Starting Over Plan

[Taz]

Well, we tried the gimmicky college guru thing and found out again that the college game just doesn't work at the pro level. I think Chip's system "might" have worked, but it had to have the right QB ... none of Foles, Bradford or Sanchez had the right combination of skills and mobility needed to consistently move the chains. I think on the Defensive side, what we could be seeing these last couple of games is the defense losing their legs from a season-long losing battle with time of possession.

Spot on as usual Rey. The defense has lost is legs. First thing that happens when you lose your legs is your tackling becomes suspect. Guys start missing their spots and take bad angles to the ball

I believe there is talent on this team. Talent that used correctly could be the foundation for another playoff run with the right coach. Not the Great Pretender we have now. A coach that plays to his players strengths not his system that doesn't work. We have to find a QB and not only that develop that QB. The one thing that we can really say is under the Great Pretender not many players developed or even came close to their ability. We have drafted some good talent but most of them have not come close to their ability. We can rip Marcus Smith and where we took him all we want but he still was suppose to be a late 2nd early 3rd round pick, those players still contribute in the NFL. The guy is completely lost. I blame that on coaching.

 

[redseat]

Why did they get Murray in the first place? Eagles don't suit his running style

 

[GeekSportsFan]

Why did they get Murray in the first place? Eagles don't suit his running style

The signing of Murray and Bradford was a head scratcher for sure.

 

[redseat]

The signing of Murray and Bradford was a head scratcher for sure.

I possibly could see Bradford (injury issues aside) but not Murray

 

[GeekSportsFan]

Even with no injuries, there was nothing in Bradford that would suggest he was a top tier QB.

 

[ErkTheJerk]

Gore heard about Chip's personality and the 10 hours of sleep and smoothies and all the other 'sports science' stuff Chipper was into and thought, "I got a year or two to play. Hell if I'm going to strap on a monitor to prove I'm sleeping 10 hours each night, totally change my eating habits, etc" to play out my career". So Chip had to scramble and snag a free agent last minute.

 

[Rey]

How about a coach that can properly asses his talent and adapting a system that takes advantage of their abilities rather than taking system and cramming players into it. Fox ran some replays and the wr's were so completely covered it looked like the defence knew the routes they were running. They're not fooling anyone anymore on offence, not even crap teams.

DC has got to go. Last year, despite all evidence that fletcher couldn't be left on an island, that he needed help davis left him on an island and we saw the result. He managed to make izell jenkins look like a reasonable player. Did the same thing again yesterday with rowe. wtf is he thinking?

there was so much space in the secondary it was 11 on 7 drills.

This team is lost.

Coaches on both sides of the ball have tunnel vision ... they only know one way and don't seem to know how to adjust. We don't need to look any further than DeMarco Murray on Offense; we have him running plays meant for a shifty, stop and go type speed Back. Why in the world would we get him in the first place if we weren't going to adjust the playbook to fit his between the tackles strength??? and even when it's totally obvious that he's a square peg in a round hole we keep running the exact same plays for him! It's clear that Chip either refuses to adjust or simply doesn't know how.

 

[old duke]

Again, Chip wanted a North/South runner, which Shady isn't, and Murray is. So why did Chip then utilize Murray the East/West style of shady?? Too many questions. I think Chip took the league by storm, and when they caught up, he has no answers. Actually, how many to winning teams has Chip beaten in 2 1/2 years? Probably none.

 

[Screamin Eagle]

When you have some good players and you play poorly it is THE COACHING. When you bring in mismatched players its the GM. When you draft or trade for questionable players its the GM and COACHING. When you hire an inferior Coach and GM its the OWNER/PRESIDENT. When the players quit on the Coach its a lack of heart, a lack of integrity and poor COACHING.

This is 80% on Chip, 10% on Lurie and 10% on the players; more or less.

If Chip and company are not gone by Monday I lose total faith in the Eagle establishment.

 

[old duke]

Not gonna happen. Lurie will tell Chip to replace Davis by the end of the year, and will add a GM which may cause Chip to leave.

 

[Iggloo]

Chip said he wanted a north south runner, but all he does is run the same damn outside zone play all game long. And he doesn't get why it doesn't work.

In his defense, I suspect Chip the coach looked at the guards Chip the GM left him with and realized he can't run inside and gave up. Chip should fire himself.

 

[old duke]

Chip said he wanted a north south runner, but all he does is run the same damn outside zone play all game long. And he doesn't get why it doesn't work.

In his defense, I suspect Chip the coach looked at the guards Chip the GM left him with and realized he can't run inside and gave up. Chip should fire himself.

Good point Iggy. Guess that's why he stopped running inside, although Sproles has done it. Must be his quickness to the hole.

 

[Rey]

Ryan Mathews is averaging 2.2 more yards per carry behind the same Line. While I'm not saying we have a good OL, I think a solid Back with the "proper skill set" suited to the scheme (like Mathews) can have success. Murray's just a straight ahead Back who's a beast once he's allowed to build momentum from a traditional hand off ... you completely handcuff him when you run read option as he has to do too much starting and stopping thus nullifying momentum. He looks like a fish out of water running sideways trying to find a hole. I never in a million years thought that we'd get rid of Shady in exchange for a power Back and keep the exact same plays.

 

[greenwing]

I think perhaps chips worst move was to let Mathis walk. Our oline just hasn't been the same. No protection and no holes. Lurie Making chip GM was a disaster in the making.

 

[deerpathdave]

I don't see a starting over plan. I see more of a double down plan...

1. Despite the disaster of a year, there is still a legitimate chance that Chip Kelly could become a great NFL coach.
2. Chip is owed an additional $13M on his contract after this year. Lurie would not be inclined to pay that money out.
3. Chip is a proud man and has no desire to fail here. He will be go to Lurie at the end of the year and make the case that this was a one year aberration and he can and will turn this thing around.
4. Chip still likes Bradford and thinks he can be the guy. Bradford will sign a new contract that may look multi-year, but will essentially be a one year prove it sort of deal.
5. While Chip will seriously consider firing Davis, he will quickly realize that no good candidate wants to come in year 4 of 5 of the Head Coach's contract. Without any good options, Davis will stay as well.
6. Thurmond and Cox will sign new deals. Alonzo will walk and Ryans will be cut. Carroll will sign elsewhere and Rowe will be the starter opposite Maxwell. Cooper will be cut and Miles Austin is gone.
7. In the draft, the Eagles will use their one good pick to pick the best OT available. Jason Peters will stay one more year as the rookie is phased in...perhaps as the RG.
8. The fans will absolutely hate this plan. If the Eagles don't get off to a good start, we will be dealing with a Kelly Watch on a weekly basis with fans demonstrating and calling for Kelly to be fired. This will kick in after week one of the Eagles lose their first game.
9. Somewhere in the middle of this, Roseman will re-surface. Most likely quietly scouting new Head Coach choices for 2017. Ultimately though, Lurie will part ways with Roseman and re-hire Joe Banner if Kelly is fired.

 

[WIZ]

If players are quitting (they are) a coach has to go. No possible way Davis and Chip can both be back next year.

 

[ctc]

I don't see a starting over plan. I see more of a double down plan...

1. Despite the disaster of a year, there is still a legitimate chance that Chip Kelly could become a great NFL coach.
2. Chip is owed an additional $13M on his contract after this year. Lurie would not be inclined to pay that money out.
3. Chip is a proud man and has no desire to fail here. He will be go to Lurie at the end of the year and make the case that this was a one year aberration and he can and will turn this thing around.
4. Chip still likes Bradford and thinks he can be the guy. Bradford will sign a new contract that may look multi-year, but will essentially be a one year prove it sort of deal.
5. While Chip will seriously consider firing Davis, he will quickly realize that no good candidate wants to come in year 4 of 5 of the Head Coach's contract. Without any good options, Davis will stay as well.
6. Thurmond and Cox will sign new deals. Alonzo will walk and Ryans will be cut. Carroll will sign elsewhere and Rowe will be the starter opposite Maxwell. Cooper will be cut and Miles Austin is gone.
7. In the draft, the Eagles will use their one good pick to pick the best OT available. Jason Peters will stay one more year as the rookie is phased in...perhaps as the RG.
8. The fans will absolutely hate this plan. If the Eagles don't get off to a good start, we will be dealing with a Kelly Watch on a weekly basis with fans demonstrating and calling for Kelly to be fired. This will kick in after week one of the Eagles lose their first game.
9. Somewhere in the middle of this, Roseman will re-surface. Most likely quietly scouting new Head Coach choices for 2017. Ultimately though, Lurie will part ways with Roseman and re-hire Joe Banner if Kelly is fired.

That's not doubling down. That's merely more of the same.

Given your record for prognostication we can safely assume 80% of this will not happen.

He kept howie over banner but now he'll bring banner back? Because he was so successful in Cleveland?
He traded McCoy for Alonzo and now let's alonzo walk? wtf? If Davis isn't canned he should leave if kelly persists in his brain dead manner of running the same offence regardless of the situation. Kelly would be setting him up for failure, again.

 

[deerpathdave]

If players are quitting (they are) a coach has to go. No possible way Davis and Chip can both be back next year.

"players quitting" is one of those cliches that is used more often than it is true. If its happening, it makes some sense that its on defense as that has been what has totally fallen apart the last two weeks. I just don't get why a team of professionals in the middle of a playoff hunt would just up and quit? Its their careers on the line here as well as their pride. Players quit on a losing team with a lame duck coach. They don't quit in the middle of a playoff hunt!

Not saying its not happening, just would like to see someone break it down. Show me the plays where you see it happening.

 

[DutchBird]

If players are quitting (they are) a coach has to go. No possible way Davis and Chip can both be back next year.

True... though that does not take away that there is no viable alternative available to replace Chip either.

Apologies for the Great Wall of Text that follows.

If Kelly has not lost the locker-room, I simply see no alternative to him remaining, at a minimum as a coach. However, if he has lost the locker-room, there is no other solution than him having to go. I am not that sure about his position as GM, though the way things stand now I would like to see that modified.

Chip seems to be a very target and business oriented coach, and that seems to be clearly visible in his approach to players. Chip, for one, has apologized, in front of the team, when he first had accused McCoy of dancing rather than hitting the hole, when it turned out McCoy was right, and there was no hole. Another example is how Chip changed the game plan in the Snow Bowl on the advice of Carey Williams, and that is what turned the game around. Similarly a number of players have stated that (a) they can have input in the game plan, and (b) they can always walk into Chip's office, and his door is always open. I cannot remember anything like that being said of Andy Reid, and apparently that cannot be said either of many coaches either. The thing though is that this perfectly fits with an impersonal and business-like approach, and still leave a feeling of Chip being a cold person. It also seems how easily the mess of the last years of the Andy Reid regime has been forgotten (the 'Dream Team', his son being brought in, the mess on defense after JJ dies).

If you look at the problems this team faces now, much of it can be traced back to dumb luck and horrendous drafting by the Andy Reid regime.

Mind you, last season the offense was about as bad as this one - with better WR's/WR play, better RB-play (at least primary RB) and better O-line play.


QB: No viable prospects when the Eagles were bad enough to have a shot at them, and that seems to be the problem again this year. And bad luck that Russel Wilson got picked right from out under them. There is nothing out there in FA. It is an indictment of the position that Sam Bradford is probably the best QB out there this free agency, by miles. So - probably - the surest way to get a QB last off season that might be above average was actually trying to get Sam Bradford; and yes, although he seems to have been a definite upgrade over Foles, having to give up a 2nd rounder probably was too much.

O-line: Yes, you can blame Kelly somewhat for not drafting someone. But remember that Andy had left nobody behind that was viable other than the starters. Herremans and Kelce were the last good linemen Andy actually drafted. And considering where Kelce was picked (6th round) that was as much dumb luck as anything. And there have been numerous reports there that this year Kelly wanted O-linemen in the draft, but the ones they targeted where picked right in front of them - leaving them with a major reach (at best). Herremans had to be let go, Mathis is somewhat more up for debate. Nobody could have seen Kelce's dismal season coming.

Upgrading the O-line is the biggest need of the off-season.

WR/RB: This is one where Chip Kelly is pretty much to blame all by himself. Getting rid of Desean Jackson probably was the right thing to do - there is a reason why a number of reports indicate he will likely be thrown out in Washington as well. I can/could even understand why he traded McCoy and let Maclin go. I came across an article somewhere where it was mentioned that if we had kept Maclin (for the deal he got from KC) and McCoy those two alone would have eaten something like 25 million of the cap [FTR, I have not checked that number]. Where Kelly does shoulder a lot of blame is what he did to replace them, which has shown to be a dismal failure. What made it worse is how the WR's that remained have simply played horrid (drops). It also created a need to draft another WR.

In hindsight, the best moves probably would have been: Trade McCoy for Alonso, re-sign Maclin, sign Mathews, rely on the drafted/back-up RB's we had, and invest in the line (draft or FA) or a WR (not named Austin).

D-line: Okay.

LB: Ryans is near the end of his career, and it was all but certain he could even return from his injury. Kendricks had not proven to be that good. So there was a definite need to let him go. Not sure about the Cole situation, but last I heared he is a failure in Indianapolis. Smith II (who the hell is responsible for that pick) seems to be a bust. In that regard I do stand behind the McCoy vs Alonso trade. The situation does not look too good though.

DB: Letting Boykin might have been a decent move, and I think is not nearly as disastrous as it is/was made out to be. Mind you that he had a hard time getting on the field for what many considered to be a CB/NB starved team, with him not even making the NB position (which he did not want to play!). Maxwell was overpaid - we all knew that; I do not think he will ever fully live up to that amount of money, but his play seems to have improved somewhat over the season. The biggest problem - it seems - is the way he is used in the scheme. The biggest problem I see with the DB's has as much to do with scheme as their quality.



In general, I think that - if he is to stay here - Kelly has to change how he does things. He is supposed to be someone who is willing to adapt when there is actual hard evidence something is not working. Here is hoping that that is the case here as well, and it will overcome his stubbornness. He has a lot of soul-searching to do; the look on his face/his demeanour during the Lions game and the press conference thereafter suggests that he is well aware of that - and I hope he does so sooner rather than later. In some ways I would prefer him to use the next week to do that (including some very good talks with the team and coaches) rather that spend energy on facing New England.

Kelly has to change his offense, because clearly his focus on execution over design is clearly not working. The offense is killing this team. His notion that TOP does not matter has to be thrown out somewhat. His approach to the start of the game has to change - because the offense generally has been horrendous early in games for two seasons now.

 

[DutchBird]

"players quitting" is one of those cliches that is used more often than it is true. If its happening, it makes some sense that its on defense as that has been what has totally fallen apart the last two weeks. I just don't get why a team of professionals in the middle of a playoff hunt would just up and quit? Its their careers on the line here as well as their pride. Players quit on a losing team with a lame duck coach. They don't quit in the middle of a playoff hunt!

Not saying its not happening, just would like to see someone break it down. Show me the plays where you see it happening.

The thing is, the way the games have plaid out this at no point of the season (other than perhaps after the Cowboys game) has felt like a playoff hunt. Hell, they have been ridiculed since the start of the season by everyone on the outside, and it is impossible to keep that out.

It has felt like groundhog day for two seasons now. A horrendous offense, a defense (and last season ST) that kept them in games enough that one or two anomalous plays by the offense could win them a game.

Why put in the effort when you know the result is the same over and over again. And know that you have no chance - even if somehow you make the playoffs - to go anywhere. You also see that the personnel decisions this off-season have mostly not yielded the results hoped for, and been a failure in many ways.

I'll go out on a limb, but I think the defense decided to quit - consciously or subconsciously - after the Miami game, and lost complete faith for two reasons: the O-line stunk it up (like most of the season), and Bradford, who had been improving, was replaced by Sanchez who played a typical Sanchez game. Also the fact that Cooper and Austin and again were the dismal failures they are must have played a role as well. Sanchez' performance against the Bucks completely sealed the deal.