tofficial Cavs thread

[bksballer89]

Please post everything cavs releated here.

Russy has hijacked the offseason thread with all his cavs garbage and I'm tired of it

 

[WiggyRuss]

Please post everything cavs releated here.

Russy has hijacked the offseason thread with all his cavs garbage and I'm tired of it

sorry bud

will try and limit it-

i apologize- i am getting to know the site and did not realize each team ahd one

will do better in the future- take note of the time of this post and from here on it out you will see a decided reduction in Cavs related postings on the general offseason thread

again,

I apologize- as there has been an inordinate amount of CAvs postings-


in my defense- you gotta say the offseason really has revolved around the Cavs between LeBron coming home, and the drawn out process of this Love trade-

and that doesnt even take into account the Miller, Jones signings, and the rumors about Allen and Marion.


but point received

 

[bksballer89]

I don't care if you post about the Cavs on the general board but I prefer you guys do it here and hopefully it can turn into the Heat haters thread we had on the board for the last 4 years.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't have a problem with discussing the Cavs on the general board. However, every post that is made about the Cavs and/or criticizes them, doesn't need to be responded to with a 5,000 word essay.


Seriously though, we understand that the Cavs have had a great off-season. If all they did was get Lebron, it was a great off-season. The potential addition of Love, just makes it better.


However, whether they get Love or end up standing pat, there are several question marks with this team that make them appear to not be as good as what the Heat put together with Lebron, D-Wade and Bosh.


The fact that the Heats big 3 was much better defensively while being close to equal offensively alone says that the Cavs have vulnerabilities that may very well cost them title.


Look at last seasons finals. That Heat team was better defensively than the Cavs are likely to be and the Spurs absolutely embarrassed them. Why would anyone think that a team that is worse on defense would somehow perform better?

 

[bksballer89]

Kevin Love is way better than Bosh (LMAO even though the numbers are nearly identical to Bosh pre-Lebron) and Kyrie is the next Chris Paul

Don't forget that even though their defense will be avg and their bench will be very old, the Cavs will be a run and gun offense

 

[Shanemansj13]

Don't worry Russ, I will make an official game thread. So we can interact during the game.

For now let us enjoy the offseason and hopefully our dream as Cavs' fans will come true.

 

[wildturkey]

So...how bout dem Lakers? Kobe > Lebron

 

[WiggyRuss]

I don't have a problem with discussing the Cavs on the general board. However, every post that is made about the Cavs and/or criticizes them, doesn't need to be responded to with a 5,000 word essay.


Seriously though, we understand that the Cavs have had a great off-season. If all they did was get Lebron, it was a great off-season. The potential addition of Love, just makes it better.


However, whether they get Love or end up standing pat, there are several question marks with this team that make them appear to not be as good as what the Heat put together with Lebron, D-Wade and Bosh.


The fact that the Heats big 3 was much better defensively while being close to equal offensively alone says that the Cavs have vulnerabilities that may very well cost them title.


Look at last seasons finals. That Heat team was better defensively than the Cavs are likely to be and the Spurs absolutely embarrassed them. Why would anyone think that a team that is worse on defense would somehow perform better?

While that may be true- i think KYrie and Love fit better-
as we saw with Wade- it was like dueling banjos- it was- i take this possession, you take the next---- with Kyrie- that should be different for a few reasons ithink
A. Kyrie can shoot from the outside- Wade's BEST 3 pt shooting year was 31%- Kyrie-esp. with the spacing LBJ brings should be AT least around 38- and prob more like 40+- that floor spacing is key with LeBron
B. Kyrie is PG- and can make plays- last year Kyrie had a lot more assists AND less turnovers then Wade- LeBron can play off the ball and expect to find the ball on the mark--- if Kyrie had teammates that could shot he would have had probably about somewhere around 7-7.5 APG instead of low 6's....

and as for Love- there might not be a better fit in the league- he is similar to CB but just better- Bosh immidiately moved outside which moved hisrebounds down- Love lived outside for the Twolves last yeara nd still got 12.5 rebounds per game- that is crazy when u think about it- plus Loves outlet passing will spring fastbreaks for the best fastbreak player in the league (LBJ) instead of the complete dearth of fastbreak playmaking on the Heat last year, absent Bron of course

and the Cavs should have a better 4,5, 6, 7, 8. 9 10- ---they are STILL trying to acquire a center- they tried Mozgov with the Jazz expiring Ks they got plus a pick- and are still trying to get another center ----but- just by what they have (say they get one out of marion and allen - when in reality they might get both
4. Varejao, 5. Waiters, 6. Thompson, 7. Miller, 8. Marion 9. Haywood 10. Delledova---- gotta admit thats a shit-ton better than anything Miami put out any of those years at the 4-10 spots

and lastly

the Cavs werent a bad defensive team last year----- they were 15th in the league in points allowed- and 12th in opposing field goal percentage----- and that was with playing a ton of minutes to really young guys like Bennett, Delledova, and also scrub ass Bynum-------

add LBJ to the 15th ranked scoring defense and 12th ranked opposing shooting percentage defense- and you have what should be a team right on the border of a top 10 defense.....especially with Varejao playing more minutes (i mean- last year he got screwed developing a blood clot after having a procedure where he shouldve been out 4-6 weeks and made it months), and Marion- and Delledova- a very solid defender at the guard position with a year experience under his belt

 

[WiggyRuss]

basically the Cavs were 15th in scoring defense last year and 12th in shooting defense

this was with Andy sitting out a ton of the season due to a blood clot complication from a procedure that should have kept him out about 5 weeks- and ended up keeping him out 3 months

Delledova was a rookie who rarely played early on- but started playing more as he went and really showed an ability to play solid defense on the perimeter- a year under his belt and more regular minutes should help the D

LBJ OBVIOUSLY should help the D- he will be replacing Deng- who was battling injuries the whole year once we got him, and Alonzo Gee/Cj Miles- mediocre at best- replace those guys with LBJ- you OBVIOUSLy will have a significant uptick

adding Marion- a very good perimeter defender to play against 3's and some 4's should help out a lot

TT developing into a better defender should help

Hawes was an awful defender who got big minutes once we traded for him- as was Zeller- replacing them with Love MIGHT actually be an upgrade defensively- which is really really sad to say


so- if they were 15th in scoring and 12 in shooting defense- i expect decent to small upticks in both of those this year- which should put them right around 10th in the league- plenty adequate



is there anything i wrote above you just do not agree with or does not make sense? I think its all pretty logical but- who knows

 

[bksballer89]

You do realize defense is the one thing Mike Brown does know. Do you know anything about this new coach team defensive stats in Europe?

 

[WiggyRuss]

You do realize defense is the one thing Mike Brown does know. Do you know anything about this new coach team defensive stats in Europe?

mike brown is an ass clown

he seriously could not connect IN THE SLIGHTEST bit with the young players- its sad to say but the team just did not buy in-

they will do better with anyone else as long as they buy in-

but - as to your point- i am SURE the pace will be much faster-and that their defense could improve and you would stillsee avg. points per game go up - simply because of possessions-

but the all these bad defense for the Cavs always centers around Kyrie and Love- two guys that have been shouldered with rhe responsibility of CARRYING their teams offense- without that responsibility- they should be able to put more effort into their defense- its not bullshit that offensive players that carry the load put in the majority of their effort on one side of the floor falter a little on the other side- - and that should correct this year slightly- and their effort should be better KNOWING they are in it every game- and dont have that hopeless feeling 50 games in - which is bullshit to a certain extent- but also simply human nature


and other than Love and Kyrie - its not a bad defensive team

LeBron is a GREAT defender
Varejao - the other starter- is a very good defender- ESPECIALLY against the pick and roll which is basically very teams bread and butter
Waiters is a solid defender- he is built like a freaking bowling ball and is fast and can play D
Delledova- who looks like the primary backup PG (besides Waiters)- is a bulldog on D and in his 15 minutes a night should have a positive impact
Marion - if we get him which looks like it will happen- will play 20 minutes a night PRIMARILY because of his defensive ability
Haywood- is a solid defensive big if we can squeeze anything outta him
Thompson was drafted to rebound and play D- and this is a big year for him to keep improving

Miller and Jones suck ass at D- you are correc-t Allen sucks too if they get him----

but there is absolutely ZERO reason why the Cavs should not be in the upper half of defensive teams in the league----- they are not gonna SNIFF the top 5 obviously- but if they get a little lucky- and get the right guy here or there- or the right guys improve- they could be right around top 10- and with their offense - which is going to be COMPLETELYfreaking unstoppable- that should be fine

if they were the 12th ranked defense- which is completely within their grasp- and the 1st or 2nd or3rd best offense- whichi think is agiven- that is just fine

 

[trojanfan12]

While that may be true- i think KYrie and Love fit better-
as we saw with Wade- it was like dueling banjos- it was- i take this possession, you take the next---- with Kyrie- that should be different for a few reasons ithink
A. Kyrie can shoot from the outside- Wade's BEST 3 pt shooting year was 31%- Kyrie-esp. with the spacing LBJ brings should be AT least around 38- and prob more like 40+- that floor spacing is key with LeBron
B. Kyrie is PG- and can make plays- last year Kyrie had a lot more assists AND less turnovers then Wade- LeBron can play off the ball and expect to find the ball on the mark--- if Kyrie had teammates that could shot he would have had probably about somewhere around 7-7.5 APG instead of low 6's....

and as for Love- there might not be a better fit in the league- he is similar to CB but just better- Bosh immidiately moved outside which moved hisrebounds down- Love lived outside for the Twolves last yeara nd still got 12.5 rebounds per game- that is crazy when u think about it- plus Loves outlet passing will spring fastbreaks for the best fastbreak player in the league (LBJ) instead of the complete dearth of fastbreak playmaking on the Heat last year, absent Bron of course

and the Cavs should have a better 4,5, 6, 7, 8. 9 10- ---they are STILL trying to acquire a center- they tried Mozgov with the Jazz expiring Ks they got plus a pick- and are still trying to get another center ----but- just by what they have (say they get one out of marion and allen - when in reality they might get both
4. Varejao, 5. Waiters, 6. Thompson, 7. Miller, 8. Marion 9. Haywood 10. Delledova---- gotta admit thats a shit-ton better than anything Miami put out any of those years at the 4-10 spots

and lastly

the Cavs werent a bad defensive team last year----- they were 15th in the league in points allowed- and 12th in opposing field goal percentage----- and that was with playing a ton of minutes to really young guys like Bennett, Delledova, and also scrub ass Bynum-------

add LBJ to the 15th ranked scoring defense and 12th ranked opposing shooting percentage defense- and you have what should be a team right on the border of a top 10 defense.....especially with Varejao playing more minutes (i mean- last year he got screwed developing a blood clot after having a procedure where he shouldve been out 4-6 weeks and made it months), and Marion- and Delledova- a very solid defender at the guard position with a year experience under his belt

A couple of points here. 1.) Yes, Wade was a redundancy when paired with Lebron. However, the issue was that caused the problems that you describe was the exact same one that the Cavs will have to sort out. There can only be one #1 option and they will have 3. Assuming that Kyrie and Love are smart enough to know that Lebron is the #1 option, they still have to decide who is #2 and who is #3. Plus, Love and Kyrie aren't as experienced as Wade and Bosh were. This makes the learning curve a little steeper.

Kyrie may be the PG, but Lebron is used to being the real point guard. How is Kyrie going to adjust to not being the one with the ball in his hands? You can't just assume a smooth transition. He's never played with a guy with Lebron's skillset. With Lebron on the team, it would be like the Showtime Lakers having Magic at small forward. They may have had a guy who played the point guard position, but Magic would be the guy handling the point guard duties.

Love being a better fit for Lebron does nothing for the defense. The Cavs were something like 18th in overall defense. Middle of the road defense isn't winning any titles. Love doesn't help the Cavs get better defensively. By adding Love, you're trading offense for defense. That's fine in the regular season, not so much in the finals.

 

[WiggyRuss]

A couple of points here. 1.) Yes, Wade was a redundancy when paired with Lebron. However, the issue was that caused the problems that you describe was the exact same one that the Cavs will have to sort out. There can only be one #1 option and they will have 3. Assuming that Kyrie and Love are smart enough to know that Lebron is the #1 option, they still have to decide who is #2 and who is #3. Plus, Love and Kyrie aren't as experienced as Wade and Bosh were. This makes the learning curve a little steeper.

Kyrie may be the PG, but Lebron is used to being the real point guard. How is Kyrie going to adjust to not being the one with the ball in his hands? You can't just assume a smooth transition. He's never played with a guy with Lebron's skillset. With Lebron on the team, it would be like the Showtime Lakers having Magic at small forward. They may have had a guy who played the point guard position, but Magic would be the guy handling the point guard duties.

Love being a better fit for Lebron does nothing for the defense. The Cavs were something like 18th in overall defense. Middle of the road defense isn't winning any titles. Love doesn't help the Cavs get better defensively. By adding Love, you're trading offense for defense. That's fine in the regular season, not so much in the finals.

Again-

Loves 35 minutes on the floor will basically replace Spencer Hawes - who actually is a worse defender than Love - and Tyler zeller- who got his ass ripped-and a little bit of Bynum when he was here- and he was AWFUL when he was here--- thats gonna be a wash

LeBron is going to replace a combination of Miles/Deng/Gee- which is decent- but no where close to LeBron level- especially since Deng had a sore achillees and all kinds of other injuries that limited him last year

you guys HAVE to acknowledge that Kyrie and Love will benefit defensively from not having to carry the vast majority of the offense for their teams- if just a small bit- and Kyrie should get a jump defensively just from physically maturing and the natural progression of young guys getting better at D as they age

Thompson and Delledova- 2 young guys- that will probably play about 25 minutes for TT and 15 minutes for Delle....should improve defensively just from experience/aging/physically getting bigger

Marion will be a nice guy to come off the bench for 15-25 minutes a night (depending on matchups etc.) to play defense on 3s and stretch 4s- that should be a positive

Miller sucks at D- that is a net minus for sure- as does Jones- say they play a combined 15-22 minutes a night- hmm...who do they replace...id say mostly CJ Miles...thats a downgrade


add all that up and you have to admit its a net positive for the defense that is fairly signififcant- say they go from , what did u say? 18?- to say something like 11-14

thats fine with the offense they should have in my book-

 

[bksballer89]

You're not winning a championship with a defense that is ranked between 11-14

 

[bksballer89]

DEF EFF rankings for the last 8 champions

2014 Spurs-4th
2013 Heat- 7th
2012 Heat- 4th
2011 Mavs- 7th
2010 Lakers-5th
2009 Lakers- 5th
2008 Celtics- 1st
2007 Spurs- 3rd

 

[WiggyRuss]

You're not winning a champion with a defense that is ranked between 11-14

i think you absolutely can if you have the best offense the league has seen in a decade or two

and have an All-NBA 1st team defender in LeBron-

basically-if LeBron has a good and motivated year and keys the defense like he did last time in Cleveland- and everyone buys in- the defense will be good

it comes down to how motivated LeBron is


and in the playoffs- can you get a stop when you need one- and can you get a bucket when you need one-

obviously the Cavs have at LEAST 2 guys in Irving and LeBron that can get a bucket at will when you need them-

Kyrie HAS the most game winners in the leaguesince he came into the league because you cant play him to drive- and you cant play him to shoot- because he can do both great- and he is clutch as shit-

LeBron is LeBron

as i said - who knows with Love- i havent watched him enoughto know if he can make that big shot at the end consistently



as for getting that stop

We know that LeBron can get that stop when he needs it- and that the Cavs defense shoudl be improved from last fairly significantly

Thompson should get similar minutes- Varejao should be slightly reduced- and Love will get Hawes and Zeller minutes- which might actually be a net GAIN defensively since Hawes is beyond atricious defensively



and i still have not heard one person acknolwedge that love and kyrie - just by virtue of not expending all their energy on offense should be better on defense this year- which is absolutely true


plus delledova and marion should be the equiavelnt of Jones and Miller- jones and miller are your ace shooters off the bench- while delle and marion should be your defenders

 

[bksballer89]

You're delusional if you think this is the best offense the NBA will see in the last decade or 2.

 

[WiggyRuss]

if said a couple times

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is going to be an amazing wing defender sometime in the next 2-3 years. He came into the league at 19- and had a ton of growing up to do, to phyiscally mature, learn the nuances of defense-

but that kid has the athleticism, the length, the heart, the work ethic, to be a great defender- ---hardly ANYBODY is a great defender off the bat unless you are a freak like Wiggins-

but id bet a lot of money on Michael Kidd-Gilchrist having some very significant moments in his NBA career defending on the perimeter-

id absolutely give up a solid asset or two- a good young player and or a pick or two- to get this kid.


any of you guys like MKG as much as i do - or think i am delusional? (lol- maybe dont asnwer that)

 

[bksballer89]

MKG is overrated for where he was picked. He's going to be a solid role player but when you're drafted 2nd in the draft you're not expected to just be solid role player

 

[WiggyRuss]

MKG is overrated for where he was picked. He's going to be a solid role player but when you're drafted 2nd in the draft you're not expected to just be solid role player

i just think its gonna take him time- he was 19 when he was drafted- and he wasnt drafted for his offense- he was drafted for his leadership, defense, athleticism, transition- basically a poor mans wiggins but wiggins is better at everything and had a better shot

when that kid gets into his prime i think he makes some all defense teams