So let's say Wisconsin wins the Big 10 Championship

[pumpkinhead33793]

It's GREAT this is happening. It's the next step towards an 8 team playoff which is what is always should've been anyway. The stone cold fact is that 2 of the 5 best teams in the country this year did not win their division ( MICHIGAN and OSU) and I'd argue they are 2 of the 3 best teams. Until we get to 8 this is always going to be a debate

Agreed. What I would do is make it 8 with the Conference Championship winner of the power 5 getting an auto bid. Big 12 would need to add a championship game. The highest ranked team from the non power 5 would get a bid. Then the final 2 would be atlarges. This year most certainly would have been Ohio State and Michigan.

 

[Smart]

If their sole job was to pick the 4 best teams, Michigan would get in too IMO. But it's not. Their job is to pick the most deserving teams based on play on the field, record and accomplishments.

Which of these is better?

3-1 vs top 10 (assuming Oklahoma wins vs Oklahoma State)
1 overall loss and 2 close wins in OT
11 wins
H2H loss

OR

2-1 vs top 10
Conference Championship
2 overall losses
11 wins
H2H win

If you took out the Conference Championship, yes Ohio State would have a better resume due to the 2nd loss and only because of that. But since Conference Championship is a major accomplishment, it should trump.

It's pretty hilarious that even with your hand-picked example and your suspicious double-counting the H2H, it's still clear OSU is better.

 

[rmilia1]

If their sole job was to pick the 4 best teams, Michigan would get in too IMO. But it's not. Their job is to pick the most deserving teams based on play on the field, record and accomplishments.

Which of these is better?

3-1 vs top 10 (assuming Oklahoma wins vs Oklahoma State)
1 overall loss and 2 close wins in OT
11 wins
H2H loss

OR

2-1 vs top 10
Conference Championship
2 overall losses
11 wins
H2H win

If you took out the Conference Championship, yes Ohio State would have a better resume due to the 2nd loss and only because of that. But since Conference Championship is a major accomplishment, it should trump.

Commonly held belief but no. It's just to pick the 4 best teams and you're right Michigan is one of them but they use criteria to judge. IF a non Champs resume isn't UNEQUIVOCALLY better then the conference title is used as a tiebreaker of sorts. Ohio States IS absolutely unequivocally better.

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

Head to head is a logical fallacy. Michigan would have to get in over PSU. But OSU would have to get in over Michigan. But oh no, PSU gets in over PSU. Michigan gets in over PSU. And now we have a paradox.

OSU isnt getting in because "I think" they are better. They are getting in because they had a better record against a better schedule even considering their three point loss on a blocked field goal on the road.

Maybe if PSU wins by 24+, they have an argument. But barring a genuine blowout, there is not a logical claim that considering the whole year, they outplayed OSU. And again, it's not really that close either.

Why do people keep saying "it isn't close"?

Look at the games played head to head between these teams. The only thing that overrated Ohio State is that they have a style of offense that is more prone to blowing out inferior teams. I hate when people overate teams based on this because it doesn't use any critical thinking. These teams are not necessarily more likely to beat top notch teams.

If you ask me if I had my life on the line and I could pick one team to beat Alabama, my answer without a doubt would be Michigan. Not even close.

But we have go go by a precedent. They play the games for a reason. If you actually win your Conference Championship, that should get you in over a team that didn't win it in your conference. Otherwise, why have a conference championship?

 

[Smart]

Here's a better hypo.

Team A beats Team B by 39
Team B beats Team C by 3
Team C beats Team A by 7

In their other games, Team C went 10-0. They have 2 other top 10 wins.

In their other games, Team B went 10-1. They lost to an unranked team, but did have one other top 10 win.

In their other games, Team A went 9-1. They had a borderline top 10 win and a loss to an unranked team.

Notice how any hypo that actually deals with their ENTIRE resume is laughably lopsided to OSU. How are we even discussing picking anyone other than Team C here?

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

Commonly held belief but no. It's just to pick the 4 best teams and you're right Michigan is one of them but they use criteria to judge. IF a non Champs resume isn't UNEQUIVOCALLY better then the conference title is used as a tiebreaker of sorts. Ohio States IS absolutely unequivocally better.

But the committee said back in 2014 that Conference Championship was weighted higher. That's how Ohio State got in over TCU that year. They said those exact words.

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

It's pretty hilarious that even with your hand-picked example and your suspicious double-counting the H2H, it's still clear OSU is better.

I didn't double count anything. If one team beats another team in H2H, then the other team lost it. Common sense man.

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

Here's a better hypo.

Team A beats Team B by 39
Team B beats Team C by 3
Team C beats Team A by 7

In their other games, Team C went 10-0. They have 2 other top 10 wins.

In their other games, Team B went 10-1. They lost to an unranked team, but did have one other top 10 win.

In their other games, Team A went 9-1. They had a borderline top 10 win and a loss to an unranked team.

Notice how any hypo that actually deals with their ENTIRE resume is laughably lopsided to OSU. How are we even discussing picking anyone other than Team C here?

Because team B would have a Championship.

 

[rmilia1]

But the committee said back in 2014 that Conference Championship was weighted higher. That's how Ohio State got in over TCU that year. They said those exact words.

Those teams had similar resumes so the conference title was the decider. PSU and OSU do not have similar resumes. If PSU has beaten Pitt we would be having a different discussion but they didn't

 

[The Oldtimer]

I would probably do that too. It would suck for Washington but it is what it is.

There should be no way in hell that Ohio State makes the playoffs, as they didn't win their division. IMO, that is why college football has conference Championship games. If you are not good enough to win your division, then you have no business in the the college football playoffs. Just my opinion.

 

[Shanemansj13]

No sense assuming Wisky wins after the way they played today. I think PSU beats them.

Every game is different. Cmon now

 

[Smart]

Why do people keep saying "it isn't close"?

Look at the games played head to head between these teams. The only thing that overrated Ohio State is that they have a style of offense that is more prone to blowing out inferior teams. I hate when people overate teams based on this because it doesn't use any critical thinking. These teams are not necessarily more likely to beat top notch teams.

If you ask me if I had my life on the line and I could pick one team to beat Alabama, my answer without a doubt would be Michigan. Not even close.

But we have go go by a precedent. They play the games for a reason. If you actually win your Conference Championship, that should get you in over a team that didn't win it in your conference. Otherwise, why have a conference championship?

Because team B would have a Championship.

Okay? So add that in to the hypo. If you don't think Team C is way ahead of Team B, you are fucking insane.

You say that they play the games for a reason. Then you ignore how PSU lost games by 39 to Michigan and to Pitt. And when a description of their GAMES favors OSU, you add in some criteria other than play on the field.

Like R said, H2H and conference champs matter when the resumes are close. You look at the hypo I gave and tell me it is close, and we'll both know you are trolling. You are using H2H and the conference championship to say they are close, and since you say that, you say "if they are close, then H2H and conference championships rule."

It's a circular argument.

And as you know, I am a Badger fan. I wish your argument made sense. If I could double-count the conference title, we'd make the playoff. It's just that your argument makes no sense.

 

[The Oldtimer]

So because PSU shit the bed OOC, they deserve to make the playoffs? That's an awfully arbitrary reason which has nothing to do with who played better.

Because they were better over the year? It's not really that hard to understand.

Better over the year, but didn't win their division.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Ohio St has 3 Top 10 wins, another Top 25 win, no bad losses and 4 more wins vs bowl teams. That's 8 wins vs .500+ teams. They're in and if they're not in then starting next year the committee should just change the rules to ONLY conference Champs because there will NEVER be a non conference champ with a better resume. Ever.

If Bama was in the same situation they would be a lock

 

[rmilia1]

If Bama was in the same situation they would be a lock

Bamas resume if they lose next week will not be as good as Ohio States. That said they won't lose lol

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

Those teams had similar resumes so the conference title was the decider. PSU and OSU do not have similar resumes. If PSU has beaten Pitt we would be having a different discussion but they didn't

No they didn't have similar resumes back in 2014. TCU lost to a top 10 team on the road by 3 points in OT. Ohio State lost 6-6 team at home. In the regular season, TCU had beaten 4 ranked teams than year compared to Ohio States 2. TCU beat their opponents at a higher margin than Ohio State.

Yes, they both only had 1 loss, but TCU was a vastly more impressive team that year. They got fucked because the committee said how important that Championship game was.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I think it sets a horrible precedent if Ohio State gets in OVER the Big Ten Champion. Especially if it is Penn State who beat them. If you want to put both of them because the Big Ten was that good this year at the top, then fine.

But how to you fail to put a team in that OUTRIGHT WON the best conference in the nation? How does that make sense?

It does set a precent. Play a strong non-conference and win those games. Shouldnt you reward a team fro playing one of the best teams in the nation. Head-to-head matters but it shouldnt determine it when you consider all the circumstances. Wisconsin, Penn St, Ohio St and Michigan all played close games with each other except Michigan destroyed Penn St. Penn St also has thd worst loss. That stuff matters too. The only thing the B1G championship game means is you play an extra game most likely against a very good opponent. It doesnt mean you are te best team in the conference. Every game is different.

You put Ohio St and Penn St on a NEUTRAL FIELD when Penn St doesnt have 2 weeks to prepare after Ohio St went to OT with a top 10 opponent, who do you think wins??? If you think Penn St is the better team overall than fine but just bc you lose to a team doesnt mean they are better team and in this situation the best team in the conference. Lets be real and look at everything as a whole.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Bamas resume if they lose next week will not be as good as Ohio States. That said they won't lose lol

Exactly. So if you dont put Ohio St in then you are basically saying you HAVE to win your coference or you have no shot of getting in the CFP even if that team that won the conference isnt in the top 4 or one of the BEST teams in the nation.

 

[Shanemansj13]

No they didn't have similar resumes back in 2014. TCU lost to a top 10 team on the road by 3 points in OT. Ohio State lost 6-6 team at home. In the regular season, TCU had beaten 4 ranked teams than year compared to Ohio States 2. TCU beat their opponents at a higher margin than Ohio State.

Yes, they both only had 1 loss, but TCU was a vastly more impressive team that year. They got fucked because the committee said how important that Championship game was.

Do you not understand they both had one loss. Wow. Penn St has 2 losses. Think about it and maybe you will figure it out.

1 MORE LOSS.

 

[The Oldtimer]

It's pretty hilarious that even with your hand-picked example and your suspicious double-counting the H2H, it's still clear OSU is better.

What? Ohio State "DIDN'T" win their division. No, it's "NOT" clear that Ohio State is better!!