Take your pick: Duncan or Kobe

[Shanemansj13]

True but thats not Kobes fault. If Shaq had been on the Spurs he would have been the primary option on all those teams too.

Well yeah, but I think he is fine with 3 more rings added to the 2 that he got being the main later in his career. You bet your ass, he wants to equal the 3 with Shaq, with 3 by himself!

 

[lakersrule]

Too bad that is considered the signature play because that definitely was not the norm. I remember that play more as a revelation that just maybe Kobe could actually see something else besides the hoop.

I'm not saying passing was Kobe's first choice, but he did lead the Lakers in APG most of those years.

 

[lakersrule]

The reason for mentioning that play is to illustrate how it wasn't simply Shaq getting double-teamed leaving Kobe open shots. Defenses were forced to pay attention to and help out on Kobe when creating from the perimeter freeing up others including Shaq.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

All things considered I want Duncan, end of story.

He is a great player, great teammate, his BBall IQ is higher, he is easier to coach and he has no off court issues.

Kobe is a great player, maybe even better than Duncan on the floor, but after that he is in a down ward spiral when we compare the 2.

 

[Shanemansj13]

While we are on the subject of the Lakers.

When I was younger I LOVED watchn the Lake crew w/ Shaq and Kobe. They were exciting to watch. It is rare that pple say a big man that mostly dunks is exciting to watch, but you didn't know if Shaq was gonna dunk on someone, make a great pass, or block the shot outta someone.

He was the main reason I loved watchn though and the young Kobe with the fro was pretty flashy too!

 

[shitsho]

You also have to consider style points. Duncan has about as much flavor as a piece of wet cardboard so he gets zero points in that category. But shouldn't Kobe be awarded negative points for plagiarizing Jordan? its one thing to steal a guys moves but to steal the way he walks, talks, and chews bubblegum? I give Kobe -5 points for that.

 

[rmilia1]

Correct me if I am wrong but Duncan was the #1 option the minute he came into the league and robinson stepped aside for the good of the team. Thats all I'm saying. I think its very pertinent to the conversation of who can carry a team. Everyone is whining about how unfair it is that Kobe played with Shaq. Well guess what? If Shaq was not there Kobe would not have an additional 3 rings.

You dont know that. Kobe already won 2 rings with a good big man ( Gasol ) saying he couldnt have won 3 other rings with a different big guy is false logic. Just because Shaq was GREAT doesnt mean a just good big guy wouldnt have led to 3 other rings for Kobe those years.

 

[shitsho]

I'm not saying passing was Kobe's first choice, but he did lead the Lakers in APG most of those years.

I was unaware of that. Really? Maybe he was not as much of a ball hog as I remember.

 

[shitsho]

[/B]

You dont know that. Kobe already won 2 rings with a good big man ( Gasol ) saying he couldnt have won 3 other rings with a different big guy is false logic. Just because Shaq was GREAT doesnt mean a just good big guy wouldnt have led to 3 other rings for Kobe those years.

They would have never gotten past the reason for this thread. Duncans Spurs would have killed the Lakers without Shaq.

 

[lakersrule]

You also have to consider style points. Duncan has about as much flavor as a piece of wet cardboard so he gets zero points in that category. But shouldn't Kobe be awarded negative points for plagiarizing Jordan? its one thing to steal a guys moves but to steal the way he walks, talks, and chews bubblegum? I give Kobe -5 points for that.

He saw too many of those Gatorade commercials!

 

[HizzleRocker]

Correct me if I am wrong but Duncan was the #1 option the minute he came into the league and robinson stepped aside for the good of the team. Thats all I'm saying. I think its very pertinent to the conversation of who can carry a team. Everyone is whining about how unfair it is that Kobe played with Shaq. Well guess what? If Shaq was not there Kobe would not have an additional 3 rings.

I already posted the stats. In 2/3 Shaq and Kobe titles, Kobe basically scored the same points as Shaq, but had more assists and steals. This was also the era of hack a Shaq, so the offense and ball always ran through Kobe. Kobe was also always the leader down the stretch. In the 4th, it was Kobe's team to lead.

Not sure how this can qualify as a true #2 option.

I'm not a big believer in discounting titles from a true stud and leader on a team. Now if we were talking about Robert Horry that's another topic. But, if you are going to discount Kobe's in 2001 and 2002, then the same rules have to apply to Duncan in at least 2005 and 2007.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I was unaware of that. Really? Maybe he was not as much of a ball hog as I remember.

When he was younger he would shoot a bit, but he did pass much more. The Lakers had a bunch of weapons and he would feed him and Shaq.

That is part of reason I like the young Kobe. It was just fun watching him and Shaq have fun out their just playn together out thar.

 

[lakersrule]

I was unaware of that. Really? Maybe he was not as much of a ball hog as I remember.

In 2004 it was Payton who led the team in APG. I believe Odom did one year as well. The majority of his career, though, Kobe has been the team leader in APG.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Shaq didn't win anything without Phil Jackson or Pat Riley. He didn't win anything before Kobe became a real star and got real minutes with Van Exel and Eddie Jones, he didn't win with Orlando. He didn't win anything without a D Wade or a Kobe.

 

[shitsho]

Not sure how this can qualify as a true #2 option.

Pretty simple. Ask Phil Jackson why he wanted Kobe traded and was always yelling at him to give it to the #1 option first. The answer is.... Kobe was the #2 option. Its amazing to me that people have glamorized Kobe to the point that they even dispute that. Its one thing to recognize that a player has skills and Kobe does but to rewrite history?

 

[shitsho]

In 2004 it was Payton who led the team in APG. I believe Odom did one year as well. The majority of his career, though, Kobe has been the team leader in APG.

Now that I think about it it makes sense because of the Triangle.

 

[geneh_33]

Shaq didn't win anything without Phil Jackson or Pat Riley. He didn't win anything before Kobe became a real star and got real minutes with Van Exel and Eddie Jones, he didn't win with Orlando. He didn't win anything without a D Wade or a Kobe.

Well, I know of only one guy who could win won all by himself. And he's retired.

 

[HizzleRocker]

Pretty simple. Ask Phil Jackson why he wanted Kobe traded and was always yelling at him to give it to the #1 option first. The answer is.... Kobe was the #2 option. Its amazing to me that people have glamorized Kobe to the point that they even dispute that. Its one thing to recognize that a player has skills and Kobe does but to rewrite history?

That's a very narrow definition of #1 option you have there. If you are talking about strategically where the ball was supposed to go inside first because of size difference - then yes, Shaq was the #1 option.

Now if you are talking about the best player and leader of the team - that is another question. Kobe was the leader in the 4th quarter, and they were both #1s in talent.

I remember a quote from Shaq himself, saying that while he was the most dominant player - Kobe was the best player.

 

[shitsho]

Shaq didn't win anything without Phil Jackson or Pat Riley. He didn't win anything before Kobe became a real star and got real minutes with Van Exel and Eddie Jones, he didn't win with Orlando. He didn't win anything without a D Wade or a Kobe.

He went to the Finals before he ever became a Laker and also won a ring when he went to Miami. I wouldnt exactly call that not winning anything. However, the discussion is not really about Shaq and Kobe its Duncan and Kobe. Who has consistently been the better leader and go to guy?

 

[shitsho]

That's a very narrow definition of #1 option you have there. If you are talking about strategically where the ball was supposed to go inside first because of size difference - then yes, Shaq was the #1 option.

Now if you are talking about the best player and leader of the team - that is another question. Kobe was the leader in the 4th quarter, and they were both #1s in talent.

I remember a quote from Shaq himself, saying that while he was the most dominant player - Kobe was the best player.

Lets say your 4th quarter scenario is true. Who was the leader the other 3 quarters? Does Kobes 1 quarter of leadership suddenly place him on equal footing with Shaq? How quickly we forget that they named a condition after Shaq where the opposing center would become ill the night before having to face him. Shaq was the most dominant center of his era. kobe should thank his lucky stars he was allowed to develop while Shaq shouldered the load.