Thoughts on the Michigan sign stealing allegations?

[fritowrdo]

This is pretty stupid at this point. We don't actually know that Harbaugh was cheating at all.

He is the coach and it happened on his watch.

 

[Wamu]

If this is true just more trouble.

sources: purdue probe finds michigan's connor stalions bought tickets to 6 of it's games the last 2 years

 

[Wolvie]

Some numbers that don't add up.

Three years before Connor Stalions UofM football was 21-11 and 16-8 in conference.

And the last three seasons they are 33-3 and 21-1 in conference.

Do the "nameless sources" mean much? It's not a coincidence how much better UofM's record has been since Stalions got to ann arbor.

And I'm not talking any shit right now or taking any shots at your team (been known to do that many times in the past). But the before and after record shouldn't be ignored.

On the surface that looks suspicious right? But in college football there is not parity in opponents. We should at least try to shave out the cupcake opponents from that record to make a more valid point. Then, once it is boiled down, I would want to see if there has been a change in defensive prowess, i.e. yards per play given up, turnovers forced, etc. Stealing signs shouldn't affect offense at all I would imagine but I would also like to see if the offense progressed similarly in that timeframe, as it's still possible that Michigan just got better over that course of time without any regards to sign stealing. If someone can break down that data for me, then I could definitely be persuaded that this cheating has benefited the program's record.

 

[Wolvie]

Correct.

lol, how?

 

[Wolvie]

If this is true just more trouble.

sources: purdue probe finds michigan's connor stalions bought tickets to 6 of it's games the last 2 years

How many of those games were before Michigan played them vs. after Michigan played them. The rules actually allow you to go to games if your teams don't play that opponent later that season. If there were tickets purchased after Michigan played them, then why did that happen if the sole purpose was to steal signs for the benefit of the UM program?

 

[Wamu]

On the surface that looks suspicious right? But in college football there is not parity in opponents. We should at least try to shave out the cupcake opponents from that record to make a more valid point. Then, once it is boiled down, I would want to see if there has been a change in defensive prowess, i.e. yards per play given up, turnovers forced, etc. Stealing signs shouldn't affect offense at all I would imagine but I would also like to see if the offense progressed similarly in that timeframe, as it's still possible that Michigan just got better over that course of time without any regards to sign stealing. If someone can break down that data for me, then I could definitely be persuaded that this cheating has benefited the program's record.

How many of those games were before Michigan played them vs. after Michigan played them. The rules actually allow you to go to games if your teams don't play that opponent later that season. If there were tickets purchased after Michigan played them, then why did that happen if the sole purpose was to steal signs for the benefit of the UM program?

Hey this just isn't looking good for UofM. That's all I'm saying.

These numbers don't lie.

Three years before Connor Stalions UofM football was 21-11 and 16-8 in conference.

And the last three seasons they are 33-3 and 21-1 in conference.

 

[Wolvie]

Hey this just isn't looking good for UofM. That's all I'm saying.

These numbers don't lie.

Numbers necessarily lie. They can be contorted any which way to prove whatever point you want to prove. If you want to prove that Michigan was knowing their opponents' plays in the last three years but not the three years prior, then knowing things like yards per play would be more helpful than actual overall record. For example, Michigan has had a very cupcake schedule thus far. Many teams would be undefeated right now if they had this same schedule. That doesn't mean that they necessarily were stealing signs if the previous year they were 4-4 but playing tough teams. It also doesn't take into account replacing a shit QB with a Heisman-level QB.

 

[Wamu]

Numbers necessarily lie. They can be contorted any which way to prove whatever point you want to prove. If you want to prove that Michigan was knowing their opponents' plays in the last three years but not the three years prior, then knowing things like yards per play would be more helpful than actual overall record. For example, Michigan has had a very cupcake schedule thus far. Many teams would be undefeated right now if they had this same schedule. That doesn't mean that they necessarily were stealing signs if the previous year they were 4-4 but playing tough teams. It also doesn't take into account replacing a shit QB with a Heisman-level QB.

"numbers necessarily lie" <--Thanks for the laugh.

What? So you're calling these numbers a lie?

21-11 and 16-8 in conference 3 years before Stalions. Then 33-3 and 21-1 the last three years.

 

[jwolt92]

The amount of spin zoning happening with the scUM fans is ridiculous. Cheating is cheating is cheating. No 2 ways about it. If they cheated, they fuckin cheated and everything during that time frame is tainted. Cupcake opponent or your rival, if they cheated then the results are swayed in their favor. That's the end of the goddamn discussion. Get the hell out of here with the "it didn't help that much" bullshit.

 

[Wamu]

The amount of spin zoning happening with the scUM fans is ridiculous. Cheating is cheating is cheating. No 2 ways about it. If they cheated, they fuckin cheated and everything during that time frame is tainted. Cupcake opponent or your rival, if they cheated then the results are swayed in their favor. That's the end of the goddamn discussion. Get the hell out of here with the "it didn't help that much" bullshit.

Kinda odd about the cupcake opponent nonsense. Like you said cheating is cheating. Doesn't matter if the opponent is ranked or unranked.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Kinda odd about the cupcake opponent nonsense. Like you said cheating is cheating. Doesn't matter if the opponent is ranked or unranked.

Coaches seem to think it's a 10+ point advantage for Michigan, when polled anonymously. That's not nothing.

 

[Wolvie]

"numbers necessarily lie" <--Thanks for the laugh.

What? So you're calling these numbers a lie?

21-11 and 16-8 in conference 3 years before Stalions. Then 33-3 and 21-1 the last three years.

If you are claiming those numbers mean what you want them to mean, then yes they are lying to you. A better argument would be winning margin if you wanted to be honest about it. Beating Minnesota by 50 points is a lot different than beating them with a last minute fg, but both show up on the record as 1-0.

 

[Wamu]

If you are claiming those numbers mean what you want them to mean, then yes they are lying to you. A better argument would be winning margin if you wanted to be honest about it. Beating Minnesota by 50 points is a lot different than beating them with a last minute fg, but both show up on the record as 1-0.

 

[Wamu]

Coaches seem to think it's a 10+ point advantage for Michigan, when polled anonymously. That's not nothing.

ann arbor fans just want this to go away. For some of them this is just a big nothing. Why the NCAA pickin' on them?

 

[Wolvie]

ann arbor fans just want this to go away. For some of them this is just a big nothing. Why the NCAA pickin' on them?

Nah, I'd rather the NCAA come out and give actual details rather than let Michigan get dragged through the mud on innuendo.

 

[PIBuckeye]

there was a train derailment in michigan today. symbolic for michigan football ethics and reputation.

 

[Wamu]

Nah, I'd rather the NCAA come out and give actual details rather than let Michigan get dragged through the mud on innuendo.

So you still don't see anything strange about UofM's record three years before Connor Stalions and the three years since he got to ann arbor?

They aren't getting dragged through the mud. The numbers don't lie.

 

[fritowrdo]

lol, how?

You all cheat.

 

[Wolvie]

You all cheat.

surrender accepted

 

[Wolvie]

So you still don't see anything strange about UofM's record three years before Connor Stalions and the three years since he got to ann arbor?

They aren't getting dragged through the mud. The numbers don't lie.

Numbers absolutely lie. I'm not saying that there isn't anything fishy going on. Obviously Connor Stalions appears to have done some explicit acts that the rules do not allow. I just don't know if this was some rogue act by some low level grad assistant in order to trick the team to think he was worthy of paying to be on the staff, or whether or not this was some cheating scheme created by Harbaugh.