tofficial Cavs thread

[bksballer89]

Never draft a kid so early for defense only. We seen how that worked out with Hasheem Thabeet

 

[broncosmitty]

Im cool with the Cavs for several reasons.

1) they're the Cavs. They have a proven track record for being god awful.

2) biggest FA signing in Cavs history is/was a Cavs draft pick.

3) Bron Bron was destined to be a Cav

4) Cavs fans are actually Cavs fans. Not because they followed a superstar to root for his team. But because they already were a fan of the team the superstar came to.

5) Cleveland in the summer smells worse than Mexico.

 

[bksballer89]

Im cool with the Cavs for several reasons.

1) they're the Cavs. They have a proven track record for being god awful.

2) biggest FA signing in Cavs history is/was a Cavs draft pick.

3) Bron Bron was destined to be a Cav

4) Cavs fans are actually Cavs fans. Not because they followed a superstar to root for his team. But because they already were a fan of the team the superstar came to.

5) Cleveland in the summer smells worse than Mexico.

You do realize most of those Lebron fans who followed Lebron to Miami were Cavs fans right? Otherwise most other Heat fans were fans of the team before Lebron came here.

 

[broncosmitty]

You do realize most of those Lebron fans who followed Lebron to Miami were Cavs fans right? Otherwise most other Heat fans were fans of the team before Lebron came here.

No, I don't think that's how it was at all actually. I know shit tons of Cavs fans. The were Cavs fans when Laimbeer was there, Nance was there, Price, Ehlo, Bron, no Bron and still now with Bron again. They're Browns fans, that mostly hate the Ravens and don't go to Indians games.

What does this thread have to do with The Heat anyway? It's the Cavs thread.

 

[Heatles84]

i think you absolutely can if you have the best offense the league has seen in a decade or two

and have an All-NBA 1st team defender in LeBron-

basically-if LeBron has a good and motivated year and keys the defense like he did last time in Cleveland- and everyone buys in- the defense will be good

it comes down to how motivated LeBron is


and in the playoffs- can you get a stop when you need one- and can you get a bucket when you need one-

obviously the Cavs have at LEAST 2 guys in Irving and LeBron that can get a bucket at will when you need them-

Kyrie HAS the most game winners in the leaguesince he came into the league because you cant play him to drive- and you cant play him to shoot- because he can do both great- and he is clutch as shit-

LeBron is LeBron

as i said - who knows with Love- i havent watched him enoughto know if he can make that big shot at the end consistently



as for getting that stop

We know that LeBron can get that stop when he needs it- and that the Cavs defense shoudl be improved from last fairly significantly

Thompson should get similar minutes- Varejao should be slightly reduced- and Love will get Hawes and Zeller minutes- which might actually be a net GAIN defensively since Hawes is beyond atricious defensively



and i still have not heard one person acknolwedge that love and kyrie - just by virtue of not expending all their energy on offense should be better on defense this year- which is absolutely true


plus delledova and marion should be the equiavelnt of Jones and Miller- jones and miller are your ace shooters off the bench- while delle and marion should be your defenders

Again, Mike Brown is a shitty coach - but the man knew how to coach defense. I don't agree with you much, but you did nail it on the head when you said the Cavs didn't buy into him as a coach. But you don't know what you're going to get out of David Blatt.

Mike D'Antoni has some ridiculous offenses out in Phoenix with Amare and Nash, but how did that translate to the playoffs? You'll win alot of regular season games with offense, but defense is what wins titles and BK just proved it given the last several years. We can go even further as I have yet to see a team outside of the top 10 in total defense efficiency win the title.

 

[Heatles84]

Never draft a kid so early for defense only. We seen how that worked out with Hasheem Thabeet

I agree. If you're drafted in the top 5 in any draft whatsoever, you're expected to be at or around all-star level and be an overall productive player - not simply a solid defender.

 

[Hambombs]

DEF EFF rankings for the last 8 champions

2014 Spurs-4th
2013 Heat- 7th
2012 Heat- 4th
2011 Mavs- 7th
2010 Lakers-5th
2009 Lakers- 5th
2008 Celtics- 1st
2007 Spurs- 3rd

You gotta be a top 3-5 defense like the warriors

 

[Heatles84]

No, I don't think that's how it was at all actually. I know shit tons of Cavs fans. The were Cavs fans when Laimbeer was there, Nance was there, Price, Ehlo, Bron, no Bron and still now with Bron again. They're Browns fans, that mostly hate the Ravens and don't go to Indians games.

What does this thread have to do with The Heat anyway? It's the Cavs thread.

Bk brought up the Heat to poke a rather large hole in your logic.

 

[broncosmitty]

Bk brought up the Heat to poke a rather large hole in your logic.

Again, why bring up the Heat on this thread? If the intent of the OP was to clean up the Cavs, Cavs, Cavs on the Big Board, why bring the old news to the Cavs new thread?

(He's confusing Bron fans with Cavs fans. They may overlap, but aren't synonymous. Im neither, for future reference.)

 

[Heatles84]

Again, why bring up the Heat on this thread? If the intent of the OP was to clean up the Cavs, Cavs, Cavs on the Big Board, why bring the old news to the Cavs new thread?

(He's confusing Bron fans with Cavs fans. They may overlap, but aren't synonymous. Im neither, for future reference.)

That's all great, and this is the last time I will mention the Heat as well. But not all Cavs fans are the same. There are plenty that transitioned to being Heat fans which gave some of us in general a bad name and we had to adopt the Bandwagon moniker, even though it wasn't warranted. Just because you know a few die hards, doesn't mean they're all the same. Shit, there's plenty of bandwagon Lakers fans (outside of this board).

I'll say this for Russ though, as annoying as that fucker is with his constant ramblings, I'll give him this - that guy is a Cavs fan through and through, I won't question his team loyalty. Now Botslayer on the other hand.....

 

[broncosmitty]

That's all great, and this is the last time I will mention the Heat as well. But not all Cavs fans are the same. There are plenty that transitioned to being Heat fans which gave some of us in general a bad name and we had to adopt the Bandwagon moniker, even though it wasn't warranted. Just because you know a few die hards, doesn't mean they're all the same. Shit, there's plenty of bandwagon Lakers fans (outside of this board).

I'll say this for Russ though, as annoying as that fucker is with his constant ramblings, I'll give him this - that guy is a Cavs fan through and through, I won't question his team loyalty. Now Botslayer on the other hand.....

I don't consider Bron fans Heat fans or Cavs fans(this is not aimed at you btw). I consider them Bron fans. (Those bandwagoners are exactly why the rest of us had an issue with the overload of Miami fans.)There's nothing easy 'bout being a Cavs fan. You gotta be a serious man. Or woman. Or mentally retarded child to be a Cavs fan(see my #1 reason why Im cool with the Cavs.)

And if someone is any of the three, my hat goes off to them. Im happy they get some Euro ball to cheer for. I honestly am. BronBron and Love and to some extent Irvin are EuroBall prototypes. It's going to be an exciting, offense laden 2nd round exit.

Me saying Im cool with Cleveland, doesn't mean I think they're winning anything outside they're division this upcoming season. (I haven't been to a game in Cleveland with a majority crowd of Cleveland fans, in a very longggg time. In any sport. It's a hard city to love. So I respect those who do.)

 

[Logicallylethal]

Never draft a kid so early for defense only. We seen how that worked out with Hasheem Thabeet

Corey Brewer is another good example. Good athlete with a high IQ for defense...gets drafted 7th and is nothing more than role player/fringe starter

 

[Logicallylethal]

and other than Love and Kyrie - its not a bad defensive team

LeBron is a GREAT defender
Varejao - the other starter- is a very good defender- ESPECIALLY against the pick and roll which is basically very teams bread and butter
Waiters is a solid defender- he is built like a freaking bowling ball and is fast and can play D
Delledova- who looks like the primary backup PG (besides Waiters)- is a bulldog on D and in his 15 minutes a night should have a positive impact
Marion - if we get him which looks like it will happen- will play 20 minutes a night PRIMARILY because of his defensive ability
Haywood- is a solid defensive big if we can squeeze anything outta him
Thompson was drafted to rebound and play D- and this is a big year for him to keep improving

Miller and Jones suck ass at D- you are correc-t Allen sucks too if they get him----

Here's my assessment of the Cavs defense player by player

Lebron - 9/10 defender when he is motivated and turns on that second gear. 6/10 defender when he's not.

Verejao - 7/10 defender. Good at defending pick and rolls, love the hustle and effort, but is below average to barely adequate defending the post. Not a good shot blocker at all.

Love - 3/10 defender. Opponents shot 57 % against Love in the post last year. When Tyson Chandler, someone who is one dimensional offensively says "go at him, he can't play D"...you know you're bad on defense

Waiters - 4/10 defender. Not sure where you're getting Waiters as "solid on d." From what I've seen of him he gets beat more often than not. Also do a quick google search of "Dion Waiters Defense" and you'll get multiple articles pointing out his bad defense

Kyrie - 4/10 defender. With Kyrie I think it's more effort and accountability. Maybe with Lebron on the team yelling at him on the bench like he used to do with Rio then Kyrie will show more effort.

Delladova - 7/10 defender. I like him as a role player. He works hard and plays solid defense.

Miller - 6.5/10 defender. He''s most definitely not a terrible defender. You guys will like Miller's size and versatility, good rebounder, and also a smart rotational defender.

Marion - 6.5/10 defender. How much does he have left in the tank. We saw Shane Battier go from a regular defensive contributor to a liability very quickly. We'll see what Marion has left to offer

Haywood - 6/10 defender. He's a big body and an above average shot blocker for the limited minutes that he plays, but he's also slow footed and in today's NBA there are a lot of teams that can expose that if he's on the floor.

Thompson - ?/10 defender. Haven't watched him closely enough to assess him defensively

Jones/Ray - 3/10 defender. James Jones has never played defense in his life and Ray at this age gets blown by way too often.

 

[LTCF]

Please post everything cavs releated here.

Russy has hijacked the offseason thread with all his cavs garbage and I'm tired of it

We get it. It was alright for Cavs hating to dominate the FN site, but this one is pristine and everyone stays on topic and doesn't bash the Cavs any more. ROTFLMAO. My guess is, it was more fun bashing the Cavs when they stunk and now that they are likely the best team in the NBA it isn't so much fun bashing Russ and me any more.

 

[LTCF]

Here's my assessment of the Cavs defense player by player

Lebron - 9/10 defender when he is motivated and turns on that second gear. 6/10 defender when he's not.

Verejao - 7/10 defender. Good at defending pick and rolls, love the hustle and effort, but is below average to barely adequate defending the post. Not a good shot blocker at all.

Love - 3/10 defender. Opponents shot 57 % against Love in the post last year. When Tyson Chandler, someone who is one dimensional offensively says "go at him, he can't play D"...you know you're bad on defense

Waiters - 4/10 defender. Not sure where you're getting Waiters as "solid on d." From what I've seen of him he gets beat more often than not. Also do a quick google search of "Dion Waiters Defense" and you'll get multiple articles pointing out his bad defense

Kyrie - 4/10 defender. With Kyrie I think it's more effort and accountability. Maybe with Lebron on the team yelling at him on the bench like he used to do with Rio then Kyrie will show more effort.

Delladova - 7/10 defender. I like him as a role player. He works hard and plays solid defense.

Miller - 6.5/10 defender. He''s most definitely not a terrible defender. You guys will like Miller's size and versatility, good rebounder, and also a smart rotational defender.

Marion - 6.5/10 defender. How much does he have left in the tank. We saw Shane Battier go from a regular defensive contributor to a liability very quickly. We'll see what Marion has left to offer

Haywood - 6/10 defender. He's a big body and an above average shot blocker for the limited minutes that he plays, but he's also slow footed and in today's NBA there are a lot of teams that can expose that if he's on the floor.

Thompson - ?/10 defender. Haven't watched him closely enough to assess him defensively

Jones/Ray - 3/10 defender. James Jones has never played defense in his life and Ray at this age gets blown by way too often.

You guys make way too much out of defense. So you think Tim Duncan, Splitter, and Ginobili at their ages are defensive greats? The Cavs offense will be unstoppable. How far did playing great defense get the Bulls? All that did was make them an easy out come playoff time broken down from playing Thibs defense.

As for Love's defense, defense in the NBA is a team concept. Who else on that Minny team is a great help defender? (answer Nobody)

Waiters is also better than you think. The fact is young players by league unwritten rules (and poor officiating) are not allowed to play defense until they've been in the league for a few years.

 

[bksballer89]

We get it. It was alright for Cavs hating to dominate the FN site, but this one is pristine and everyone stays on topic and doesn't bash the Cavs any more. ROTFLMAO. My guess is, it was more fun bashing the Cavs when they stunk and now that they are likely the best team in the NBA it isn't so much fun bashing Russ and me any more.

The cavs were never spoken about on here last year

 

[trojanfan12]

i think you absolutely can if you have the best offense the league has seen in a decade or two

and have an All-NBA 1st team defender in LeBron-

basically-if LeBron has a good and motivated year and keys the defense like he did last time in Cleveland- and everyone buys in- the defense will be good

it comes down to how motivated LeBron is


and in the playoffs- can you get a stop when you need one- and can you get a bucket when you need one-

obviously the Cavs have at LEAST 2 guys in Irving and LeBron that can get a bucket at will when you need them-

Kyrie HAS the most game winners in the leaguesince he came into the league because you cant play him to drive- and you cant play him to shoot- because he can do both great- and he is clutch as shit-

LeBron is LeBron

as i said - who knows with Love- i havent watched him enoughto know if he can make that big shot at the end consistently



as for getting that stop

We know that LeBron can get that stop when he needs it- and that the Cavs defense shoudl be improved from last fairly significantly

Thompson should get similar minutes- Varejao should be slightly reduced- and Love will get Hawes and Zeller minutes- which might actually be a net GAIN defensively since Hawes is beyond atricious defensively



and i still have not heard one person acknolwedge that love and kyrie - just by virtue of not expending all their energy on offense should be better on defense this year- which is absolutely true


plus delledova and marion should be the equiavelnt of Jones and Miller- jones and miller are your ace shooters off the bench- while delle and marion should be your defenders

Didn't even need to read anything after the 1st sentence.

The ONLY team to win a title without being top 10 in defensive efficiency was the 2000-01 Lakers. The Nash/Stoudemire Suns had one of the greatest offenses in league history and couldn't even make the finals.

Please tell us all about how teams win titles with a less than top 10 defense.

 

[bksballer89]

I just think it's funny how he think their offense is going to be the best the league has seen in the last 10-20 years

 

[DJ Fieri]

mike brown is an ass clown

he seriously could not connect IN THE SLIGHTEST bit with the young players- its sad to say but the team just did not buy in-

they will do better with anyone else as long as they buy in-

but - as to your point- i am SURE the pace will be much faster-and that their defense could improve and you would stillsee avg. points per game go up - simply because of possessions-

but the all these bad defense for the Cavs always centers around Kyrie and Love- two guys that have been shouldered with rhe responsibility of CARRYING their teams offense- without that responsibility- they should be able to put more effort into their defense- its not bullshit that offensive players that carry the load put in the majority of their effort on one side of the floor falter a little on the other side- - and that should correct this year slightly- and their effort should be better KNOWING they are in it every game- and dont have that hopeless feeling 50 games in - which is bullshit to a certain extent- but also simply human nature


and other than Love and Kyrie - its not a bad defensive team

LeBron is a GREAT defender
Varejao - the other starter- is a very good defender- ESPECIALLY against the pick and roll which is basically very teams bread and butter
Waiters is a solid defender- he is built like a freaking bowling ball and is fast and can play D
Delledova- who looks like the primary backup PG (besides Waiters)- is a bulldog on D and in his 15 minutes a night should have a positive impact
Marion - if we get him which looks like it will happen- will play 20 minutes a night PRIMARILY because of his defensive ability
Haywood- is a solid defensive big if we can squeeze anything outta him
Thompson was drafted to rebound and play D- and this is a big year for him to keep improving

Miller and Jones suck ass at D- you are correc-t Allen sucks too if they get him----

but there is absolutely ZERO reason why the Cavs should not be in the upper half of defensive teams in the league----- they are not gonna SNIFF the top 5 obviously- but if they get a little lucky- and get the right guy here or there- or the right guys improve- they could be right around top 10- and with their offense - which is going to be COMPLETELYfreaking unstoppable- that should be fine

if they were the 12th ranked defense- which is completely within their grasp- and the 1st or 2nd or3rd best offense- whichi think is agiven- that is just fine

Yet....you defended them re-hiring him?

 

[DJ Fieri]

Again-

Loves 35 minutes on the floor will basically replace Spencer Hawes - who actually is a worse defender than Love - and Tyler zeller- who got his ass ripped-and a little bit of Bynum when he was here- and he was AWFUL when he was here--- thats gonna be a wash

LeBron is going to replace a combination of Miles/Deng/Gee- which is decent- but no where close to LeBron level- especially since Deng had a sore achillees and all kinds of other injuries that limited him last year

you guys HAVE to acknowledge that Kyrie and Love will benefit defensively from not having to carry the vast majority of the offense for their teams- if just a small bit- and Kyrie should get a jump defensively just from physically maturing and the natural progression of young guys getting better at D as they age

Thompson and Delledova- 2 young guys- that will probably play about 25 minutes for TT and 15 minutes for Delle....should improve defensively just from experience/aging/physically getting bigger

Marion will be a nice guy to come off the bench for 15-25 minutes a night (depending on matchups etc.) to play defense on 3s and stretch 4s- that should be a positive

Miller sucks at D- that is a net minus for sure- as does Jones- say they play a combined 15-22 minutes a night- hmm...who do they replace...id say mostly CJ Miles...thats a downgrade


add all that up and you have to admit its a net positive for the defense that is fairly signififcant- say they go from , what did u say? 18?- to say something like 11-14

thats fine with the offense they should have in my book-

Dellavedova is a D-Leaguer....He averaged 4.7ppg and 2.6apg in almost 18mpg on a bad team. That's not spare playing time, that's a lot. As your primary backup to Irving, that's a scary thought if and when Irving gets hurt. Not hating, just talking as an NBA fan.