The 2019-20 Cleveland Cavaliers: Exhibit A for HS Players Not to Enter the NBA Draft

[dtgold88]

LOL.

You think that is close?

yes

 

[dtgold88]

Numbers never tell the story. It's a bad way to compare actual value of players. Wade was a top 5 NBA player at the time. Kyrie was somewhere in the range of top 20. That's a significant difference despite their production numbers being similar.

Like in 2017.

Player A:

23.1 PPG, 10.7 APG, 4.2 RPG, 2.0 SPG

Player B:

25.3 PPG, 6.6 APG, 4.5 RPG, 1.8 SPG.


Based on those numbers would you value those players similarly? Player A is John Wall and Player B is Steph Curry.

agree.....but I also would think it needed to be pointed out Wade was in prime of career when Lebron arrived and he regressed his last 2 years there while Kyrie was ascending and got better every year with Lebron.

Never mind Love was equivalent of Bosh and this ignores the notion the Cavs supporting cast was better as the discussion was the team, not just Kyrie/Wade

 

[dtgold88]

I agree.

In this case however, the numbers are pretty lopsided too.

Wade’s first year with LeBron was statistically close to Kyrie’s best year (still better) but close. Overall the numbers aren’t that close.

Glad to see you man, we were worried.

also glad to see him, so agree there. If you want to say numbers between Wade and Kyrie not close I disagree, but OK.

Good thing discussion was about their teams and not just the #2 guy. #3s pretty much even and Lebron's 2017 supporting cast better than anything he had in Miami IMO. Seems like for a couple years the top supporting player in Miami was Mario Chalmers.

 

[CitySushi]

agree.....but I also would think it needed to be pointed out Wade was in prime of career when Lebron arrived and he regressed his last 2 years there while Kyrie was ascending and got better every year with Lebron.

Never mind Love was equivalent of Bosh and this ignores the notion the Cavs supporting cast was better as the discussion was the team, not just Kyrie/Wade

Well they did have Ray Allen, Shane Battier, and a smattering of other really solid role players. Udonis Haslem was a good big. I don't think the Cavs had a better supporting cast, but it's not a huge gap.

 

[dtgold88]

Well they did have Ray Allen, Shane Battier, and a smattering of other really solid role players. Udonis Haslem was a good big. I don't think the Cavs had a better supporting cast, but it's not a huge gap.

They had 38-39 year old Ray Allen who was no better than Kyle Korver was for the Cavs. He was there to be a shooter and Korver was far better than Allen was for Miami as a shooter. Battier also well past his prime. Haslem at best a dime a dozen player.

 

[tlance]

They had 38-39 year old Ray Allen who was no better than Kyle Korver was for the Cavs. He was there to be a shooter and Korver was far better than Allen was for Miami as a shooter. Battier also well past his prime. Haslem at best a dime a dozen player.

Stop it.

Ray Allen could probably still play in the league today.

He wasn’t a star during his Heat days by any stretch. But don’t compare him to Kyle Korver. Korver could shoot and was a total liability on D. Ray Allen could still play a bit.

You are clowning yourself.

 

[tlance]

agree.....but I also would think it needed to be pointed out Wade was in prime of career when Lebron arrived and he regressed his last 2 years there while Kyrie was ascending and got better every year with Lebron.

Never mind Love was equivalent of Bosh and this ignores the notion the Cavs supporting cast was better as the discussion was the team, not just Kyrie/Wade

If you want to compare Wade after he regressed to where Kyrie is now, then Kyrie is a lot better.

That isn’t the topic.

 

[dtgold88]

Stop it.

Ray Allen could probably still play in the league today.

He wasn’t a star during his Heat days by any stretch. But don’t compare him to Kyle Korver. Korver could shoot and was a total liability on D. Ray Allen could still play a bit.

You are clowning yourself.

sorry, sport. 38-39 year old Ray Allen is not the guy you are thinking of. He was brought in to be a shooter to spread floor for Lebron and Wade and was not as good as Korver at doing that job.

 

[dtgold88]

If you want to compare Wade after he regressed to where Kyrie is now, then Kyrie is a lot better.

That isn’t the topic.

stay focused, my friend. I don't even think you remember the topic.

No one made that comparison, BTW. But Kyrie by 2017 was comparable to Wade. Want to say not as good as top Wade I wont disagree. But Love is comparable to Bosh (maybe better). the role players on the Cavs, IMO, were better.

The OVERALL supporting cast WAS the topic. You're welcome....now let's see the obligatory SportsHoopla "ya got me/I cannot refute what you said" facepalm.

 

[Wamu]

 

[tlance]

@Shanemansj13

why is it that just about every Cavalier fan is a delusional homer?

I know a couple Cleveland fans in real life and they are the same.

Do they put something in the water up there?

 

[Shanemansj13]

@Shanemansj13

why is it that just about every Cavalier fan is a delusional homer?

I know a couple Cleveland fans in real life and they are the same.

Do they put something in the water up there?

One championship does wonders if they were before the ship too...I dont know what to tell you lol

 

[tlance]

One championship does wonders if they were before the ship too...I dont know what to tell you lol

At least we got you to keep it real.

I appreciate it!

 

[dtgold88]

@Shanemansj13

why is it that just about every Cavalier fan is a delusional homer?

I know a couple Cleveland fans in real life and they are the same.

Do they put something in the water up there?

why is it you think your opinions as facts are factual and ignore anything to the contrary.

In FACT this was about the overall team, not Wade and Kyrie. You seem to have forgotten that. No biggie. I'm here to help. also think the guy you used for a lifeline agrees Love is on the same level as Bosh (maybe even better, but don't recall what he said) while you think no chance.

weird you want to ignore the rest of the role players.

Carry on.

 

[dtgold88]

One championship does wonders if they were before the ship too...I dont know what to tell you lol

correct me if wrong, but didn't you disagree with him that Bosh was far better than Love?

do you also think the Miami role players were better?

 

[tlance]

why is it you think your opinions as facts are factual and ignore anything to the contrary.

In FACT this was about the overall team, not Wade and Kyrie. You seem to have forgotten that. No biggie. I'm here to help. also think the guy you used for a lifeline agrees Love is on the same level as Bosh (maybe even better, but don't recall what he said) while you think no chance.

weird you want to ignore the rest of the role players.

Carry on.

I don’t agree with @Shanemansj13 on every point. But he is reasonable.

You come down on the side of overvaluing any player to don a Cavalier jersey when compared to other nuetral posters. Every single time. Without fail.

Your original point was that Cleveland had a better supporting cast than Miami. That may have been true if you take Cleveland’s very best (2016 or 2017) against Miami’s worst (2014), but it wasn’t true overall.

But I don’t care as much about that point as I do about the Kyrie Wade thing. At least the team comp is somewhat debatable.

Kyrie vs Wade isn’t debatable and it isn’t close. And the fact that you agree Wade is better pretty much 100% proves that it isn’t close. Because guess what?

If it actually were close, you would be making the case that Kyrie was better.

And I don’t care to get into a role player debate. I do believe Miami’s were definitely better. But I’m not going to waste my time arguing that with you because you can’t be rational when it comes to discussing the Cavs.

 

[dtgold88]

I don’t agree with @Shanemansj13 on every point. But he is reasonable.

You come down on the side of overvaluing any player to don a Cavalier jersey when compared to other nuetral posters. Every single time. Without fail.

Your original point was that Cleveland had a better supporting cast than Miami. That may have been true if you take Cleveland’s very best (2016 or 2017) against Miami’s worst (2014), but it wasn’t true overall.

But I don’t care as much about that point as I do about the Kyrie Wade thing. At least the team comp is somewhat debatable.

Kyrie vs Wade isn’t debatable and it isn’t close. And the fact that you agree Wade is better pretty much 100% proves that it isn’t close. Because guess what?

If it actually were close, you would be making the case that Kyrie was better.

And I don’t care to get into a role player debate. I do believe Miami’s were definitely better. But I’m not going to waste my time arguing that with you because you can’t be rational when it comes to discussing the Cavs.

wow is this you being you and thank you for the comedy as it's always needed in these times.

My original comment was talking about the Cavs very best team IMO. The 2017 team. And, yes, Kyrie and Wade are close. Wade was much better the first 2 years but he regressed. Kyrie was ascending. Funny you even said in an earlier post today in another thread how important it is to have your #2 and #3 be guys who could shoot and spread the floor for your #1. Guess who can shoot better between Kyrie and Wade from oustide (or Love and Bosh). Gotta love when you kick your own ass.

Of course you don't care to get into role players as the Cavs were better. But tell me again how great 38-39 year old Ray Allen was.

Gonna call a lifeline, or is it the SportsHoopla "I cannot refute what you said" facepalm time?

 

[tlance]

wow is this you being you and thank you for the comedy as it's always needed in these times.

My original comment was talking about the Cavs very best team IMO. The 2017 team. And, yes, Kyrie and Wade are close. Wade was much better the first 2 years but he regressed. Kyrie was ascending. Funny you even said in an earlier post today in another thread how important it is to have your #2 and #3 be guys who could shoot and spread the floor for your #1. Guess who can shoot better between Kyrie and Wade from oustide (or Love and Bosh). Gotta love when you kick your own ass.

Of course you don't care to get into role players as the Cavs were better. But tell me again how great 38-39 year old Ray Allen was.

Gonna call a lifeline, or is it the SportsHoopla "I cannot refute what you said" facepalm time?

I have said multiple times that Wade and Lebron didn’t fit together very well.

And that is not how the argument started. It started with the debate of whether or not Cleveland was a super team. And I said they weren’t because they didn’t have a second superstar.

Miami did have 2 superstars when LeBron went there.

You are changing narratives here. I don’t care what you were arguing with someone else. I was always talking about why Miami was a super team and Cleveland not. And that all boils down to Wade vs Kyrie.

 

[dtgold88]

I have said multiple times that Wade and Lebron didn’t fit together very well.

And that is not how the argument started. It started with the debate of whether or not Cleveland was a super team. And I said they weren’t because they didn’t have a second superstar.

Miami did have 2 superstars when LeBron went there.

You are changing narratives here. I don’t care what you were arguing with someone else. I was always talking about why Miami was a super team and Cleveland not. And that all boils down to Wade vs Kyrie.

Narrative never changed for me. My argument has always been the 2017 Cavs' team was better than his best Miami team IMO. And IMO better than most teams this millenium other than GS and LA.

Being a super team is more than #2 vs. #2 to me. Or at least comparing them (if 1 is the same). You disagree? Cool.

 

[tlance]

Narrative never changed for me. My argument has always been the 2017 Cavs' team was better than his best Miami team IMO. And IMO better than most teams this millenium other than GS and LA.

Being a super team is more than #2 vs. #2 to me. Or at least comparing them (if 1 is the same). You disagree? Cool.

Well fine.

You can think that if you want. I will grant you that Cleveland’s pieces fit together better. But talent wise Miami had more and they were better, IMO.

Because they were really good on both ends of the court.