Take your pick: Duncan or Kobe

[shitsho]

Kobe perfected his craft with his relentless work ethic. You get better by practicing. Kobe got better due to the 1,000s of shots taken during the offseason. Giving Shaq credit for Kobe's game really does a disservice to the time Kobe put into working on it.

I'm pretty sure he practiced. One thing I do admire about Kobe is his work ethic. He also got to practice in the game with Shaq as the focal point of the other teams defense. Thats all I am saying.

 

[Sman2011]

Haha.... first 2 were bad and 3rd was good.
4th was awful
5th was bad
6th was good
7th was avg. to bad.


7 Finals....2.5 good 4.5 bad.

Game 7 in 2010. Lakers went to the line 20 times in the 4th quarter alone and 37 times total. How does one lead a comeback in the 3rd when he was 4-18 going into the 4th? He went 2-6 in the 4th and 6 of those 10pts in the 4th came from the line. I'm sure his game 7 put him over the top in the MVP voting....:rollseyes:


Like I said, when it comes to Kobe, his fans want to talk regular season and what he did leading up to the Finals. Cause there isn't much good that happened from him in the series to talk about after the Finals were over.

I usually don't respond to doors, aside from being a moron he has an avator of a dude in leather pants...
Here's why I don't respond to this gay moron....He claims kobe had a bad finals series against the Sixers....Ok lets look at the 4 games the Lakers won.

Game 2 11-23, 8 rebs, 6 assts, 2stls, 2 blocks, 31 pts

Game 3 13-30, 6 rebs, 3asts, 2 stls, 32 pts

Game 4 6-13 10 rebs, 9 assts 19 pts,,,

Game 5 7-18, 12 rebs, 6 asts, 10-11 fts, 26 pts

So a guard who averages 27 pts, 9 rebs, 6asts in the 4 wins did not have a good series.

Just kill yourself, Doors...Or better yet, get the fuck off these boards. You're an idiot.

 

[lakersrule]

I'm pretty sure he practiced. One thing I do admire about Kobe is his work ethic. He also got to practice in the game with Shaq as the focal point of the other teams defense. Thats all I am saying.

No, what you said is that Shaq is the reason Kobe's game improved. You never mentioned his work ethic until now.

Kobe played in games. He wasn't out there practicing shots. Yes, he definitely benefited from defenses keying in on Shaq (btw defenses did pay a lot of attention to Kobe as well). He wouldn't have been as successful though if not for the time he put into working on his game.

 

[Shanemansj13]

This is interesting. Kobe vs Lebron matchups. That played each other 19 times. All-around gane factoring in FG pct and efficiency, Kobe only had 5 maybe 6 games that he played better than Lebron. That leaves 13 or 14 games Lebron OUTPLAYED Kobe head-to-head.

Kobe thrives on shooting many times, but not on efficiency that hurts the team. Don't get me wrong if he is on, he is almost unstoppable.

LeBron James vs. Kobe Bryant | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[Sman2011]

This is interesting. Kobe vs Lebron matchups. That played each other 19 times. All-around gane factoring in FG pct and efficiency, Kobe only had 5 maybe 6 games that he played better than Lebron. That leaves 13 or 14 games Lebron OUTPLAYED Kobe head-to-head.

Kobe thrives on shooting many times, but not on efficiency that hurts the team. Don't get me wrong if he is on, he is almost unstoppable.

LeBron James vs. Kobe Bryant | Basketball-Reference.com

Yawn, regular season matchups...Boring...Plus they don't guard each other...

How do they do in Big games?

 

[Jims_Doors]

I usually don't respond to doors, aside from being a moron he has an avator of a dude in leather pants...
Here's why I don't respond to this gay moron....He claims kobe had a bad finals series against the Sixers....Ok lets look at the 4 games the Lakers won.

Game 2 11-23, 8 rebs, 6 assts, 2stls, 2 blocks, 31 pts

Game 3 13-30, 6 rebs, 3asts, 2 stls, 32 pts

Game 4 6-13 10 rebs, 9 assts 19 pts,,,

Game 5 7-18, 12 rebs, 6 asts, 10-11 fts, 26 pts

So a guard who averages 27 pts, 9 rebs, 6asts in the 4 wins did not have a good series.

Just kill yourself, Doors...Or better yet, get the fuck off these boards. You're an idiot.

Awe what's the matter Kobe lover? Of course you don't respond and want me off the boards because I shoot down your Bullshit everytime you post it.

Game 1 he went 7-22 with 15 points and as you like to point out to others... 13pts below his season avg.

Game 2 good game

Game 3 Took 30 shots to score 32pts...very impressive :rollseyes:

Game 4 scored 9pts less than his season avg. Again, that's bad according to you

Game 5 He was 39% from the field. 10pts from the line and another 5 in garbage time.

Like I said...bad series.

 

[Kold]

So basically when you say, well Kobe did good against the West but it's all about the Finals and Shaq won the mvp's......you basically say it was 1A and 1B. You STILL have not proven to me that Kobe didn't dominate some of those series because you can't. That's right, I'm callin all of you on this, you can try but you can't, so you dance around every point we bring because your stuck on this batman/robin thing. You just can't bring yourselves to say it. It comes down to this, find me every series throughout that run, and prove to me that Kobe did not dominate as the lead dog in some of those series(1A and 1B). Until then, your points are sort of meaningless because all you are doing is agreeing with me that, Shaq was the lead dog in some series, and Kobe was the lead dog in some series(1A and 1B)....and please don't come to me with this "he drew attention for Kobe, that's the only reason why blah, blah,blah". Not that I'm comparing the players per se, but guess what, Kareem drew attention from Magic as did Magic for Kareem, even James Worthy won the Finals MVP one of those years, it's the GAME OF BASKETBALL. When you have 2 superstars, they're supposed to compliment EACH OTHER. Kobe benefited from the most dominant, and Shaq benefited from 3 point shooters and Kobe's perimeter game. Since you don't want to give credit to Kobe, someone please dispell my point as to why Shaq benefitted from 3 point shooters(I'd really like to hear why Shaq didn't benefit from this).

 

[Kold]

You know what, I'm sure I'll still just get the same ol same retort and somebody will just stand steadfast on the batman/robin thing, still can't be proven for every title however......so I atleast want a retort on how Shaq didn't benefit from Kobe and the 3 point snipers he had surronding him.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Guys like Rick Fox and Robert Horry are no joke.

 

[shitsho]

No, what you said is that Shaq is the reason Kobe's game improved. You never mentioned his work ethic until now.

Kobe played in games. He wasn't out there practicing shots. Yes, he definitely benefited from defenses keying in on Shaq (btw defenses did pay a lot of attention to Kobe as well). He wouldn't have been as successful though if not for the time he put into working on his game.

Maybe you just misunderstand what I am saying. You can practice all you want on your own but it has to translate to game time. Kobe did not have the same type of defensive attention paid to him as he did once Shaq left. He was allowed to perfect his craft during game time while the defense concentrated on Stopping Shaq. Opposing coaches have said it plenty of times that they wanted Kobe shooting because he had a tendency to shoot the Lakers out of the game. Do you deny this?

 

[lakersrule]

Maybe you just misunderstand what I am saying. You can practice all you want on your own but it has to translate to game time. Kobe did not have the same type of defensive attention paid to him as he did once Shaq left. He was allowed to perfect his craft during game time while the defense concentrated on Stopping Shaq. Opposing coaches have said it plenty of times that they wanted Kobe shooting because he had a tendency to shoot the Lakers out of the game. Do you deny this?

Deny what? That Shaq received a lot of defensive attention? That some coaches would rather let Kobe shoot/create from the perimeter than Shaq beat them in the post? Never have. That's not the point. I didn't misunderstand what you said....

I'm saying he developed those skills due to the attention paid to Shaq while he was there.

Players develop skills by practicing. I agree you perfect your craft during game time. You want to see what actually works. But you develop those skills on the practice court. Kobe developed his skills through the countless hours he spent practicing them. To claim someone developed their skills simply due to the presence of another player is foolish, especially someone who many consider the second best at their position.

 

[shitsho]

Deny what? That Shaq received a lot of defensive attention? That some coaches would rather let Kobe shoot/create from the perimeter than Shaq beat them in the post? Never have. That's not the point. I didn't misunderstand what you said....



Players develop skills by practicing. I agree you perfect your craft during game time. You want to see what actually works. But you develop those skills on the practice court. Kobe developed his skills through the countless hours he spent practicing them. To claim someone developed their skills simply due to the presence of another player is foolish, especially someone who many consider the second best at their position.

OK I see what you were having an issue with now.

 

[lakersrule]

Let me ask you this Monto. How do you rank these in significance of Kobe's development into the player he is:

1) Shaq
2) Genetic athletic ability
3) Relentless work ethic and practicing

 

[shitsho]

Let me ask you this Monto. How do you rank these in significance of Kobe's development into the player he is:

1) Shaq
2) Genetic athletic ability
3) Relentless work ethic and practicing

I'd say Shaq presence and Kobes work ethic were 1a and 1b. Lots of players have a work ethic. Shaq significantly shortened Kobes burn in phase. Kobes career and Tracy Mcgradys career could have easily been swapped if Mcgrady was on the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe. I actually think Mcgrady had better genetic athletic ability and was a better player if you just match raw physical talent and get rid of the teams they played for. I believe genetic athletic ability is a foundation you build on. More importantly you need practice and opportunity to make it all come together. Kobe had ample opportunity to develop faster because of Shaq being there.

 

[HizzleRocker]

Awe what's the matter Kobe lover? Of course you don't respond and want me off the boards because I shoot down your Bullshit everytime you post it.

Game 1 he went 7-22 with 15 points and as you like to point out to others... 13pts below his season avg.

Game 2 good game

Game 3 Took 30 shots to score 32pts...very impressive :rollseyes:

Game 4 scored 9pts less than his season avg. Again, that's bad according to you

Game 5 He was 39% from the field. 10pts from the line and another 5 in garbage time.

Like I said...bad series.

Got it...So:

1) Shooting 50% from the field, and basically having a triple double, and your team winning = a bad game.

2) 44% from the field, scoring 32pts, an all around game, and winning = a bad game.

3) Winning playoff games is bad if you are Kobe.

How very objective of you.

 

[ckhokie]

Got it...So:

1) Shooting 50% from the field, and basically having a triple double, and your team winning = a bad game.

2) 44% from the field, scoring 32pts, an all around game, and winning = a bad game.

3) Winning playoff games is bad if you are Kobe.

can you please expound on this?

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I'd say Shaq presence and Kobes work ethic were 1a and 1b. Lots of players have a work ethic. Shaq significantly shortened Kobes burn in phase. Kobes career and Tracy Mcgradys career could have easily been swapped if Mcgrady was on the Lakers with Shaq instead of Kobe. I actually think Mcgrady had better genetic athletic ability and was a better player if you just match raw physical talent and get rid of the teams they played for. I believe genetic athletic ability is a foundation you build on. More importantly you need practice and opportunity to make it all come together. Kobe had ample opportunity to develop faster because of Shaq being there.

How long was McGrady great and how long has Kobe been great? Case closed.

 

[Sman2011]

How long was McGrady great and how long has Kobe been great? Case closed.

And T-mac's cousin Vince Carter is more talented than lebron.

 

[tlance]

I am not a Kobe fan. I think he is selfish and spoiled.

However, his work ethic is second to none and that, along with his innate athleticism is why he developed into one of greatest players of all time. Shaq had little to do with that.

As for who is better, you are comparing apples to oranges. I don't know why you guys insist on having this conversation. They are both in the top 10 all time. Can't we leave it at that?

 

[Sman2011]

I am not a Kobe fan. I think he is selfish and spoiled.

However, his work ethic is second to none and that, along with his innate athleticism is why he developed into one of greatest players of all time. Shaq had little to do with that.

As for who is better, you are comparing apples to oranges. I don't know why you guys insist on having this conversation. They are both in the top 10 all time. Can't we leave it at that?

I don't think Duncan is top 10. That's a huge stretch...Here's 10 players right off the bat that are clearly better than Mr. Consistency...

1)MJ
2)Wilt
3)Kareem
4)Kobe
5)Magic
6)Russell
7)Bird
8)Shaq
9)Hakeem
10)Oscar Robertson

Duncan is very consistent. You want a guy to give you 20 pts, and 10 rebs every night. Tim's your guy...

You want a guy to give you 35 pts and 15 rebs, Tim's not your guy.