lower WAR than Bench, when they had very similar offensive numbers, is odd. I can only guess that Bench's defense was considered much better than Berra's.
So yeah, WAR is flawed. But regardless of what flawed stat you look at, their numbers just don't say they belong in the conversation for at least another 10 spots without giving huge leaps just because they are catchers. I still haven't heard a good reason why their offense compared to guys still on the board doesn't even tell half the story of their greatness.

Here's what makes sense to me...

We have ways to compare players to each other over different eras with ERA+ and OPS+, right? How good were you that year compared to everyone around you that year? So when we compare Hank Aaron to Barry Bonds or whatever, we can connect over a distance, two different kinds of games/eras, who was better?

Catchers have an interesting twist...we know as fans of the sport that playing that position almost tautologically has to mean your offensive numbers will be subdued. But there's no Catcher BP (CBP+) stat that can adjust for POSITION and help us see who is better among the best at their positions. A guy like Bench clearly could have played outfield and had gaudier numbers, but him doing the smart thing and playing a position guaranteed to hurt his stats...this shouldn't count against him.\

So yeah, bonus points just for playing that position, raises them up on the list of the best. Also remember we're in the late 20s here, this is B+ level now, these catchers deserve to be in the mix IMO

 

[msgkings322]

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