There is no fucking Doubt anymore

[trojanfan12]

Well Trojan I guess that is that. I will try my best to stop suggesting a way to improve the situation

Kobe has a no trade clause and a $48 million dollar contract. Teams that can contend, have to give up too much of what makes them contenders to get him. Kobe has pretty much said he's not going anywhere and the Lakers have said they have no interest in trading him. It's really not that difficult to figure out and is a pointless conversation.

Even if Kobe became so frustrated that he went back on his word to the FO and demanded a trade, they still have to find a trade partner and do you honestly think that he's going to agree to a trade to anything other than a contender?

 

[LogicMan]

Knicks could contend with him added, especially next year.

 

[trojanfan12]

I disagree. They need more than an old Kobe to get become contenders. Like I said, it doesn't matter anyway. He has a no trade clause and says he's not interested in going anywhere and the Lakers FO has said they have no interest in trading him. They have their 3 year plan, they seem confident it will work. We'll see if it does.

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

Looks like you made it all up to me. It's not a scheme thing. The Lakers offensive scheme isn't to stand around and watch Kobe, but that's what's happening much of the time. Try watching a game, not just reading stats.

I stop reading, once he said it was scheme thing. For some reason, he has been negative about everything the Lakers do since this summer.

 

[LogicMan]

Those agreements can be modified. Kg just did it to go to Brooklyn. Its just what is the priorities of either party.

Lakers are wealthy, and their fans will show up without Kobe.

Right?

 

[Inimical]

Lakers played their best game all year tonight. They are a confusing and frustrating bunch. I stand by my statement, though i hope this is not an anomaly. I am conflicted. These are the Lakers, they have to win. Though i have accepted losing. My weakest moment as a Laker fan lol. I guess in some weird way i want to make sure the Lakers are still the most trolled relevant team

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Kobe has a no trade clause and a $48 million dollar contract. Teams that can contend, have to give up too much of what makes them contenders to get him. Kobe has pretty much said he's not going anywhere and the Lakers have said they have no interest in trading him. It's really not that difficult to figure out and is a pointless conversation.

Even if Kobe became so frustrated that he went back on his word to the FO and demanded a trade, they still have to find a trade partner and do you honestly think that he's going to agree to a trade to anything other than a contender?

No, but they could go in this summer and re-negotiate the contract and take that 24 million off the books under the new CBA which would enable the Lakers to go after more free agents, but the Lakers will be under the salary cap, so they are going to avoid their usual luxary taxes any way and once Kobe is off the books for good, they will most likely stay under for quite a few years to come and learn how to contend

 

[Inimical]

No, but they could go in this summer and re-negotiate the contract and take that 24 million off the books under the new CBA which would enable the Lakers to go after more free agents, but the Lakers will be under the salary cap, so they are going to avoid their usual luxary taxes any way and once Kobe is off the books for good, they will most likely stay under for quite a few years to come and learn how to contend

Im almost positive the Lakers can land 2 of hte 3 big free agents this offseason.

 

[trojanfan12]

Those agreements can be modified. Kg just did it to go to Brooklyn. Its just what is the priorities of either party.

Lakers are wealthy, and their fans will show up without Kobe.

Right?

Brooklyn isn't a contender and what part of "Kobe has said he doesn't intend to go anywhere and the Lakers have said they have no intention to trade him" are you not grasping?

We can spend the entire season coming up with trade scenarios and it doesn't mean shit. I suppose things could change, but even if some team presented the Lakers with an offer they couldn't refuse, it wouldn't matter if Kobe didn't agree to be traded.

By the same token, it wouldn't matter if Kobe started demanding a trade if the Lakers refused to trade him.

 

[wildturkey]

I stop reading, once he said it was scheme thing. For some reason, he has been negative about everything the Lakers do since this summer.

Maybe that's because I'm not a blind fan that supports whatever LA does and can actually approach things objectively. That's not negative. So I'm negative because I could look at the roster in September and tell they wouldn't even sniff the playoffs? That's not negative. That's being realistic. Yeah, whatever.

Looks like you made it all up to me. It's not a scheme thing. The Lakers offensive scheme isn't to stand around and watch Kobe, but that's what's happening much of the time. Try watching a game, not just reading stats.

Bullshit. You're just wrong. Because that's what's happening even if you can't recognize it yourself. You're not comprehending anything at all. The reason that standing about happens is because the scheme BREAKS DOWN and they don't know what to do. It's not vice versa. They don't start running the offense, pass to Kobe, and immediately stop. If they did, then Byron Scott is the worst coach alive and can't teach even the most basic of offensive principles to the 4 other guys on the court not named Kobe. But even I don't think Scott is that bad.

No, what generally happens when things are going south is the first option is taken away. The offense isn't complex enough to have multiple layered options so they have to reset. If they don't reset, Kobe goes in iso. Watch basketball. What happens in isolations? It's one guy with the others standing around. That's what an isolation is and why teams try to avoid it because it usually results in a negative play. What's the solution in the short term (since you're not adding in layers that quickly)? Kobe has to stop going in iso so much and actively take it upon himself to get back into a team flow. And yeah, go read a stat sheet or two. It'll help you out. It's funny how those stats match up with exactly what I'm talking about. Oh, and if they're constantly just standing around watching Kobe, you'd think they'd be open when he gets double or tripled team, as has happened numerous times (or has that not happened at all this season? I don't watch games so I don't know). Wonder why he won't pass them the ball then? Cuz you know...they are open even if they're just standing around. That double team has to come at the expense of someone. But wait, I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't watch Lakers games and don't know jackshit about basketball. :rollseyes:

 

[trojanfan12]

Maybe that's because I'm not a blind fan that supports whatever LA does and can actually approach things objectively. That's not negative. So I'm negative because I could look at the roster in September and tell they wouldn't even sniff the playoffs? That's not negative. That's being realistic. Yeah, whatever.



Bullshit. You're just wrong. Because that's what's happening even if you can't recognize it yourself. You're not comprehending anything at all. The reason that standing about happens is because the scheme BREAKS DOWN and they don't know what to do. It's not vice versa. They don't start running the offense, pass to Kobe, and immediately stop. If they did, then Byron Scott is the worst coach alive and can't teach even the most basic of offensive principles to the 4 other guys on the court not named Kobe. But even I don't think Scott is that bad.

No, what generally happens when things are going south is the first option is taken away. The offense isn't complex enough to have multiple layered options so they have to reset. If they don't reset, Kobe goes in iso. Watch basketball. What happens in isolations? It's one guy with the others standing around. That's what an isolation is and why teams try to avoid it because it usually results in a negative play. What's the solution in the short term (since you're not adding in layers that quickly)? Kobe has to stop going in iso so much and actively take it upon himself to get back into a team flow. And yeah, go read a stat sheet or two. It'll help you out. It's funny how those stats match up with exactly what I'm talking about. Oh, and if they're constantly just standing around watching Kobe, you'd think they'd be open when he gets double or tripled team, as has happened numerous times (or has that not happened at all this season? I don't watch games so I don't know). Wonder why he won't pass them the ball then? Cuz you know...they are open even if they're just standing around. That double team has to come at the expense of someone. But wait, I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't watch Lakers games and don't know jackshit about basketball. :rollseyes:

Apparently, you don't watch and don't know jackshit about basketball. Kobe and Byron have been complaining about the same thing all season long. Players passing him the ball and then standing and watching.

Tonight, his teammates actually moved without the ball, were aggressive on the offensive end and didn't just stand and watch. Lo and behold, the Lakers had their most efficient offensive performance of the season and won the game. It doesn't require a complex offense, it just requires guys running the offense the way it's set up and not just running it through Kobe.

Sorry, but I'm going to go with what Byron and Kobe are saying over what you say.

 

[Inimical]

Stop it! Stop it! This thread is tearing us apart

 

[trojanfan12]

Stop it! Stop it! This thread is tearing us apart

 

[wildturkey]

Apparently, you don't watch and don't know jackshit about basketball. Kobe and Byron have been complaining about the same thing all season long. Players passing him the ball and then standing and watching.

Tonight, his teammates actually moved without the ball, were aggressive on the offensive end and didn't just stand and watch. Lo and behold, the Lakers had their most efficient offensive performance of the season and won the game. It doesn't require a complex offense, it just requires guys running the offense the way it's set up and not just running it through Kobe.

Sorry, but I'm going to go with what Byron and Kobe are saying over what you say.

What? Because Kobe and Bryon can't be wrong? Don't deflect by just going with what they say as your catch all. Show me some stats or film that tells me what I'm seeing is wrong. You seen his usage rate or when you're watching how long he's holding onto the ball? That's all indicative of a player playing outside the offense. Shit, we've seen it all before. Phil had to get on Kobe's ass numerous times for this exact same thing. I didn't watch tonight so I can't comment on that game. But I've seen them play well offensively in a couple of games this year. And yeah, its when they buy in that they've looked good but its also because Kobe buys in first. When they've looked bad, its largely because he bails out far too soon, sucking up the majority of the possession, dooming the offense to stagnation and inefficiency.

 

[trojanfan12]

What? Because Kobe and Bryon can't be wrong? Don't deflect by just going with what they say as your catch all. Show me some stats or film that tells me what I'm seeing is wrong. You seen his usage rate or when you're watching how long he's holding onto the ball? That's all indicative of a player playing outside the offense. Shit, we've seen it all before. Phil had to get on Kobe's ass numerous times for this exact same thing. I didn't watch tonight so I can't comment on that game. But I've seen them play well offensively in a couple of games this year. And yeah, its when they buy in that they've looked good but its also because Kobe buys in first. When they've looked bad, its largely because he bails out far too soon, sucking up the majority of the possession, dooming the offense to stagnation and inefficiency.

Yes, clearly you are much smarter than Byron and Kobe. Done with this conversation. I'm not changing my opinion and you're not changing yours. Agree to disagree.

 

[wildturkey]

Yes, clearly you are much smarter than Byron and Kobe. Done with this conversation. I'm not changing my opinion and you're not changing yours. Agree to disagree.

Never said I was smarter. I asked if it was possible they could be wrong. You're done because you can't provide anything to prove me wrong. That sounds arrogant as hell and I'm sure I'm coming off as an ass here but whatever. I'll be the bad guy on this. I've watched the games, I've seen all the stats and info, and I'm explaining what I see going on based on it. I don't see anything that discounts what I said (or even what starbigd said initially). I will gladly look any stats, video, etc if you could provide it. I welcome it because I love basketball and enjoy learning as much about it as I can and I have no trouble at all saying when I'm wrong.

 

[trojanfan12]

Never said I was smarter. I asked if it was possible they could be wrong. You're done because you can't provide anything to prove me wrong. That sounds arrogant as hell and I'm sure I'm coming off as an ass here but whatever. I'll be the bad guy on this. I've watched the games, I've seen all the stats and info, and I'm explaining what I see going on based on it. I don't see anything that discounts what I said (or even what starbigd said initially). I will gladly look any stats, video, etc if you could provide it. I welcome it because I love basketball and enjoy learning as much about it as I can and I have no trouble at all saying when I'm wrong.

And I haven't seen anything to disprove what I've said and you haven't provided anything to prove me wrong. Meanwhile, the coach and Kobe are saying the same thing I've said.

Like I said, agree to disagree.

 

[LogicMan]

Trojan, KG actually went to a contender, which at that time was Brooklyn. Pierce talked him into removing his no trade clause probably arguing a better chance their than in Boston, and of course, Boston wanted to rebuild. That's no hurt on Pierces image, in fact, it did the opposite. Pierce and Kg s decision has set Danny up nicely, and as you saw when they returned, Boston has and will see them as loyal guys who helped the team transition. Kg could have sat here, collected 2 extra years dough, and ate chowder.

I just googled possible Kobe trades and actually Knicks are the team that could make the most sense. Place a decent free agent next year with Kobe and Melo, and yeah, here in the east, great chance to compete with Cavs for top spot. It's all quite logical and would accelerate Lakers rebuild.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Kobe isn't going to be traded. Not to mention, he makes a lot more than KG did when he was traded.

The team receiving Kobe would basically have to gut their team to acquire him. The KG-Kobe situation are like comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Davis_Mike]

The team receiving Kobe would basically have to gut their team to acquire him. The KG-Kobe situation are like comparing apples to oranges.

Kobe for Amare plus Shumpert would work, but I doubt either team would do it.