Take your pick: Duncan or Kobe

[lakersrule]

Pau Gasol led the Lakers in Win Shares both title years of 2009 and 2010.

That was regular season. Kobe led in Win Shares for the 2009 title. Pau for 2010.

Win shares are the deciding factor now? I guess you can't use PER to marginalize Kobe is this situation.

 

[lakersrule]

Thats what I keep telling people but most of them have on their super Kobe panties. They look at a bunch of stats and get confused because they dont recall the game situations. If I had Shaq on my team I could average 40 pts a game with them double teaming Shaq. Face it everyone. Kobe was robin to Shaqs Batman during those 3 rings and Gasol definitely saved his ass for 1 of the rings post Shaq.

No you couldn't. Do we really have to go over all this again? Shaq was the most dominant player at the time, but defenses also had to pay attention to Kobe. Kobe's success wasn't simply a factor of all the attention Shaq got. Kobe is a very good player as well. Defenses had to help on him all the time when creating from the perimeter. I know you dislike him, but you got to give him a little credit!

And how did Pau save Kobe? Was it that stellar 37.5% he shot in game 7 that save Kobe?

 

[lakersrule]

I'm saying he developed those skills due to the attention paid to Shaq while he was there.

You are saying Kobe didn't develop his skills due to all the hard work he put into practicing? He only got better due to Shaq


Hey kids. Don't worry about practicing and improving your game. Find yourselves a really good big man and he'll turn you into one of the best ever!

 

[lakersrule]

Actually 43%-45% Sman. His highest is 46.% with Shaq.

His highest FG% with Shaq was 46.9%. His highest FG% without Shaq was 46.7%. What a huge difference.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Actually 43%-45% Sman. His highest is 46.% with Shaq.

Kobe played his first three years off the bench, Shaq didn't win a title until Kobe started playing real minutes and scoring. Kobe shot a lot more 3's than Jordan and Kobe's field goal percentage from mid-range is around 48% while Jordan's is 50% career average (with Kobe's bench years and MJ's Wizard run taken out). Kobe is great all around. If Kobe was playing with LeBron instead of D Wade in the Finals it's a wrap.

 

[Sman2011]

You are saying Kobe didn't develop his skills due to all the hard work he put into practicing? He only got better due to Shaq


Hey kids. Don't worry about practicing and improving your game. Find yourselves a really good big man and he'll turn you into one of the best ever!

This is maybe the dumbest point from montsho11 yet. And he says a lot of dumb things....

So Montsho11 is saying?

A)Shaq taught Kobe how to shoot?

B)Kobe learned how to shoot ONLY because Shaq was doubled teamed?

C)Why am I wasting time, debating an idiot like montsho11?

 

[Jims_Doors]

It would be nice "while logged in" I could see the last 2 pages of this thread!!! While logged off, I can. I log in so I can reply and "nope" It won't let me see the last page of posts.

I'll log out after I hit reply and see if this went to the last page.............

Edit

Hey.....I can see the last page!!

 

[shitsho]

You are saying Kobe didn't develop his skills due to all the hard work he put into practicing? He only got better due to Shaq


Hey kids. Don't worry about practicing and improving your game. Find yourselves a really good big man and he'll turn you into one of the best ever!

More like. Hey kids with Shaq getting double and triple teamed you can go one on one and shoot practice jumpers with little resistance. It will help you later down the road when Shaq leaves.

 

[shitsho]

His highest FG% with Shaq was 46.9%. His highest FG% without Shaq was 46.7%. What a huge difference.

Look and see the progression from rookie to when Shaq left. Then he takes a dip and shoots more on the low end of his range the rest of his career. Factor in that he should have matured by then and you can see that Shaq helped his career development.

 

[shitsho]

Kobe played his first three years off the bench, Shaq didn't win a title until Kobe started playing real minutes and scoring. Kobe shot a lot more 3's than Jordan and Kobe's field goal percentage from mid-range is around 48% while Jordan's is 50% career average (with Kobe's bench years and MJ's Wizard run taken out). Kobe is great all around. If Kobe was playing with LeBron instead of D Wade in the Finals it's a wrap.

I dont think so. Kobe cant even play due to injury and at least Wade can get out there and be some kind of threat.

 

[shitsho]

This is maybe the dumbest point from montsho11 yet. And he says a lot of dumb things....

So Montsho11 is saying?

A)Shaq taught Kobe how to shoot?

B)Kobe learned how to shoot ONLY because Shaq was doubled teamed?

C)Why am I wasting time, debating an idiot like montsho11?

A. Youre the one saying Shaq taught Kobe to shoot. I'm saying Kobe had practice real time in games with Shaq getting the bulk of defensive pressure. Are you illiterate? You should learn to read.

b. 2nd question. Of course thats why he got better. As you pointed out Kobe did not improve at all after Shaq left. He just got more shots. Pretty simple to score more once you get more shots.

c. Face it Sman. Your love for kobe makes you the idiot. Do you want to know why? He doesnt love you back!

 

[lakersrule]

Look and see the progression from rookie to when Shaq left. Then he takes a dip and shoots more on the low end of his range the rest of his career. Factor in that he should have matured by then and you can see that Shaq helped his career development.

His FG% declined in the last two seasons with Shaq, not immediately after Shaq left. After Shaq left, Kobe shot above his average in 5 of those seasons, including 3 seasons where he was above 46% (similar to his best with Shaq).

 

[lakersrule]

More like. Hey kids with Shaq getting double and triple teamed you can go one on one and shoot practice jumpers with little resistance. It will help you later down the road when Shaq leaves.

You're joking right? It's not like Kobe never relentlessly worked on improving his game during the offseason (while Shaq was getting fat).

 

[OutlawImmortal]

His FG% declined in the last two seasons with Shaq, not immediately after Shaq left. After Shaq left, Kobe shot above his average in 5 of those seasons, including 3 seasons where he was above 46% (similar to his best with Shaq).

People want to point to Kobe's FG% but LeBron's game is mostly attacking the rim and fast break dunks. Birdman has a great percentage too but no one's comparing him to Kareem or even Bynum.

 

[Shanemansj13]

People want to point to Kobe's FG% but LeBron's game is mostly attacking the rim and fast break dunks. Birdman has a great percentage too but no one's comparing him to Kareem or even Bynum.

 

[Jims_Doors]

Okay we can chalk up the 3 peat as 3 good finals he played. During the 2002 Finals Bryant averaged 26 points on 51% shooting which included scoring a quarter of the team's points, not to mention being clutch in the 4th.

2003-2004 season Kobe hits 2 buzzer beaters to win the division title during the final game of the regular season, eventually lost to the Pistons, Kobe shot 35% on 22 ppg. 3 good 1 bad so far.

I'll give you the 2008 Finals. 3 to 2.

The slaughter against Dwight and Orlando? Kobe averaged 32/7/5 with 1.4 blocks and steals per game. The first since Michael Jordan to average 30/5/5 for a title winning team in the Finals. 4 to 2.

During the 2009-2010 season Bryant made 6 buzzer beaters including a 1 legged 3 pointer against the Heat in Wade's face. Kobe played through an avulsion fracture on the index finger of his shooting hand that year. Kobe went 66 for 163 in the Finals, he had more steals than anyone, more rebounds than anyone not named Gasol, more assists than anyone not named Rondo. In game 7, despite shooting only 6-24 from the field, Bryant led the Lakers back from a thirteen point third quarter deficit. He scored 10 of his game high 23 points in the 4th quarter and finished the game with 15 rebounds. Plus he won the title.

Kobe has played well in more Finals than not. What a coincidence, his teams seem to lose when he doesn't play well.

Haha.... first 2 were bad and 3rd was good.
4th was awful
5th was bad
6th was good
7th was avg. to bad.


7 Finals....2.5 good 4.5 bad.

Game 7 in 2010. Lakers went to the line 20 times in the 4th quarter alone and 37 times total. How does one lead a comeback in the 3rd when he was 4-18 going into the 4th? He went 2-6 in the 4th and 6 of those 10pts in the 4th came from the line. I'm sure his game 7 put him over the top in the MVP voting....:rollseyes:


Like I said, when it comes to Kobe, his fans want to talk regular season and what he did leading up to the Finals. Cause there isn't much good that happened from him in the series to talk about after the Finals were over.

 

[shitsho]

His FG% declined in the last two seasons with Shaq, not immediately after Shaq left. After Shaq left, Kobe shot above his average in 5 of those seasons, including 3 seasons where he was above 46% (similar to his best with Shaq).

46 to 45 is not that big of a drop off plus he was aggressively trying to assert himself as #1 option. If you notice thats his peak in shot attempts in the Shaq era. His "r*pe trail" year is an aberration probably due to lack of focus where he shoots 43%. When Shaq leaves his percentage stays at 43% on 2 more attempts per game. The Lakers miss the playoffs. Why was Kobe not shooting more? Why did he shoot so poorly? Defenses keyed on him. The next year his attempts and fg% go way up after he adjusts to how he is now being played. Great year for him but the Lakers get beat in the first round. Shaq provided a safe haven for Kobe to perfect his craft before striking out on his own.

 

[shitsho]

People want to point to Kobe's FG% but LeBron's game is mostly attacking the rim and fast break dunks. Birdman has a great percentage too but no one's comparing him to Kareem or even Bynum.

Kobe cant do what Lebron does. He is more of an outside shooter than Lebron. Why do you guys that love Kobe always say "but Lebron..."? 2 different styles of play. The discussion is about Kobe and Duncan. Duncan has been consistently good. Unfortunately Kobe has not. He could have been better than Jordan but he doesn't have the leadership ability of Duncan and Jordan.

 

[Shanemansj13]

You Kobe fans are worse than the LBJ or MJ fans. Kobe might of scored a lot in the playoffs but he mkstly shot poorly and take a shit of ton of shots.

 

[lakersrule]

Shaq provided a safe haven for Kobe to perfect his craft before striking out on his own.

Kobe perfected his craft with his relentless work ethic. You get better by practicing. Kobe got better due to the 1,000s of shots taken during the offseason. Giving Shaq credit for Kobe's game really does a disservice to the time Kobe put into working on it.