Thoughts on trading up

[Dr. Evil-er]

We are always talking about how other teams hit on late round gems and the Lions never seem to. Now we hit on one in Waddle and now we want to draft a replacement?

This is what the Lions have done for years now. As far as I'm concerned thats why I have no interest in Clowney. Maybe before we trade away a bunch of valuable picks to get a guy who is physically gifted but mentally challenged we should give Taylor a chance before we move him into a back up role. He looked very promising last season.

I can't believe we are even talking about drafting a T. The only way I would consider that anything but completely stupid no matter who might be there would be if he traded back with someone like Miami and got another second rd pick. At their spot you take Zach Martin. The worst scenario you get with that guy is a Pro Bowl G but could easily end up being more. His versatility is what makes him an attractive pick. He immediately starts over the invisible man Sims, who we cut and save $2.575m. He would be a great pick and we get another second round pick where there will still be all kinds of value available (like Van Noy in that spot)

 

[gandydancer]

Speaking of thoughts on trading up. Jags just laid out huge smokescreen or the truth. Saying the dope smoking Okie is not in future plans. So either making people think you got to get to #3 for Watkins with Blackmon being a possible after thought.

 

[Old Lion]

This..

To add to that. I'm in camp with Old Lion in that Waddle might be better served at LT over Reiff. He was a 40 game starter at LT for Tex Tech (granted they ran a LOT of quick release 3, 5 step drops) but he has quicker feet, better kick-slide, longer arms, better initial punch and mirrors DE's as well as Reiff, JMO. He didn't receive many reps last year in camp due to Hilliard/Fox yet still performed admirably when called upon. He is not the mauling, run blocking RT. He is more finesse which suits his style for LT. He will now have a full NFL off-season under his belt and should be given "the opportunity to derail Reiff at LT", even being a UDFA. I will not profess that he will do it but he should be given the opportunity. JMO.

Very well thought out. I will add that I was surprised that the Lions did not switch last year instead of bringing Waddle into RT when Hilliard flamed out.

Regardless we have 2 tackles that can play either side and that gives us such flexibility if one gets hurt that it can be argued that this option makes it too valuable to use a top 10 pick on another tackle

 

[Cleaves2000]

Im gonna be happy with whatever the lions do unless they draft an OL RB or QB with the first round pick....with the draft so deep, they have to get a good player...if they trade up...great...elite prospect....if they stay put...great....good player.....if they trade back....great....good player and more picks...

But if they could trade up without using a future first....id do it in a heartbeat...i know people dont want to give up more picks to move up....but if its a 2nd or 2nd and 3rd or something like that....id do it....we usually blow our 2nd round pick anyways....might as well use it to get clowney, watkins, or mack

 

[lionstop1]

Cleaves, there is a interesting read over on mlive about the best scenario d or the Lions to trade up. I'll tell you what....this could be one of the most exciting drafts in a long time for me. The top few picks have been kind of boring because we usually know whats going to happen, but we dont this time.

Im excited to see what the Lions come with in every situation. A trade up, sitting at 10 or getting more picks by trading down. Earlier, I was thinking about all the different guys they could possibly get.

 

[gvsulaker82]

We are always talking about how other teams hit on late round gems and the Lions never seem to. Now we hit on one in Waddle and now we want to draft a replacement? With all the heavy contracts we have, we get some relief by having an UDFA starting for us and now we should Fuck that up by paying an OL top 10 money? Even if he were there @ 10 I'd let someone trade up to get him.

Dude you should see the other argument, drafting CJ's replacement.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Question -- Greg Robinson falls to the Lions at #10. You honestly believe the Lions pass on Robinson, because they have an undrafted FA, who took over the starting job, because the guy who beat him out in camp was injured?

If you have the chance to take a franchise OL, who they project could be one of the best OL in the NFL within a couple years -- you take him. Especially one they are talking about being athletic enough to play LT, but also could be the best run blocking OT in quite some time.

IMO, Detroit could draft Robinson and he could take his pick on what tackle position on the Lions he'd like to play and he'd be a monster upgrade.

If Waddle is your cup of tea -- leave him at RT, move Reiff inside to G and put Robinson at LT. If you want to wait till Sims is gone -- move Reiff to RT, Waddle can be ready if someone is injured and Robinson takes over LT. If you want to run the ball down people's throats -- Leave Reiff at LT, put Robinson at RT next to Warford and force teams to move their safeties closer to the line of scrimmage.

Agree, If OT is bpa at ten lions need to nab him. Their oline still needs improvement and one great season does not make a player. In other words it was good that reiff and waddle did well last year but Im not ready to ignore the OLine off of that. I would rather see a defensive player drafted, but tackle would be the only pick on offense at number ten that I would find acceptable.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Kind of like taking a third receiver top ten?

Agreed. I cant wrap my head around wasting a top ten pick on a third WR instead of adding a starter to the defense. I know, I know...third WR will be on the field a decent amount.

 

[lionstop1]

Gvs,

The arguement to draft a receiver is a decent one. Its been brutal for CJ over the last couple years and the offense isnt as good as some of you seem to think.

 

[Old Lion]

Barr is a one trick pony. I dont like him at 10.

Bullshit. You are probably letting Todd "douchenozzle" McShay's article sway your opinion. Barr is not only a pass rusher. Watch the tapes. He has very good tackling fundamentals. I also watched Khalil Mack tape and he could not carry Barr's jock strap. His hits lack pop and he is an arm tackler. That shit may work against those glorified high school teams he played against but it damn sure wont against AP and Matt Forte.
Heck, Barr would even be the second best TE on our team as well

Again, I would still prefer to trade back and take a shot on an LB in round 2 or 3. We could still get a CB in the top 20 and gain an extra pick

 

[Microwahevo]

That shit may work against those glorified high school teams he played against but it damn sure wont against AP and Matt Forte.

9 tackles, 2.5 sacks, 1 int, 1TD--That's what Mack did against OSU this past year. Hardly glorified HS players.

Now granted, that one game is a small sample size, but not every player that turns out to be good had played against top notch talent week in and week out.

 

[themuzzer]

Sorry Old Lion.....He's a LB......Respect the draft position.....We Draft at 10.....You don't draft kickers, Guards, LB's or for heaven sakes even RT's at 10.........

Give me a CB, QB, WR or DE at 10. I'll take a LT in Robinson, but that won't happen, he will be long gone.

I swear if Manziel falls to us take him.....Sure we suck this year but you have a trade chip and something you can barter for.

 

[Microwahevo]

Bullshit. You are probably letting Todd "douchenozzle" McShay's article sway your opinion. Barr is not only a pass rusher.

He's not the only one that recognizes Barr's areas for development(hell, doesn't every player coming out still need development?)

Per WalterFootball.com
Weaknesses:
Still somewhat raw
Needs to develop more pass-rushing moves
Needs to get stronger against runs coming straight at him
Needs to improve his ability to shed blocks
Not a natural fit in a 4-3; tweener end/outside linebacker

Per Rotoworld.com:
Three out of seven polled NFL.com draft analysts prefer UCLA's Anthony Barr to Buffalo's Khalil Mack.
So the other 4 nfl.com draft analysts prefer Mack.

Per SBNation.com:
Strength/Tackling: Barr needs to get bigger in order to get stronger at the point of attack. But his strength isn't as big of an issue as his tackling in space. He doesn't have incredible change of direction skills, so it's no surprise that he struggles to make plays in space. He missed too many tackles as a senior.
They even mentioned that his tackling skills need work.


About a month ago I would've preferred Barr over Mack, but after further research and video, I just personally think Mack will be the better player and would not mind if we moved up a few spots to grab him. I wouldn't wanna move up to the top 5, bc I think we could still land Shazier or VanNoy in the 2nd. I was just trying to point out that McShay isn't the only one that sees the things he saw.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The arguement to draft a receiver is a decent one. Its been brutal for CJ over the last couple years and the offense isnt as good as some of you seem to think.

We brought in Lombardi, who is supposed to be bringing the New Orleans offense with him. I posted the numbers for the 3rd WR's for New Orleans the last 3 years. They had anywhere from 22-44 catches over the last 3 years.

So is a 3rd WR really that important that you spend a top 10 pick on one? In all honesty -- Eric Ebron would make more sense than Watkins or Evans, as New Orleans loves to split a TE out wide and create mismatches. Detroit doesn't have a TE to do this.

Also -- Detroit's issues are more in the red zone, not moving the ball between the 20's, as teams just swamp Calvin Johnson with 2 and 3 defenders forcing Detroit to go elsewhere. Mike Evans would be a better solution to solve this problem than Watkins, IMO. Are teams going to single cover Mike Evans in the red zone? It'd be a pick your poison for opposing defenses.

 

[lionstop1]

I would agree with saying Watkins is a 3rd receiver if he wasn't an elite prospect. This dude is better than Tate yet people would consider him a 3rd receiver? By depth, yes but not by skill.

This will be my final time speaking on this until after the draft.

The Lions organization, plus the majority of the media have spent a lot of time and attention on the WR position for this team. Its quite obvious to me that they see a need there and I happen to agree. I highly doubt that Mayhew and the crew is just automatically wanting a WR for the hell of it. Tate is a good option to have but nobody to where you can just be completely done adding to the position. It doesnt have to be a 1st round pick but you always have to consider adding a elite prospect to a area of strength.

We cannot sit here and act as if we know exactly what the Lions plans are as far as scheme and the personel they need. Its easy for us to be sitting here stating who they should and shouldnt get. Thats why I kind of just roll with what they do until i see failure.

I think one of the things I like about Watkins besides being a fan is the fact that he has actually shown a passion for wanting to play for the Lions even though he may be out of reach. We need guys like him. I would trade up for him instead of settling for whoever falls to 10. Im not impressed enough by Barr, Donald, Dix and a couple of the other guys enough to say not to trade up. Mack is a really good player and would fit what the Lions need but he is a OLB. Clowney is a high risk guy to trade up for. Watkins makes things very interesting in Detroit.

 

[lionstop1]

Oh yeah, I forgot something.

Not that it matters, but Kiper actually has the Lions taking Beckham at 10 now.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I think one of the things I like about Watkins besides being a fan is the fact that he has actually shown a passion for wanting to play for the Lions even though he may be out of reach. We need guys like him

Every WR wants to play for Detroit. They have a QB that has thrown for almost 15,000 yards the last 3 years, as well as the best WR in football already.

When your options of getting drafted, and this is not meant to disrespect these other QB's are, Sam Bradford, Matt Schaub, Chad Henne, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon or the backup from the Bears they signed (Luke McCown (?), etc. -- Detroit looks like a great place to go.


Any other team spending a top 10 in this draft, sans Atlanta, who won't be drafting him -- He is going to be facing top CBs and have inferior QBs throwing him the ball. Also -- Detroit isn't the only team Watkins has been posting the instagram pics of him in their jersey. He did the same thing for the Rams too.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The Lions organization, plus the majority of the media have spent a lot of time and attention on the WR position for this team. Its quite obvious to me that they see a need there and I happen to agree. I highly doubt that Mayhew and the crew is just automatically wanting a WR for the hell of it. Tate is a good option to have but nobody to where you can just be completely done adding to the position. It doesnt have to be a 1st round pick but you always have to consider adding a elite prospect to a area of strength.

It is obvious the Lions have a spot open for a 3rd WR. It isn't like it is a secret. I just have a hard time calling it a need, as they already have Calvin and signed Golden Tate. If Tate wasn't signed as a FA -- I would be with you arguing for the Lions to trade away whatever it takes to get Watkins.

Detroit just lacks depth at too many positions and needs talent added to the other side of the ball to trade away picks right now. Trading up for a WR, IMO, just seems like a desperation move by Mayhew, to save his job. Watkins would help the Lions get to the playoffs, as they will outscore many teams. I don't see him helping the Lions take the Lions to the next level and being competitive with the top teams, because the top QBs/offenses will still pick apart the Lions.

I look at it like this. St. Louis is drafting 2nd overall. If Clowney drops to #2, he should be a no-brainer pick for basically any team. He has freakish athletic ability and plays one of the premier positions teams would kill for (DE). Instead of drafting him, they will hold an auction and trade the pick to the highest bidder and use the picks to get better as a team, as they already have Quinn and Long.

Granted -- a 3rd WR will be on the field more than a 3rd DE, but there will still be many times where Detroit won't have a 3rd WR on the field, as they signed a FB, so I'm assuming they are going to be using him. Are they going to sit the FA they gave a contract making him the 20th highest paid WR or they guy they traded up to draft in the top 5?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Not that it matters, but Kiper actually has the Lions taking Beckham at 10 now.

Good lord -- If the Lions drafted Beckham at #10, I would be absolutely dumbfounded and Mayhew should be fired on the spot.

 

[gandydancer]

Good lord -- If the Lions drafted Beckham at #10, I would be absolutely dumbfounded and Mayhew should be fired on the spot.

The Ford's should be force to sell if that did not happen...