The future of the offensive line

[MrS]

would you have wanted to keep sweezy for $6.5m per year? currently the 13th highest paid G. PFF has him ranked 32nd best, exactly average.

 

[dude82]

My opinion of Cable has evolved this year with some perspective and the knowledge that the Seahawks intend to keep this group intact as much as possible going forward. There have been many reasons for the inconsistent to poor play of the offensive line over the years, Cable being one of many. Now that they seem to have settled on a group that they (he) like(s), the continuity should be better than it's been in years. Bringing somebody else in now could mean that they'd be resetting the learning curve if they kept the players they have now, but brought in someone who teaches a different scheme; or it could more likely mean yet another reshuffle because the new guy is installing a new scheme and the players we have now don't fit. Either way, the continuity would most likely get messed with again with a change in coaches. There was a time to do it if they were gonna do it without rocking the boat too much. Now that they seem to have found a combo they like, it would definitely rock the boat to dump him.

 

[MrS]

I get the continuity thing, but I think we have to find a RT, gilliam is really terrible. If we make only one change it has to be that one

 

[Screamin12th]

some are forgetting a big point also. Cable was brought in to install the zone blocking scheme. This group played better in some games where they switched to man blocking. This was brought up on NFL.com. Cable wants big strong guys ( these types are not suited for zone scheme but are for Man Scheme) where the zone scheme is built normally around lighter quicker Olineman who can move.

want to see what a good oline coach can do for you? look at Altanta. They went from bottom of the pack to top of the pack in oline ranking, Chris Morgan was one of the biggest reasons they made the Superbowl. he was brought in to help improve the running attack and protection of Matt Ryan they went from 26th to top 6 the past two years. THATS how you coach up a oline.

You can't Cherry pick and say Sweezey was a success so Cable is. The hawks have drafted more Olineman than any other team since Cable has been here other than the 49ers. THAT'S RIGHT there is what you have to look at. With so much capital spent on improving the Oline the past 6 years and what have we seen? Consistent bottom of the league results is what we have seen.

Is there talent on this Oline? I believe there is a LOT of talent here on the oline and with the right coaching i think we could have a top 15 Oline. WITH THE RIGHT COACHING! right now we don't have the right Coaching on the Oline.

 

[chf]

And as some of us have said ad fucking nauseum, if you bring in either

1. top of his game vet coach
2. Young up and coming savant

then gas Cable.

But stop asking to make changes just to fucking make changes, particularly IN SEASON changes, which only horrible franchises do.

Just stop it already.

AGAIN, if Cable is so shitty, then P+J are incompetent also.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

And as some of us have said ad fucking nauseum, if you bring in either

1. top of his game vet coach
2. Young up and coming savant

then gas Cable.

But stop asking to make changes just to fucking make changes, particularly IN SEASON changes, which only horrible franchises do.

Just stop it already.

AGAIN, if Cable is so shitty, then P+J are incompetent also.

Not incompetent, but loyal to their coaches.

 

[chf]

Not incompetent, but loyal to their coaches.

Parsing words. If Cable IS THAT BAD, then J+P are incompetent. If a coach is THAT BAD, and they stay loyal to him, then THEY'RE that bad.

Or, maybe, just maybe, he's not that bad. Maybe, just maybe, he's made chicken salad out of chicken shit, and helped get this franchise its first Lombardi trophy. Maybe, just maybe, in the hands of most other O-line coaches, we'd be MUCH WORSE.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Parsing words. If Cable IS THAT BAD, then J+P are incompetent. If a coach is THAT BAD, and they stay loyal to him, then THEY'RE that bad.

Or, maybe, just maybe, he's not that bad. Maybe, just maybe, he's made chicken salad out of chicken shit, and helped get this franchise its first Lombardi trophy. Maybe, just maybe, in the hands of most other O-line coaches, we'd be MUCH WORSE.

I have my ups and downs about Cable like everyone else but this past season it wouldn't have mattered who was coaching them. Now saying that, I expect to see improvements seeing this group should all becoming back. If they're bottom 5 again, then I say move on.

 

[chf]

I have my ups and downs about Cable like everyone else but this past season it wouldn't have mattered who was coaching them. Now saying that, I expect to see improvements seeing this group should all becoming back. If they're bottom 5 again, then I say move on.

And that would be a very reasonable position to take. Again, I'm A-OK with hiring someone else. Just have a plan to do so, and do it in the off-season.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

And that would be a very reasonable position to take. Again, I'm A-OK with hiring someone else. Just have a plan to do so, and do it in the off-season.

Here's a plan I would like to see if o-line fails. Take a look into the teams that have top ranked o-lines like Dallas for example and obviously can't take their coach (lat move why leave a good thing behind) but look into sweeping up the assistant o-line coach who is ready to take the next step up.

 

[JMR]

You can't Cherry pick and say Sweezey was a success so Cable is.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone said that. Sweezy was just used as an example of someone Cable developed after someone else said Cable has never developed a single player in Seattle.

 

[chf]

Here's a plan I would like to see if o-line fails. Take a look into the teams that have top ranked o-lines like Dallas for example and obviously can't take their coach (lat move why leave a good thing behind) but look into sweeping up the assistant o-line coach who is ready to take the next step up.

Well that's why I give P+J a lot of rope. They're in charge. They've made Seattle into one of the top destinations in the NFL. Think about that for a minute. Seattle -----> destination.

That's pretty fucking amazing, considering its Siberia history.

Coaches aren't part of the salary cap. So if Seattle really wants a coach, and they put the full court Paul Allen press on him, they'll simply pay him more. What's the downside? Committed owner? Check. Rich owner? Check. Great facilities? Check. Success history? Check. Don't stand in the way of upward moves by coaches? Check. Here's a million more per year than Jerry J is offering... (your example)


Now I'd caution assuming that great O-lines are always about coaching. Dallas has a LOT invested in that line. Could there BE a guy there they could get? That would be Cable but better? Possibly. That's why you trust what you find out by talking to other football people.

I don't think P + J are incompetent in the least.

I think if Cable WAS a piece of shit walking, they'd have replaced him years ago.

But fans like simple answers, so Cable becomes the answer to all that ails the franchise - well the parts Bevell ain't responsible for.

 

[JMR]

Well that's why I give P+J a lot of rope. They're in charge. They've made Seattle into one of the top destinations in the NFL. Think about that for a minute. Seattle -----> destination.

That's pretty fucking amazing, considering its Siberia history.

Coaches aren't part of the salary cap. So if Seattle really wants a coach, and they put the full court Paul Allen press on him, they'll simply pay him more. What's the downside? Committed owner? Check. Rich owner? Check. Great facilities? Check. Success history? Check. Don't stand in the way of upward moves by coaches? Check. Here's a million more per year than Jerry J is offering... (your example)


Now I'd caution assuming that great O-lines are always about coaching. Dallas has a LOT invested in that line. Could there BE a guy there they could get? That would be Cable but better? Possibly. That's why you trust what you find out by talking to other football people.

I don't think P + J are incompetent in the least.

I think if Cable WAS a piece of shit walking, they'd have replaced him years ago.

But fans like simple answers, so Cable becomes the answer to all that ails the franchise - well the parts Bevell ain't responsible for.

One thing that is wearing on me a bit is the tendency to rely on projects on the OL using the excuse that the college game doesn't properly develop those players for the NFL game. A couple times and I get it, but I think we've dried that well up. Even if it's true that the college game isn't preparing linemen for the next level, it seems the most talent players in college would still be closer to what we need on our line than someone who is less talented or never even played OL in college.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Well that's why I give P+J a lot of rope. They're in charge. They've made Seattle into one of the top destinations in the NFL. Think about that for a minute. Seattle -----> destination.

That's pretty fucking amazing, considering its Siberia history.

Coaches aren't part of the salary cap. So if Seattle really wants a coach, and they put the full court Paul Allen press on him, they'll simply pay him more. What's the downside? Committed owner? Check. Rich owner? Check. Great facilities? Check. Success history? Check. Don't stand in the way of upward moves by coaches? Check. Here's a million more per year than Jerry J is offering... (your example)


Now I'd caution assuming that great O-lines are always about coaching. Dallas has a LOT invested in that line. Could there BE a guy there they could get? That would be Cable but better? Possibly. That's why you trust what you find out by talking to other football people.

I don't think P + J are incompetent in the least.

I think if Cable WAS a piece of shit walking, they'd have replaced him years ago.

But fans like simple answers, so Cable becomes the answer to all that ails the franchise - well the parts Bevell ain't responsible for.

No argument here, valid and fair points made.

 

[Anointed One]

would you have wanted to keep sweezy for $6.5m per year? currently the 13th highest paid G. PFF has him ranked 32nd best, exactly average.

Stay on point... We're not talking about worth... We're discussing, "developed"... Simple question... He didn't know how to play OL when he came to the NFL... Would you say that he knows how to play it now?

 

[Anointed One]

Maybe, just maybe, he's made chicken salad out of chicken shit,.

That's how I view it...

 

[chf]

One thing that is wearing on me a bit is the tendency to rely on projects on the OL using the excuse that the college game doesn't properly develop those players for the NFL game. A couple times and I get it, but I think we've dried that well up. Even if it's true that the college game isn't preparing linemen for the next level, it seems the most talent players in college would still be closer to what we need on our line than someone who is less talented or never even played OL in college.

Well sure, absolutely. And if we were a bottom-feeder, we'd have been able to sock a couple of high draft picks into the T position and been able to fix it a lot quicker.

But this year's upcoming draft is a perfect example. By the time Seattle picks, will there be any legit T 1st round prospects still available? Or will we be reaching down to a 3rd round (or even lower) talent level to draft a T at that position?

Someone started a thread a while back asking 'what does your team need?' And about 1/3 or more of the people posting in that thread listed T as a team need for the draft.

Ifedi was roundly criticized being drafted where he was because he played without his hand on the ground his entire college career.

We're not the only team who is flailing around trying to find good T talent in the draft.

If we follow our draft board and draft according to skill and talent, and NOT need, then the chances of us finding an early round T are actually getting smaller not greater.

Thus the team taking flyers on highly 'talented' but not experienced guys and trying to let Cable teach them the skills they need.

Doesn't happen in a vaccum. It's not like J+P WANT to not draft stud O line guys.

 

[chf]

That's how I view it...

Right, and to be clear, chicken salad ain't filet mignon...but it's still much better than chicken feces.

 

[MrS]

Stay on point... We're not talking about worth... We're discussing, "developed"... Simple question... He didn't know how to play OL when he came to the NFL... Would you say that he knows how to play it now?

if that is your definition of "developed" then gilliam is also "developed". just because some fool team grossly overpaid for an average at best G does not mean he is developed past his own basic talent.

Here's a plan I would like to see if o-line fails. Take a look into the teams that have top ranked o-lines like Dallas for example and obviously can't take their coach (lat move why leave a good thing behind) but look into sweeping up the assistant o-line coach who is ready to take the next step up.

or sweep out our OC and make their line coach OUR OC.

 

[JMR]

Well sure, absolutely. And if we were a bottom-feeder, we'd have been able to sock a couple of high draft picks into the T position and been able to fix it a lot quicker.

But this year's upcoming draft is a perfect example. By the time Seattle picks, will there be any legit T 1st round prospects still available? Or will we be reaching down to a 3rd round (or even lower) talent level to draft a T at that position?

Someone started a thread a while back asking 'what does your team need?' And about 1/3 or more of the people posting in that thread listed T as a team need for the draft.

Ifedi was roundly criticized being drafted where he was because he played without his hand on the ground his entire college career.

We're not the only team who is flailing around trying to find good T talent in the draft.

If we follow our draft board and draft according to skill and talent, and NOT need, then the chances of us finding an early round T are actually getting smaller not greater.

Thus the team taking flyers on highly 'talented' but not experienced guys and trying to let Cable teach them the skills they need.

Doesn't happen in a vaccum. It's not like J+P WANT to not draft stud O line guys.

Yeah, all makes sense and no disagreement. Really a minor gripe for me. I am totally fine with continually drafting toward the very end of rnd 1. My #1 hope right now is we get some continuity going with the OL and get some guys to re-up here instead of always seeing them fly after their 1st contract is up.