tOfficial "Tom Brady & the New England Patriots" Superthread

[PatsFan2003]

I wasn't aware that the Pats advanced right to the SB once the playoffs started. Most everyone else has to play other teams from their conference first.

THAT'S where the tape came in handy.

In all three years in which the Pats won titles, they played teams in the post season that they also played in the regular season.

In 2001 it was the Rams.

In 2003 it was the Colts.

In 2004 it was the Steelers.

Lose in the playoffs and you never make it to the SB to win it all.

Since the NFL took away the tapes, you have zero titles.

Everybody has film from previous games in the season. All of the games

 

[Midnightangel]

Everybody has film from previous games in the season. All of the games

But not of the coaches sending in signals, along with the situation.

That's the difference.

 

[KwitYerWhinin]

I cant imagine why we're still talking about the so called spygate..I guess flingin shit never gets old. That was then, this is now, cant we talk about whats really happening now ? there is a point of ridiculous here, we reached it years ago.

 

[PatsFan2003]

You sure?

One tape turned over by Walsh shows Patriots also stole offensive signals - NFL - ESPN

"From Day 1 of the Spygate saga in September, the controversy over New England's illicit videotaping practices has centered on the Patriots' efforts to steal their opponents' defensive signals. But the tapes delivered via FedEx to NFL headquarters in New York on Thursday morning also include evidence of an effort by New England to steal offensive signals, which would broaden the extent of the team's surveillance operation."

"[It] contains shots of Miami's offensive coaches signaling Miami's offensive players, followed by a shot from the end zone camera of Miami's offensive play, followed by a shot of Miami's offensive coaches signaling Miami's offensive players for the next play, then edited to be followed by a shot of the subsequent Miami offensive play," Levy said of the tape. "And that pattern repeats throughout the entire tape, with occasional cuts to the scoreboard."

Because Matt Walsh and the tapes he turned in disagreed with you.

Are most of the offensive plays communicated by radio?

 

[PatsFan2003]

But not of the coaches sending in signals, along with the situation.

That's the difference.

It's the plays that matter. It's pretty common practice for teams to change their signals during the year. Right?

 

[Midnightangel]

Are most of the offensive plays communicated by radio?

Today, yes. Back then, no.

If the tapes have the Pats filming the coaches sending in signals, that's what they were doing.

 

[Midnightangel]

It's the plays that matter. It's pretty common practice for teams to change their signals during the year. Right?

Does. Not. Matter.

Taping signals is against the rules - and the Pats did it.

It helped them win titles.

Without the tapes not only have they not won anymore, but their playoff wins have dropped from 83% down to 50%.

When the Pats have to play it straight, they struggle.

 

[KwitYerWhinin]

Does. Not. Matter.

Taping signals is against the rules - and the Pats did it.

It helped them win titles.

Without the tapes not only have they not won anymore, but their playoff wins have dropped from 83% down to 50%.

When the Pats have to play it straight, they struggle.

So, do you assume they are now "playing it straight" ?

 

[Midnightangel]

So, do you assume they are now "playing it straight" ?

About as straight as anyone else.

I assume that about all clubs, unless new evidence comes to light.

 

[KwitYerWhinin]

About as straight as anyone else.

I assume that about all clubs, unless new evidence comes to light.

alrighty then....done deal...next subject ?

 

[PatsFan2003]

Does. Not. Matter.

Taping signals is against the rules - and the Pats did it.

It helped them win titles.

Without the tapes not only have they not won anymore, but their playoff wins have dropped from 83% down to 50%.

When the Pats have to play it straight, they struggle.

There's no question the Patriots broke the rules. But on the other hand, their winning percentage increased. So maybe the effects of taping were over over-hyped?

A more legitimate way to examine the question is to compare the Patriots’ total record under Belichick before Spygate broke (including the offending Sept. 9, 2007, game against the Jets) to their record after. While the Patriots were taping opposing signals, they won 69.3 percent of their 127 games (including the playoffs), but since they ostensibly quit the practice, their winning percentage has been even higher — 75.6 percent — in 123 games. At a glance, it seems rule-bending didn’t add much of note to the Patriots’ chances of winning.

Here's some stats to chew on.

The Patriots? Opponents Won?t Let Spygate Die, But Did It Really Matter? | FiveThirtyEight

If you watch the games there are usually much better explanations for the success and failure of a game than the tape/no tape factor.

 

[HammerDown]

 

[Midnightangel]

There's no question the Patriots broke the rules. But on the other hand, their winning percentage increased. So maybe the effects of taping were over over-hyped?

Here's some stats to chew on.

The Patriots? Opponents Won?t Let Spygate Die, But Did It Really Matter? | FiveThirtyEight

If you watch the games there are usually much better explanations for the success and failure of a game than the tape/no tape factor.

Not in the post season, it didn't.

 

[KwitYerWhinin]

There's no question the Patriots broke the rules. But on the other hand, their winning percentage increased. So maybe the effects of taping were over over-hyped?

Here's some stats to chew on.

The Patriots? Opponents Won?t Let Spygate Die, But Did It Really Matter? | FiveThirtyEight

If you watch the games there are usually much better explanations for the success and failure of a game than the tape/no tape factor.

I guess its really pats fans that dont want the debate to die

 

[HammerDown]

BREAKING: New England Patriots Seek Aaron Hernandez Work Furlough

Rumor: After Urban Meyer restated his unwavering support of Aaron Hernandez' complete innocence of all charges, Robert Kraft has sought an unprecedented work furlough which will allow him to play home games.

"This shouldn't be seen as a sign of desperation in Foxboro" Kraft was overheard to say.

"Brady needs a receiver" has long been the cry of Patriots fans and it looks like he will be adding another one soon.

Sonny, thoughts?

 

[HammerDown]

"What's the guy even been convicted of?" - Tom Brady

 

[PatsFan2003]

Not in the post season, it didn't.

Look at the link on the Wyatt Earp effect.

But again there are other football explanations that better explain the changes in the Patriots playoff performance.

God knows the issue has been discussed among Patriot fans and to many it was the change to a more offensive minded team after the 2006 AFC championship loss

I think Belichick saw how the offense was being favored over the defense and basically decided to load up and has been favoring the offense for most of the last decade. The Patriots has not been near the defense they used to be for most of this period.

But they have certainly been successful in the regular season as a result. Ironically that was always a criticism by Patriots fans against the hated Manning Colts. Regular season wonders, playoff stumblers.

Because as we all know, in the playoffs "Defense wins championships"

(Which is one reason Pats Fans are excited this year because the defense looks like it has potential to be good)

Sad to say I think that has more validity

 

[HammerDown]

(Which is one reason Pats Fans are excited this year because the defense looks like it has potential to be good)

Wait a second. I thought your defense was already "elite" last season before adding the best corner to ever play the game and a draft and free agency signings that focused on improving defense? Now it's just "potential to be good?"

 

[PatsFan2003]

I guess its really pats fans that dont want the debate to die

When you're right, you're right.

I've finished with my 2 cents.

 

[PatsFan2003]

Wait a second. I thought your defense was already "elite" last season before adding the best corner to ever play the game and a draft and free agency signings that focused on improving defense? Now it's just "potential to be good?"

As long as Talib was healthy they were pretty good. That's not elite but they were pretty good. When he was out due to injury which was unfortunately pretty frequent their defense suffered. And also unfortunately it happened in the last two championship playoffs and the drop-off before and after were pretty significant.

As far as this season goes, clearly there's a difference between the pre-season and the regular season.

Which is why I said let's wait until the end of the season. I think the defense will be very good when all is said and done. Elite? It's still possible but clearly there's work to be done.