The Sword Has Two Sharp Edges

[Yankee Traveler]

Broncos fined, lose draft pick over salary cap violation

What, 17...18 years ago???

 

[Yankee Traveler]

He did okay with Moss and AB for his one game

That's because Tom said "I just throw it as hard as I can and Randy runs under it".

 

[YankeeRebel]

That's because Tom said "I just throw it as hard as I can and Randy runs under it".

Well there was more to it than that. Still does not negate the fact saftie's are free to double team our sub par receivers because they know we have know team speed.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

No shit, Dick Tracy.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

NE has always been best when they've had great route runners with better than average speed. David Givens, Deion Branch, David Patten, Danny Amendola all come to mind. Brady could depend on them to run exact routes and just throw the ball and they were there. The problem today is that these guys coming out of college are not disciplined enough and it takes at least two years to even 'start' to be in the same book, let alone the same page with Brady.

Hmmmmm, agree with some of this like yes TB 12 and the Pats do well with precise/shifty short guys. That's why I mentioned the new focus of NE signing all these guys 6' + now.

But not sure I'd say they had better than average speed.

Branch loved him as a player 5'-9" ran a 4.47
Givens 6' ran a 4.57
Patten averaged just over 3 catches a game.
Amendola 5'10" and another 4.58 guy


Which further bolsters my point NE doesn't need a burner type WR especially if it's an expensive FA or an early draft pick.

Stay with the short quick guys. Blow your wad on an Olineman or a TE or both. One through FA and one or two from the draft.

Go Pats

 

[NWPATSFAN]

What, 17...18 years ago???

I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like Elway pissed off Goodell the Fuhrer.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Well there was more to it than that. Still does not negate the fact saftie's are free to double team our sub par receivers because they know we have know team speed.

Why double team sub par receivers why not blitz and pressure the QB?

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

I also think it's not about a top tier speed WR, he could be very middle of the pack IMO. Just a go to make the safety have to cover. Toss him a few bones once in a while just a dude to keep defenses honest.

I envision a guy that can bring some of the dimension that Hill and Hardman give KC. Brady obviously can’t sling it downfield like Mahomes (though he’s historically a much better deep passer than his reputation suggests), but having a guy that safeties have to pay attention to, that corners have to give cushion to, and is a threat to go to the house any time the ball is in their hands would do a ton to open things up for the other receivers currently on the roster IMO.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I envision a guy that can bring some of the dimension that Hill and Hardman give KC. Brady obviously can’t sling it downfield like Mahomes (though he’s historically a much better deep passer than his reputation suggests), but having a guy that safeties have to pay attention to, that corners have to give cushion to, and is a threat to go to the house any time the ball is in their hands would do a ton to open things up for the other receivers currently on the roster IMO.

Minus Moss when has NE really ever had that type of deep threat that teams needed to game plan for? It briefs well but it just isn't based on any factual numbers. NE has done pretty well 18 of the 20 years they've had Brady and his lack of a deep threat.

I'll meet you half way. If BB could go draft a speedy kick off/punt returner who could keep a D honest, even if he only gets a couple plays on offense a game I'd be happy with that. BB replace Bolden or Ebner with a return specialist. The last one I recall was Megget? Sure was nice having that threat like that. Gunner seems a little reckless back there and doesn't have that kind of speed. The limited carries he did have he was taking a lot of hits and didn't seem to be making great decisions on whether to fair catch or not?

 

[YankeeRebel]

I envision a guy that can bring some of the dimension that Hill and Hardman give KC. Brady obviously can’t sling it downfield like Mahomes (though he’s historically a much better deep passer than his reputation suggests), but having a guy that safeties have to pay attention to, that corners have to give cushion to, and is a threat to go to the house any time the ball is in their hands would do a ton to open things up for the other receivers currently on the roster IMO.

Brady Brady Brady I get that we all keep referring to Brady but I don't care who the QB is we need speed period

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Brady Brady Brady I get that we all keep referring to Brady but I don't care who the QB is we need speed period

Why?
Is it because speed has brought so many winning seasons to NE?
Or you just can't back off this speed thing?

 

[Southieinnc]

What, 17...18 years ago???

Just jerking Dumlers chain.....

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Brady Brady Brady I get that we all keep referring to Brady but I don't care who the QB is we need speed period

Just being pragmatic about who is most likely to be this team’s QB next year. But otherwise obviously I agree with you this team needs to get faster on offense.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Why?
Is it because speed has brought so many winning seasons to NE?
Or you just can't back off this speed thing?

Looking at what’s currently rostered on this team for skill position players, their draft pick capital, and cap space, can you come up with another solution to improve the offense that’s better than adding speed besides “we’ve never done it that way before?”

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Minus Moss when has NE really ever had that type of deep threat that teams needed to game plan for? It briefs well but it just isn't based on any factual numbers. NE has done pretty well 18 of the 20 years they've had Brady and his lack of a deep threat.

I'll meet you half way. If BB could go draft a speedy kick off/punt returner who could keep a D honest, even if he only gets a couple plays on offense a game I'd be happy with that. BB replace Bolden or Ebner with a return specialist. The last one I recall was Megget? Sure was nice having that threat like that. Gunner seems a little reckless back there and doesn't have that kind of speed. The limited carries he did have he was taking a lot of hits and didn't seem to be making great decisions on whether to fair catch or not?

Bill has attempted multiple times to draft a speedster. Bethel comes to mind and I know there was at least another.
They didn't pan out. He has also traded or picked up FA speedsters. Moss was the most successful, but he is arguably the best deep threat all time and many would say best WR of all time, even with only one trick. No, I'm not trying to start a Moss vs Rice argument. Patterson, Cook, Dorsett, Stallworth most recently with less success than Moss. I would have rather seen bill keep Patterson over Dorsett last year as he was a dynamic Returner with ability out of the backfield to complement his (limited) receiving ability.

 

[BigKen]

Patten averaged just over 3 catches a game.

In 2004 Patten had 60 catches for 800 yards and 8 TDs.

He wasn't fast, just seemed to be where Brady needed him to be. Died like wild flower after leaving the Pats.

 

[Southieinnc]

Bill has attempted multiple times to draft a speedster. Bethel comes to mind and I know there was at least another.
They didn't pan out. He has also traded or picked up FA speedsters. Moss was the most successful, but he is arguably the best deep threat all time and many would say best WR of all time, even with only one trick. No, I'm not trying to start a Moss vs Rice argument. Patterson, Cook, Dorsett, Stallworth most recently with less success than Moss. I would have rather seen bill keep Patterson over Dorsett last year as he was a dynamic Returner with ability out of the backfield to complement his (limited) receiving ability.

At the time, I thought keeping Dorsett over Patterson was the smart thing to do.
Now I wish we had a playmaker like Patterson.
I still believe that Josh is not sing Dorsett properly but we may not know until Dorsett or Josh go to another team.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

In 2004 Patten had 60 catches for 800 yards and 8 TDs.

He wasn't fast, just seemed to be where Brady needed him to be. Died like wild flower after leaving the Pats.

Patten could fly.

“Patten impressed the New York Giants after running a 4.27 in the 40-yard dash at a University of South Carolina NFL workout in March 1997“

*UPDATE*Great Read On David Patten

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Looking at what’s currently rostered on this team for skill position players, their draft pick capital, and cap space, can you come up with another solution to improve the offense that’s better than adding speed besides “we’ve never done it that way before?”

20 years of success without a speedy WR would back my point.

I've said many times NE needs a quality TE and to strengthen the Oline. Brady or any other QB getting constantly pressured won't allow a speedy WR to get open anyway unless you want to see a NE QB throwing the old chuck and duck? Is that a better FO plan then improving the Oline and or TE position?

There is talent at WR. Edelman goes without saying. Harry and especially Meyers have proven themselves when given the chance. Dorsett is Dorsett, if they replace him I won't lose sleep.

Again like I mentioned if all you want is speed you can find that in the late rounds. No Oline and Brady's diminishing skills due to age aren't going to fix this offense because they broke the bank on a speed guy or wasted their first round pick on one. No second rounder as it stands and a couple 3rds once the comp picks are sorted out.

I wouldn't mind seeing Amendola back if the price was right. Shifty little receivers are much more complimentary to this team. A speedy guy without all the complimentary tools is like a pitcher who can throw 100mph yet has no movement on the ball.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

In 2004 Patten had 60 catches for 800 yards and 8 TDs.

He wasn't fast, just seemed to be where Brady needed him to be. Died like wild flower after leaving the Pats.

You're correct he wasn't fast. Nor was he anything to write home about. A nice complimentary receiver but not a number one and certainly not a burner. I only mentioned him as someone brought his name into this conversation.

It was actually 2002 not 2004 when he had 61 catches. He had one decent year if you go strictly by the number of passes he caught. He also was targeted 120 times that year with 5 receiving TDs and 2 rushing TDs.

2004 he had 44 catches on 91 targets with 7 receiving TDs and 1 rush TD.

During his career in NE he averaged 3.1 catches a game and a 49.8 catch %.