so are TCU/WVU to the b12 officially busts now?

[tech_iceman]

lol @ Texas Tech being undefeated against these two teams since they've been in the Big 12

and they can't shut up about Gary Patterson's awesome defenses over the past few years... because he was playing against high school teams!

 

[LawDawg]

I disagree on your time frame. With the new playoff and the BiG going 16 in 2015, the SEC will match. The BIG XII will make its splash then.

Where have you guys been the past 9 months since all this settled down? The only signficant expansion will be for the Big12 to to to 12 teams. Cincy seems logical. Not sure who no. 12 would be.

 

[GunsUp_ShootinBlanks]

Where have you guys been the past 9 months since all this settled down? The only signficant expansion will be for the Big12 to to to 12 teams. Cincy seems logical. Not sure who no. 12 would be.

Honestly I wouldn't mind picking up UCF and Tulane. Get into Louisiana and Florida. Long term would improve both programs.

 

[GoldRusher]

Research "Grant of Rights."

Should have clarified, I was talking yearS down the road. For the foreseeable future agree with you 100%, not happening unless the B12 decides to go 12 or beyond with the leftover non P5 programs.

 

[GoldRusher]

Honestly I wouldn't mind picking up UCF and Tulane. Get into Louisiana and Florida. Long term would improve both programs.

If it weren't for making less money I agree, UCF, ECU, UC, and MAYBE USF or UConn would be good investments for the future, much like the old BE invested in UL,Cincy,UConn, and USF and let them develop after the first ACC raid. Im not sold on UConn ever being committed to football enough to take the chance on them or USF from what Ive seen for that matter but with the changes that have happened recently any school that wouldn't do everything they could to their football program to make themselves attractive are fools, I cant believe that they are all stupid.

 

[john01992]

if the b12 were to expand heres what i think would be their best options

personally i think rice would be one of the better adds the b12 could get. yeah i know i may sound insane but academically texas is an island in the b12 and by getting rice they have that one elite academia that they have that name brand association with which will shut up all of those within austin who are proponents of a b12 split for academic reasons.

the b12s football is fine the way it is, they dont need to add FB only schools and the last time they attempted to add FB only schools things didnt work out too well for them. the b12 should invest in something besides football for a change to strengthen the conference overall.

csu would be a nice building project add that has lots of potential down the road. they are the fastest growing academic school in FBS and they are about to build a very nice on campus stadium that would be by far the most expensive a g5 school has ever built. they come from one of the fastest growing states which has an unsaturated market and could easily field another power5 program.

id even recommend for the b12 to just cut its losses and drop wvu. the island thing isnt gonna work out and i think it would be mutual among both sides. wvu-b12 are only dragging each other down. the b12s future is not in the east so theres no reason for them to have an eastern school like that. wvu has a guaranteed spot in the ACC because sooner or later ND will come around.

so who is #12
byu: who probably doesnt wanna join, so AF as a FB only member could be an option, or they go after new mexico which has terrible football, but really good basketball and a nice state to add to a b12 network (which the b12 needs to get)

if however the b12 wants to keep wvu: go after ucf/usf. cincy only softens the blow so much for wvu. cincy is just one school and is not gonna drastically decrease travel times.

usf/ucf gives the conference (and especially wvu) a foothold into the florida recruiting. usf is a medium sized school & ucf is one of the largest schools out there. both usf/ucf are on the up swing, are very good building projects and come from a football crazy state.

but these are all long term projects, the only way the b12 makes these types of move is if they were truly interested in the conferences long term stability......but they are not.

the reality check is this:
the b12 is a dying conference, everyone knows it including the b12. texahoma is as good as gone when the GOR is up. what everyone in the b12 is doing right now is trying to milk the current situation for all they money they can get. thats why you see tcu/wvu get added, thats why you see independent school networks over a b12 network.

the only way the b12 expands is if they want a ccg, even then its hard to say which two teams they add.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

The BIG 12 will get around to grabbing the 2 Florida schools when the time is right.

They are not going to jump at dead ends like Louisville for no reason.
I am so glad they did not fall in love with the Louisville BCS win and grab them.

WVU and TCU were shotgun weddings out of necessity.
The conference doesn't need to expand for expansion sake for schools like UofL.

The Big 12 will only expand for big new TV markets and recruiting base.
Florida is sitting there prime for the taking.

As it is currently set up, the Big 12 still makes the most money per team of any league.
I imagine the new SEC deal will surpass that of course, but its not like the Big 12 is suffering for cash.

The Big 12 finally got a bowl game in Florida. It took a lot of political weight to wrangle it.
That is the first step to putting down the stake.


Central Florida + an other Florida school would be the absolute best expansion move for the Big 12.

 

[john01992]

The BIG 12 will get around to grabbing the 2 Florida schools when the time is right.

They are not going to jump at dead ends like Louisville for no reason.
I am so glad they did not fall in love with the Louisville BCS win and grab them.

WVU and TCU were shotgun weddings out of necessity.
The conference doesn't need to expand for expansion sake for schools like UofL.

The Big 12 will only expand for big new TV markets and recruiting base.
Florida is sitting there prime for the taking.

As it is currently set up, the Big 12 still makes the most money per team of any league.
I imagine the new SEC deal will surpass that of course, but its not like the Big 12 is suffering for cash.

The Big 12 finally got a bowl game in Florida. It took a lot of political weight to wrangle it.
That is the first step to putting down the stake.


Central Florida + an other Florida school would be the absolute best expansion move for the Big 12.

about that one part: theres a little white lie about that:
conference tv money was split just 9 ways because tcu/wvu only received half shares.

factor in that it was an insanely good year for the b12 where all but 1 team made a bowl......its very unlikely they ever come close to pulling that off again. and then theres the whole little "that tv contract was made when mizz/aggie were in the b12" aspect of it

 

[TexasExes98]

if the b12 were to expand heres what i think would be their best options

personally i think rice would be one of the better adds the b12 could get. yeah i know i may sound insane but academically texas is an island in the b12 and by getting rice they have that one elite academia that they have that name brand association with which will shut up all of those within austin who are proponents of a b12 split for academic reasons.

the b12s football is fine the way it is, they dont need to add FB only schools and the last time they attempted to add FB only schools things didnt work out too well for them. the b12 should invest in something besides football for a change to strengthen the conference overall.

csu would be a nice building project add that has lots of potential down the road. they are the fastest growing academic school in FBS and they are about to build a very nice on campus stadium that would be by far the most expensive a g5 school has ever built. they come from one of the fastest growing states which has an unsaturated market and could easily field another power5 program.

id even recommend for the b12 to just cut its losses and drop wvu. the island thing isnt gonna work out and i think it would be mutual among both sides. wvu-b12 are only dragging each other down. the b12s future is not in the east so theres no reason for them to have an eastern school like that. wvu has a guaranteed spot in the ACC because sooner or later ND will come around.

so who is #12
byu: who probably doesnt wanna join, so AF as a FB only member could be an option, or they go after new mexico which has terrible football, but really good basketball and a nice state to add to a b12 network (which the b12 needs to get)

if however the b12 wants to keep wvu: go after ucf/usf. cincy only softens the blow so much for wvu. cincy is just one school and is not gonna drastically decrease travel times.

usf/ucf gives the conference (and especially wvu) a foothold into the florida recruiting. usf is a medium sized school & ucf is one of the largest schools out there. both usf/ucf are on the up swing, are very good building projects and come from a football crazy state.

but these are all long term projects, the only way the b12 makes these types of move is if they were truly interested in the conferences long term stability......but they are not.

the reality check is this:
the b12 is a dying conference, everyone knows it including the b12. texahoma is as good as gone when the GOR is up. what everyone in the b12 is doing right now is trying to milk the current situation for all they money they can get. thats why you see tcu/wvu get added, thats why you see independent school networks over a b12 network.

the only way the b12 expands is if they want a ccg, even then its hard to say which two teams they add.

Well, it's a damn good thing your opinion means dick. Not really sure why you think WVU doesn't bring value to the table b/c IMG certainly does, as they have signed WVU to a very lucrative 3rd Tier contract worth more than all 5 of your favorite schools put together:

WV MetroNews ? IMG?s tier-3 deal tops $80 million

I think I'll trust a 48 year old global sports and media business firm over the opinion of some irrelevant message board poster. Now, go ahead and spout more of your opinion and tell me how you know more than IMG does.

 

[john01992]

Well, it's a damn good thing your opinion means dick. Not really sure why you think WVU doesn't bring value to the table b/c IMG certainly does, as they have signed WVU to a very lucrative 3rd Tier contract worth more than all 5 of your favorite schools put together:

WV MetroNews ? IMG?s tier-3 deal tops $80 million

I think I'll trust a 48 year old global sports and media business firm over the opinion of some irrelevant message board poster. Now, go ahead and spout more of your opinion and tell me how you know more than IMG does.

heres whats so funny about b12 logic: you see the bold part.....you dumbass's cant think....maybe theres a reason for that?

the b10 shares its tier 3 among the b10 network they actually WORK TOGETHER. not do a total free for all. if you really think that michigan is worth less than wvu it just shows your stupidity. tv contracts dont truly show the value of a school. for example the b12 got a massive tv contract, but hey guess what? wvu & tcu were NEVER included in that contract. the b12 got more than the acc despite the acc having more teams, better teams, and in more states. why???? because its desperation. fox wanted to get the b12 on their brand new network and the b12 had the luxury of fielding multiple offers. meanwhile the acc could only sign with ESPN and did not have the right to field competing bids the way the b12 could.

then theres the LHN thing. sure texas got 300 mill......but um hey hows that network doing....oh you mean the one thats the laughing stock of cfb????? the one that had just 1 mill subscribers after 3 years and had to force games on the network to make it viable...oh yeah that one.......

the truth is that tv contracts come no where close to accurately portraying a schools value. its not like a draft where they can sign any school they want and the high picks get more money. the truth is that theres so much more to it than that.

this is why b12 homers tick me off, they have zero logic & zero reasoning. do you honestly think that the conference with the least amount of teams & smallest blueprint is the most valuable????? do you really think wvu as an island can be successful longterm in the b12??????

get off your high horse

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Here is a dying league

1. CASH - The Big 12 is swimming in piles of cash. Despite your idiotic beliefs, the Big 12 TV contracts are not dependent on how many teams make bowl games. The Big 12 teams make the most (currently) from their Tier 1 and Tier 3 league broadcasts. It is guaranteed for over a decade.

2. POACHING PROTECTION - A rock solid 13 year GOR essentially insure that no Big 12 team will ever be taken away anytime soon.

3. BOWL TIE INS in all 3 CFB STATES - The Big 12 now has an outstanding bowl lineup thanks to the extreme efforts of its management. The new Florida bowl game was a lot of work, but the league now has games in California, Texas, and Florida. That is the trio of states, that everyone wants to be in.

4. SEC/BIG 12 CHAMPIONS BOWL ALLIANCE - The Big 12 and the SEC partnered in a long term relationship with the Sugar Bowl. It will be a great marriage and a showcase similar to the Big 10/PAC 12 Rose Bowl. Both leagues are committed long term with capital and labor resources.

5. ACC SCHEDULING ALLIANCE - The Russell athletic bowl was the first shot across the bow. The ACC an Big 12 leadership are working on a long term strategic partnership of shared scheduling and cross promotions. Part of the Florida State to the Big 12 died down because the ACC and Big 12 are working to get this alliance foundation as a defacto super league of sort.

6. NO EXPANSION RESTRICTIONS - The SEC has rules against doubling states. The Big 10 only wants AAU schools. The PAC 12 will not take religious affiliated schools. The Big 12 has by far and away the least restrictive expansion policies.


So, the Big 12 has:
Tons of Cash
complete protection from poaching
great bowl games
extremely powerful alliance with the SEC
a framework for a long term alliance with the ACC
no limitations on expansion targets

Dying League....

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

tier 1 and tier 2

 

[Doctor Krieger]

Too early to tell. Ask me 3 or so years from now.

 

[john01992]

Here is a dying league

1. CASH - The Big 12 is swimming in piles of cash. Despite your idiotic beliefs, the Big 12 TV contracts are not dependent on how many teams make bowl games. The Big 12 teams make the most (currently) from their Tier 1 and Tier 3 league broadcasts. It is guaranteed for over a decade.

-sorry but cash doesnt solve everything, the b12 has an array of issue's that not even cash can solve. for example "how much cash does it take to get FSU to come to the b12?" the answer: apparently the b12 doesnt have enough

2. POACHING PROTECTION - A rock solid 13 year GOR essentially insure that no Big 12 team will ever be taken away anytime soon.

the b12 only has a GOR, GORs have never been taken to court before and we have no idea exactly how secure they are. the b12 got its previous exit fee ripped to shreds by the 4 departing b12 schools recovering only 40% of what they were supposed to get

3. BOWL TIE INS in all 3 CFB STATES - The Big 12 now has an outstanding bowl lineup thanks to the extreme efforts of its management. The new Florida bowl game was a lot of work, but the league now has games in California, Texas, and Florida. That is the trio of states, that everyone wants to be in.

4. SEC/BIG 12 CHAMPIONS BOWL ALLIANCE - The Big 12 and the SEC partnered in a long term relationship with the Sugar Bowl. It will be a great marriage and a showcase similar to the Big 10/PAC 12 Rose Bowl. Both leagues are committed long term with capital and labor resources.

5. ACC SCHEDULING ALLIANCE - The Russell athletic bowl was the first shot across the bow. The ACC an Big 12 leadership are working on a long term strategic partnership of shared scheduling and cross promotions. Part of the Florida State to the Big 12 died down because the ACC and Big 12 are working to get this alliance foundation as a defacto super league of sort.

6. NO EXPANSION RESTRICTIONS - The SEC has rules against doubling states. The Big 10 only wants AAU schools. The PAC 12 will not take religious affiliated schools. The Big 12 has by far and away the least restrictive expansion policies.

the b10 was tough on AAU status because they were 1 of just 2 athletic conferences in the entire NCAA that had full aau membership. the other being a d3 conference whose name is and i kid you not the egghead eight (used to be called the nerdy nine). you might be thinking "hey what about the ivy league" but not even the ivys had every member be an aau member.

the only reason why the b10 was such a hardass on aau was because of the prestige of having full aau membership. now that nebraska broke though the non aau membership wall that barrier for non aau schools looking to join the b10 is much smaller

as for the sec, theres no way they pass on texas or or take okie jr along with OU. double states rule my ass theres no way they do that.


So, the Big 12 has:
Tons of Cash
complete protection from poaching
great bowl games
extremely powerful alliance with the SEC
a framework for a long term alliance with the ACC
no limitations on expansion targets

Dying League....

you have given me nothing but short term reasons as to why the b12 is stable but here are the long term reasons as to why the b12 will die......

1. you have the smallest market footprint by far: the b12 got very lucky when they got their massive tv contract from fox due in large part to the market having a high demand and agie/mizz on your negotiating table. however the sec acc & b10 all have massive pay days coming their way in the next few years. long term there is absolutely no way that the b12 can stay at the same payout rate as the other power conferences. when the b12 is due for a new tv contract, theres no way they make as much as the other schools.

2. the b12 has the worst academics of any conference. as much as b12 homers hate to admit, the academics do matter because these are athletic moves, but they are made by the academia's within a school. the b12s biggest problem right now is that texas is in a conference where every other school is by far academically inferior. that will ultimately prove to be the ultimate rallying cry from within the school to leave the conference. it is my firm belief that had the b12 been academically stronger than the acc, clemson & fsu would be b12 members right now

3. theres no unity- the b12 is nothing more than a shot gun marriage of 5 former b8 schools 4 former swc schools, and wvu. theres no historic bonds holding these schools together like there is with the sec pac acc & b10. there is nothing hold texas tech & isu together, these schools will split with each other without hesitation and on a moments notice. whereas with other conferences they have cores that keep them together like the NC & va schools within the ACC.

4. theres no conference network: sure gloat about all your mega tier 3 deals, but theres a pretty big reason as to why the other conferences are not doing the same. because its stupid, it limits the brand exposure and it destabilizes the conference. texas makes 15 mill off tier 3.....how much does baylor make?????? do you not see the serious problem developing here????? and to top it off theres still special treatment going around. ut still gets to play at home on thanksgiving day every year and more & more LHN games keep getting added. sooner or later the lid on the b12 is gonna blow yet again

5. the are exposed. they share a border with the acc, pac, b10, & sec. b12 homers keep dreaming of the acc getting picked apart by smaller conferences, but im betting on the conference thats smaller and has to fend off poaching conferences on all sides.

all you can talk about is short term reasons for the b12 being successful, but these are all some serious, serious long term problems that will crush the b12 sooner or later. everybody on the inside knows it. thats why they stayed at 10 teams, thats why they added tcu/wvu (teams that provide only short term help to the b12 and hurt the b12 long term) over long term building projects like rice, csu, & new mexico, thats why they stayed at 10 teams, and last but not least thats why they are going after school networks rather than building a conference network.

its just sign after sign that the b12 is only interested in short term gain at the price of totally sabotaging themselves long term. the b12's grave is dug, they are sitting on life support with the machine keeping them alive running out of battery life (the GOR). when the battery expires......they are as good as dead.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

That is exactly why the most powerful league in the country handpicked the Big 12 to be their Sugar Bowl dance partner.

Both the SEC and the Big 12 are committed to a long term Champions Bowl alliance.

The idea is to make Big 12 vs SEC the exact same as PAC12 vs Big 10 in the Rose Bowl.

Getting out of the Fiesta Bowl is the strongest move of all.

I suspect the Champions Bowl will be the highest rated and largest payout non-playoff bowl every season.

 

[john01992]

That is exactly why the most powerful league in the country handpicked the Big 12 to be their Sugar Bowl dance partner.

Both the SEC and the Big 12 are committed to a long term Champions Bowl alliance.

The idea is to make Big 12 vs SEC the exact same as PAC12 vs Big 10 in the Rose Bowl.

Getting out of the Fiesta Bowl is the strongest move of all.

I suspect the Champions Bowl will be the highest rated and largest payout non-playoff bowl every season.

dont flatter yourself. their options were you or the acc and they chose you

so you are saying the b12 is safe long term cuz the sec decided to partner up with them in a bowl (the same conference that tried to raid 3 swc schools in the 90s, and took 2 b12 schools in the 2000s)

seriously???? thats your argument????

what happens when that "most powerful conference in the country" raids you??????

 

[charlie42s]

goober

 

[TexasExes98]

heres whats so funny about b12 logic: you see the bold part.....you dumbass's cant think....maybe theres a reason for that?

the b10 shares its tier 3 among the b10 network they actually WORK TOGETHER. not do a total free for all. if you really think that michigan is worth less than wvu it just shows your stupidity. tv contracts dont truly show the value of a school. for example the b12 got a massive tv contract, but hey guess what? wvu & tcu were NEVER included in that contract. the b12 got more than the acc despite the acc having more teams, better teams, and in more states. why???? because its desperation. fox wanted to get the b12 on their brand new network and the b12 had the luxury of fielding multiple offers. meanwhile the acc could only sign with ESPN and did not have the right to field competing bids the way the b12 could.

then theres the LHN thing. sure texas got 300 mill......but um hey hows that network doing....oh you mean the one thats the laughing stock of cfb????? the one that had just 1 mill subscribers after 3 years and had to force games on the network to make it viable...oh yeah that one.......

the truth is that tv contracts come no where close to accurately portraying a schools value. its not like a draft where they can sign any school they want and the high picks get more money. the truth is that theres so much more to it than that.

this is why b12 homers tick me off, they have zero logic & zero reasoning. do you honestly think that the conference with the least amount of teams & smallest blueprint is the most valuable????? do you really think wvu as an island can be successful longterm in the b12??????

get off your high horse

You dumbfuck! Ohio State, Nebraska and Wisconsin all have lucrative 3rd tier contracts with IMG and they don't share a dime of that revenue with conference members. In fact, Nebraska had the most lucrative contract ever when they signed in 2008, making $9M a year. tOSU then shattered that record when they signed in 2009, making $11M a year and do not share a dime with other conference members. Texas then shattered that record when they signed with ESPN. Schools have been selling their 3rd tier rights for years and DO NOT SHARE THAT MONEY WITH CONFERENCE MEMBERS. All I know is that IMG has signed WVU to a lucrative 3rd tier contract that is worth more than Michigan's 3rd tier rights. You should contact IMG and ask why that is.

LHN is going great. Sure, the 1st 2 years were growing pains, but now it's carried by some major networks and has tripled its viewership. But hey, I'm sure you'll try and spout your weak as fuck opinion some more.

 

[TexasExes98]

dont flatter yourself. their options were you or the acc and they chose you

so you are saying the b12 is safe long term cuz the sec decided to partner up with them in a bowl (the same conference that tried to raid 3 swc schools in the 90s, and took 2 b12 schools in the 2000s)

seriously???? thats your argument????

what happens when that "most powerful conference in the country" raids you??????

Hornsstampede just bitch slapped you with FACTS on why the Big 12 is not a dying conference. FACTS, not opinion. Yet, you still keep coming with your god awful opinion. No wonder nobody likes you on this board. You were a dumbfuck at ESPN, too.

 

[GamingGator]

not sure about busts but they were without a doubt the worst additions out of the whole conference shakeup thing.

i doubt the b12 will die but they took a beating. they are the 4th best conference right now.