POLL Top 10 poll: #13 player ever

[DHoey]

I am a data guy. Therefore I live in a binary world. What I believe to be true is immaterial. He never failed a test. And even the accusations against him only say he used while PEDs were not illegal in the game.

Pettitte? Fuck him. He cheated. Cano? Fuck him. He cheated. Manny? Fuck him. He cheated.

Bonds? Alter boy. Clemens? Helped old ladies cross the street. Palmeiro? He is currently in the process of getting sainted.

yeah....Petttite did but Clemens didn't......sure

 

[Clayton]

Jimmie Foxx at 4 votes?

I know WAR isnt everything but head to head on seasons with Pujols

Foxx has the best prime season
Pujols has the better 2nd best season
Pujols has the better 3rd best season
Pujols has the better 4th best season
Pujols has the better 5th best season
Pujols has the better 6th best season
Pujols has the better 7th best season
Pujols has the better 8th best season
Pujols has the better 9th best season
Pujols has the better 10th best season
Pujols has the better 11th best season
Pujols has the better 12th best season
Pujols has the better 13th best season
Foxx has the better 14th best season
Pujols has the better 15th best season
Pujols has the better 16th best season
Pujols has the better 17th best season
Pujols has the better 18th best season
Pujols has the better 19th best season

 

[calsnowskier]

yeah....Petttite did but Clemens didn't......sure

Where did I say that?

 

[calsnowskier]

Jimmie Foxx at 4 votes?

I know WAR isnt everything but head to head on seasons with Pujols

Foxx has the best prime season
Pujols has the better 2nd best season
Pujols has the better 3rd best season
Pujols has the better 4th best season
Pujols has the better 5th best season
Pujols has the better 6th best season
Pujols has the better 7th best season
Pujols has the better 8th best season
Pujols has the better 9th best season
Pujols has the better 10th best season
Pujols has the better 11th best season
Pujols has the better 12th best season
Pujols has the better 13th best season
Foxx has the better 14th best season
Pujols has the better 15th best season
Pujols has the better 16th best season
Pujols has the better 17th best season
Pujols has the better 18th best season
Pujols has the better 19th best season

Stump, baby! Stump!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Jimmie Foxx at 4 votes?

I know WAR isnt everything but head to head on seasons with Pujols

Foxx has the best prime season
Pujols has the better 2nd best season
Pujols has the better 3rd best season
Pujols has the better 4th best season
Pujols has the better 5th best season
Pujols has the better 6th best season
Pujols has the better 7th best season
Pujols has the better 8th best season
Pujols has the better 9th best season
Pujols has the better 10th best season
Pujols has the better 11th best season
Pujols has the better 12th best season
Pujols has the better 13th best season
Foxx has the better 14th best season
Pujols has the better 15th best season
Pujols has the better 16th best season
Pujols has the better 17th best season
Pujols has the better 18th best season
Pujols has the better 19th best season

again, nomination period is not a good indicator on who will win... players get nominated for many reasons... not always because people think they will win the next round...

Hell, lots of people i have nominated in previous rounds are available still, and i did not nominate them this round...

I also nominated Clemens last round, and did not this round(but that is for a different reason)...

but i think most will agree Pujols over Foxx

 

[Clayton]

Stump, baby! Stump!

Honestly, just by WAR comparison Pujols should be going shortly after Schmidt.

Pujols is surely going to get punished for that bloated contract the Angels gave him once he started declining. A time machine back then and I probably would've only expected Pujols to have a couple more good years. He had a fairly full career in STL.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Honestly, just by WAR comparison Pujols should be going shortly after Schmidt.

Pujols is surely going to get punished for that bloated contract the Angels gave him once he started declining. A time machine back then and I probably would've only expected Pujols to have a couple more good years. He had a fairly full career in STL.

I have pujols in the top 20... i think... i mean it really all depends on how pitchers go... but easily a top 5 available positional player available

 

[calsnowskier]

I have pujols in the top 20... i think... i mean it really all depends on how pitchers go... but easily a top 5 available positional player available

If we are just looking at bat, he is probably the #2 bat still on the board. But when you factor in D and baserunning, then I think Rickey and Foxx and Bench sneak into the conversation.

i am still weighing my last 2 picks, but put a gun to my head right now, I think I go with Schmidt as my 2nd pick (huge HR numbers in a dead ball era) and then maybe Maddux.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

If we are just looking at bat, he is probably the #2 bat still on the board. But when you factor in D and baserunning, then I think Rickey and Foxx and Bench sneak into the conversation.

i am still weighing my last 2 picks, but put a gun to my head right now, I think I go with Schmidt as my 2nd pick (huge HR numbers in a dead ball era) and then maybe Maddux.

I Know post season is a bit of a polarizing topic for creating an all time list.. But, Pujols definitely gets the bonus... where he was a post season stud...

absolute legend maker...

always surprised he is not even BIGGER legend in STL... i really do wonder why...

 

[Clayton]

If we are just looking at bat, he is probably the #2 bat still on the board. But when you factor in D and baserunning, then I think Rickey and Foxx and Bench sneak into the conversation.

Imo Pujols is clearly the #1 bat and its Schmidts defense that put him slightly over the top. Maybe ARod's D, too.

 

[Clayton]

always surprised he is not even BIGGER legend in STL... i really do wonder why...

I'll be stumping for him around pick 15-18 in terms of top players of all time. Thats BIG Legend status imo.

Pujols really feasted against the Cubs and Pirates IIRC. Some big moments against the Astros. He played well in the playoffs but got overshadows by things like the historic Red Sox and David Freese getting hot. Pujols hit the ball hard and that did get him into trouble late in his career with the shift. That is part of his legacy.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'll be stumping for him around pick 15-18 in terms of top players of all time. Thats BIG Legend status imo.

Pujols really feasted against the Cubs and Pirates IIRC. Some big moments against the Astros. He played well in the playoffs but got overshadows by things like the historic Red Sox and David Freese getting hot. Pujols hit the ball hard and that did get him into trouble late in his career with the shift. That is part of his legacy.

yea, but you were stumping Musial before we even let him win at 10...


never understood why a good old days legend who did not carry a team to win a WS(despite winning 3) is so significantly higher of a legend than Pujols...

 

[Clayton]

yea, but you were stumping Musial before we even let him win at 10...


never understood why a good old days legend who did not carry a team to win a WS(despite winning 3) is so significantly higher of a legend than Pujols...

I personally dont perceive any major gap here. You're talking about 10 player gap in the entire history of baseball.

 

[calsnowskier]

Imo Pujols is clearly the #1 bat and its Schmidts defense that put him slightly over the top. Maybe ARod's D, too.

Pujols played in a live ball era while Schmidt played in a dead ball era. Definately going firmly into the opinion area, but I think taking era into account puts Schmidt’s bat ahead of Pujols.

 

[Clayton]

Pujols played in a live ball era while Schmidt played in a dead ball era. Definately going firmly into the opinion area, but I think taking era into account puts Schmidt’s bat ahead of Pujols.

Just make sure you aren't factoring in era twice when you're taking things into account. Pujols was pretty consistently higher with Total Bases, OPS, and Batting Average during his good seasons.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Pujols played in a live ball era while Schmidt played in a dead ball era. Definately going firmly into the opinion area, but I think taking era into account puts Schmidt’s bat ahead of Pujols.

the WAR shares was a bad calculation, but i still like listing how many top 5, top 10 and bests in WAR per career...

Pujols has 5 seasons where he had the Best WAR, and 3 other top 5s

Schmidt had 2 seasons where he was best, but another 10 seasons of top 5, and one more season of top 10...

Arod, 5 seasons of best, 5 more seasons of top 5

 

[Cedrique]

The further we get into this the more I hate the fact that we're mixing hitters and pitchers together. It's really hard to compare their accomplishments. They played the same game but had completely different jobs. Like I don't know much about super heroes and Marvell and whatnot but do you make lists of the best characters that include Batman, Superman and the Joker or do you separate them out and talk about best super heroes and best villains?

 

[chappee11]

I am a data guy. Therefore I live in a binary world. What I believe to be true is immaterial. He never failed a test. And even the accusations against him only say he used while PEDs were not illegal in the game.

Pettitte? Fuck him. He cheated. Cano? Fuck him. He cheated. Manny? Fuck him. He cheated.

Bonds? Alter boy. Clemens? Helped old ladies cross the street. Palmeiro? He is currently in the process of getting sainted.

You are kind of all over the place here. Several things can be true at the same time:

1. We KNOW Clemens used. Brian McNamee documented his injecting schedule in great detail.
2. The things he used were not banned by MLB at the time(though illegal in general)
3. A data guy has to look at the 4 year gulf from 1993-1996 with some suspicion given how he pitched after that as he got older.

It’s all there in front of you. He was great before the PEDs, of course. But he was superhuman with the PEDs. Similar trajectory as Bonds, actually.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

The further we get into this the more I hate the fact that we're mixing hitters and pitchers together. It's really hard to compare their accomplishments. They played the same game but had completely different jobs. Like I don't know much about super heroes and Marvell and whatnot but do you make lists of the best characters that include Batman, Superman and the Joker or do you separate them out and talk about best super heroes and best villains?

We are doing an all time player list. Not an all time pitching or an all time batting

Your superhero example. Same thing it is all about what you are measuring. Is it heroes, villains, or just characters. If it is just characters then other people besides heroes and villains can make the list as well.

The problem with pitching and why it is not getting enough focus is that Roger Clemens is up there for serious discussion. But there is a bunch of other pitchers not to far away. So we are having trouble getting past Clemens.

Unlike with bonds, once we past Ted Williams, nobody was able to argue for the other guy.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

In fact. I think if we did a top pitchers list and a top position players list first, we would have had more pitchers picked already.