The Time Has Come to Vote - Malik or Oz?

[cdumler7]

Yeah and every defense will know this and jam his first two reads and then he'll hold the ball too long,get sacked and fumble or he will panic and completely miss the wr and throw it 10 yds over his head to the safety for a pk. Your basically saying Denver needs to simplify their offense just like they did with Tebow with a guy that was a starter and rookie mvp his first year. Look I`m not saying RG isn`t intelligent at all. Pretty sure he had a very high GPA at Baylor ( law degree maybe? Might have wrong guy ) but that doesn`t mean he can grasp reading defenses which is critical at least to a strong degree to win ball games. Your also saying that the coaching he`s had and who have worked very hard with him must be a bunch of clueless idiots and Kubiak is the "troubled qb " guru for some reason. I`m willing to say if you want to take a chance on him you bring him in as a back up to Brock and then we`ll see if he can earn his way into the starting gig. But to really think what this guy has shown skill wise and attitude wise since his rookie season that he would come to Denver and after they baby him and make your offense basically a beginning math class for him, that maybe he`ll become the next Russell Wilson!! Sorry but I think the guy is what he`s shown and if he can`t put the big boy pants on and learn to play the big boy game that translates to being a quality qb then it is what it is.

No I am saying that Kubiak's offense is QB friendly because he simplifies things for all QB's not just for RGIII. This is the idea behind the Bootleg play is get the defense going one way thinking run then have 1 receiver running a deep route in hoping the safety bit on the run play then have another receiver running the underneath route. If the deep play is open then you take it. If not then you just dump it off to the underneath guy or since we would have a running QB they can take off if say a LB did hold and is covering the underneath guy too. So it is a simple 2 read thing that Kubiak has done forever.

Also in a very similar system to what Kubiak wants run that Shanahan ran RGIII found lots of success before his injury. The 2nd season I blame Shanahan and his staff for rushing him back into the starting line up before his knee was fully ready. His mechanics changed to compensate for his knee. I've watched the slow motion of his rookie year to his sophomore year and completely different mechanics. He did not trust that knee. He should not have been playing until he got a little more time running on it. After that Shanahan was fired and they brought in a coach that had a system that did not work well with RGIII's skill set. Yes RGIII did not help the situation with his attitude but then again he also didn't really have anybody showing him exactly what it meant to be a professional QB. He had another guy that was drafted the same year as him. That is why I am saying Kubiak would be great for him because he is an experienced QB that knows how to talk to another QB and teach him. I'm not saying RGIII would be a success and I hope we sign Oz. I think you keep missing that point. I am just giving some alternative ideas in case Osweiler prices himself out of Denver. I'm not saying any of these are perfect but there is a very real situation in which Osweiler is not our QB this next season. What do we do then? I am just pointing to a Plan B.

 

[randymon]

In a 32 team league - Peyton Manning was the 27th rated QB and Oz was the 31st - we are talking Blaine Gabbert territory - did you actually watch the season? Peyton's smarts were offset by 9TDS and 17 interceptions - and 16 sacks for the regular season.

NFL Stats: by Player Category

There ya go Mingo. Mr stats guy. Peyton had a terrible season stats wise. Ints, sacks and a plethora of three and outs. No denying that. But he also had a terrible O line, almost non exsistance run game and he was hurt. He also made a hell of a lot of great decisions at the line that resulted in 1st downs and kept drives alive and got points on the board even if only fgs ( which by the way pretty much helped win every game they played. Don`t forget also Mingo and others, that their ineptness in the red zone falls on many heads not just Peytons. They couldn`t run could they. They dropped passes didn`t they. Anyone that is on here saying Peyton had nothing to do with, and although his "stats" sucked, had nothing to do with Denver winning the SB. Man, if your this quick to totally chastise and degrade a qb that was extremely instumental in Denver winning a SB, I sure feel sorry for the next Qbs to lead this team. God help them. They better have good stats at least. Mingo be happy then

 

[CEH]

No I am saying that Kubiak's offense is QB friendly because he simplifies things for all QB's not just for RGIII. This is the idea behind the Bootleg play is get the defense going one way thinking run then have 1 receiver running a deep route in hoping the safety bit on the run play then have another receiver running the underneath route. If the deep play is open then you take it. If not then you just dump it off to the underneath guy or since we would have a running QB they can take off if say a LB did hold and is covering the underneath guy too. So it is a simple 2 read thing that Kubiak has done forever.

Also in a very similar system to what Kubiak wants run that Shanahan ran RGIII found lots of success before his injury. The 2nd season I blame Shanahan and his staff for rushing him back into the starting line up before his knee was fully ready. His mechanics changed to compensate for his knee. I've watched the slow motion of his rookie year to his sophomore year and completely different mechanics. He did not trust that knee. He should not have been playing until he got a little more time running on it. After that Shanahan was fired and they brought in a coach that had a system that did not work well with RGIII's skill set. Yes RGIII did not help the situation with his attitude but then again he also didn't really have anybody showing him exactly what it meant to be a professional QB. He had another guy that was drafted the same year as him. That is why I am saying Kubiak would be great for him because he is an experienced QB that knows how to talk to another QB and teach him. I'm not saying RGIII would be a success and I hope we sign Oz. I think you keep missing that point. I am just giving some alternative ideas in case Osweiler prices himself out of Denver. I'm not saying any of these are perfect but there is a very real situation in which Osweiler is not our QB this next season. What do we do then? I am just pointing to a Plan B.

I sit in the North Endzone so I saw this play many a time. Most times there is actually 3 routes a deep cross, an intermediate cross and a short cross. The other thing it does is eliminate half the field making the read for the QB easier. All 3 routes are in his line of sight.

I hear RGIII is not liked in the locker room. This may be his biggest issue when you ask a player to lead his team. From a talent standpoint , RGIII may be worth a look. I suspect Kubaik and Elway will query SHanahan for his opinion on the kid.

 

[randymon]

No I am saying that Kubiak's offense is QB friendly because he simplifies things for all QB's not just for RGIII. This is the idea behind the Bootleg play is get the defense going one way thinking run then have 1 receiver running a deep route in hoping the safety bit on the run play then have another receiver running the underneath route. If the deep play is open then you take it. If not then you just dump it off to the underneath guy or since we would have a running QB they can take off if say a LB did hold and is covering the underneath guy too. So it is a simple 2 read thing that Kubiak has done forever.

Also in a very similar system to what Kubiak wants run that Shanahan ran RGIII found lots of success before his injury. The 2nd season I blame Shanahan and his staff for rushing him back into the starting line up before his knee was fully ready. His mechanics changed to compensate for his knee. I've watched the slow motion of his rookie year to his sophomore year and completely different mechanics. He did not trust that knee. He should not have been playing until he got a little more time running on it. After that Shanahan was fired and they brought in a coach that had a system that did not work well with RGIII's skill set. Yes RGIII did not help the situation with his attitude but then again he also didn't really have anybody showing him exactly what it meant to be a professional QB. He had another guy that was drafted the same year as him. That is why I am saying Kubiak would be great for him because he is an experienced QB that knows how to talk to another QB and teach him. I'm not saying RGIII would be a success and I hope we sign Oz. I think you keep missing that point. I am just giving some alternative ideas in case Osweiler prices himself out of Denver. I'm not saying any of these are perfect but there is a very real situation in which Osweiler is not our QB this next season. What do we do then? I am just pointing to a Plan B.

Nice! Look Cd, I know how they will have to use RG3 too. So will every D they face. You can throw all your bootlegs you want in there but sooner or later he`s going to have to throw from the pocket. He hasn`t shown that yet. I know your saying all this if Denver is Brockless in 2016 but give me somebody besides RG3. Tell you what....this is how confident I am about RG3 being a "good" starter for any team in the future..... I`ll tatoo my ass with RG3 on one side and just for mega and others, I`ll throw Tebow on the other cheek if it comes to be

 

[Mingo]

There ya go Mingo. Mr stats guy. Peyton had a terrible season stats wise. Ints, sacks and a plethora of three and outs. No denying that. But he also had a terrible O line, almost non exsistance run game and he was hurt. He also made a hell of a lot of great decisions at the line that resulted in 1st downs and kept drives alive and got points on the board even if only fgs ( which by the way pretty much helped win every game they played. Don`t forget also Mingo and others, that their ineptness in the red zone falls on many heads not just Peytons. They couldn`t run could they. They dropped passes didn`t they. Anyone that is on here saying Peyton had nothing to do with, and although his "stats" sucked, had nothing to do with Denver winning the SB. Man, if your this quick to totally chastise and degrade a qb that was extremely instumental in Denver winning a SB, I sure feel sorry for the next Qbs to lead this team. God help them. They better have good stats at least. Mingo be happy then

I have not chastised or degraded anyone - I am pointing out a fact - this Bronco team won the world championship because of the pass rush/run stop defense they displayed and keeping intact what they won with would seem to be a simple calculation.

I have not changed - I have written glowingly about Manning and Osweiler. I have immense respect for PFM -and do not contradict your assertions that Manning made many clever plays and calls during the past season - he was an integral part of the team that won the Super Bowl. I will also agree with you that generally it is the QBacking that wins championships -look at the Super Bowl MVP winners to prove that. I am here to tell you - IMO - it didn't happen that way this year - this year - a mighty defense - like a great symphony - rose up and won a championship.

 

[CEH]

You can keep a team together if you have a steady QB every in and year out because it's very difficult to keep a defense together for more than 2 years.

You can see this offseason guys on defense will get paid and leave. Knowing you have a guy at QB for the next 5-6 years will keep you in the hunt every year.

 

[randymon]

I have not chastised or degraded anyone - I am pointing out a fact - this Bronco team won the world championship because of the pass rush/run stop defense they displayed and keeping intact what they won with would seem to be a simple calculation.

I have not changed - I have written glowingly about Manning and Osweiler. I have immense respect for PFM -and do not contradict your assertions that Manning made many clever plays and calls during the past season - he was an integral part of the team that won the Super Bowl. I will also agree with you that generally it is the QBacking that wins championships -look at the Super Bowl MVP winners to prove that. I am here to tell you - IMO - it didn't happen that way this year - this year - a mighty defense - like a great symphony - rose up and won a championship.

Points scored by Defense = ????
Points scored by offense = ??????
You do the math.

 

[Mingo]

Points scored by Defense = ????
Points scored by offense = ??????
You do the math.

I do plenty of math - you are looking for offensive scoring production above replacement value and for the Broncos this past season that was a very low number - when you take out the 5 defensive TDS and the many other points (usually 3) set up by defensive stops - you arrive at the conclusion - (as I have) that virtually anyone could have QBed this team to a championship.

 

[LGM]

I don't think either are irreplaceable, though the pickings are much more slim via FA for the qb spot. We already have some depth at DE, or at least players who can move there. We have no such depth at QB.

Oz, simply because he won't break the bank like Jackson will, and we will get to keep more players signing Oz than if we signed Jackson

 

[cdumler7]

Just so people know the latest rumors are that Oz's agent is seeking something in the $15-20 million range. Too rich for my blood.

 

[58crash]

I don't think either are irreplaceable, though the pickings are much more slim via FA for the qb spot. We already have some depth at DE, or at least players who can move there. We have no such depth at QB.

Oz, simply because he won't break the bank like Jackson will, and we will get to keep more players signing Oz than if we signed Jackson

I agree that Jackson is replaceable .. I like how we played fine when Wolf was out 4 games .. And Wolf out played Jackson by a lot during the second half of the season

 

[WalkerBoh]

Just so people know the latest rumors are that Oz's agent is seeking something in the $15-20 million range. Too rich for my blood.

If Oz is truly looking in that range, he better start looking for houses. Now that could also just be the agent talking, and not Osweiler. I guess we will see just how much of a family friend he really is, and how much he wants to remain with Denver. As for RG3, that should be a nonstarter. Coaches have gone on record that he's lazy when it comes to film study, and can be a locker room cancer. No thank you on that combo.

 

[58crash]

Browns terminate contracts of Randy Starks, Jim Dray

This is why anyone with half a brain stays away from team like Cleveland

 

[58crash]

I am sure Denver's ears perked up with these cut's .

 

[cdumler7]

I am sure Denver's ears perked up with these cut's .

I would say other than finding great late 1st round talent for the defense Elway's next greatest talent as a GM or at least ability to listen to his scouts is in finding those bargain bin players.

A guy I would keep an eye on is Nick Fairley. He is going to be cheaper than Malik and is a guy that Elway loved in the 2011 draft. He was about ready to trade the rest of our draft to move up and get the guy. Mike DeVito, Henry Melton, Kendall Reyes (another guy that hasn't quite lived up to the hype). There actually is a decent DT/DE class for FA's that I could see Elway going after one then drafting one. With Malik referring to the Broncos in past tense every time he speaks to the media these days it just sounds like he is ready to move on.

 

[58crash]

He is a Raider in waiting ..

 

[58crash]

Hope they get in a bidding war for him if he goes there

Carolina maybe ?

 

[cdumler7]

He is a Raider in waiting ..

That is what I am afraid of. My guess is the Bears and Raiders will be some of the top guys going after our players. Although I will say last year they both had a chance at our guys and passed on them. Seems like they knew what the Broncos knew in that many times on a Championship Caliber team the players look much better than they are because they are surrounded by so much talent.

 

[cdumler7]

Hope they get in a bidding war for him if he goes there

Carolina maybe ?

Carolina is pretty tight against the Cap with needing to re-sign Josh Norman. I doubt they go after any other high priced guys.

I'm going to call it right now in that Nick Fairley is a Bronco by the end of week 1 of Free Agency.

 

[58crash]

That is what I am afraid of. My guess is the Bears and Raiders will be some of the top guys going after our players. Although I will say last year they both had a chance at our guys and passed on them. Seems like they knew what the Broncos knew in that many times on a Championship Caliber team the players look much better than they are because they are surrounded by so much talent.

I agree but Jackson is one of those type that both Fox and JDR are going to want with all there might