Sixers and Celtics talking draft swap

[The Q]

Yup. If you get both the lakers pick next year and tre kings pick the year after there's a solid chance for a prospect better than fultz.

I doubt this deal happens unless Philly is willing to give up their half of the middle.

Boston should be in no hurry here. Even if they "love" Josh Jackson... they drafted a very similar player last season in Jaylon Brown.

Trader Danny is always listening to offers in Boston. But he's nobodies fool... why make a move here unless he's wowed? If Philly wants Fultz badly enough, they are the ones who are going to have to bend IMO.

pz

 

[flyerhawk]

I doubt this deal happens unless Philly is willing to give up their half of the middle.

Boston should be in no hurry here. Even if they "love" Josh Jackson... they drafted a very similar player last season in Jaylon Brown.

Trader Danny is always listening to offers in Boston. But he's nobodies fool... why make a move here unless he's wowed? If Philly wants Fultz badly enough, they are the ones who are going to have to bend IMO.

How do you define being "wowed"?

That's the problem. Defining what the market is for the No. 1 is difficult. Is it the #3 plus a a future 1st? Or is the #3 plus 2 future 1sts? Or 3? Or 10?

Who the heck knows? There are very few teams that can trade for that pick. So the market is pretty limited.

If Ainge is planning to move the pick anyone and grab George or Butler then trading down makes all the sense in the world. If Ainge is looking to keep this year's 1st but wants to get more future picks to trade for one of those two then it's a matter of what it would take to get either.

 

[tlance]

I disagree with you here.

The NBA is not the NFL. The NFL is about building a team of 53 guys. The NBA is about getting a superstar.

How much would a 19 year old Lebron James be worth right now? Or Kevin Durant?

Fulz may be a bust but the hit rate on No.1 picks is pretty high. It drops dramatically as you go down from there.

For the Sixers, Fulz makes the most sense of anyone in the draft. That doesn't mean he will be a super star. But he gives the team the best chance.

I agree with you 100%.

Most years. Not this one. Fultz is the top prospect in the draft, but this isn't last year where it was Simmons, Ingram and ??? Or 2 years ago where it was KAT alone at the top. To move up and get one of those guys, the price would be well worth it. I just don't see the seperation among the top prospects in this year's class to warrant giving up what will likely be another top 10, maybe top 5 pick.

Give me whoever falls to 3 and keep the extra picks.

 

[Sparhawk]

2017 #3, LAL 2018, and PHI 2021 with complicated protections.
Not too shabby...

 

[flyerhawk]

I agree with you 100%.

Most years. Not this one. Fultz is the top prospect in the draft, but this isn't last year where it was Simmons, Ingram and ??? Or 2 years ago where it was KAT alone at the top. To move up and get one of those guys, the price would be well worth it. I just don't see the seperation among the top prospects in this year's class to warrant giving up what will likely be another top 10, maybe top 5 pick.

Give me whoever falls to 3 and keep the extra picks.

If you go by Chad Ford's tiering system..

Ranking top NBA draft prospects by tiers

Fulz and Ball are the only top tier players in this draft. Only 8 players have been graded as tier 1 since they started doing the article in 2009.

Ben Simmons, KAT, Andrew Wigging, Joel Embiid, Jabari Parker, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis and John Wall.

Being a tier 1 rated player by this systems seems to be a pretty good indicator that the player is going to be an all star.

Now factor in that, for the Sixers, a guy like Fulz is almost a perfect fit. A versatile guard who can play both the 2 and 1 and is an effective perimeter shooter. Given that Simmons will often be the point for this team, that means they need somone can play away from the ball.

From a pure fit perspective, Fulz is easily the best choice for the Sixers.

So it comes down to cost. For me, if they give up only 2 firsts is is a no brainer. 3 becomes more problematic. More than 3 and I don't think it is worth it.

 

[flyerhawk]

I can live with this especially if there are some protections on the picks.

 

[Gman]

If Ainge is planning to move the pick anyone and grab George or Butler then trading down makes all the sense in the world. If Ainge is looking to keep this year's 1st but wants to get more future picks to trade for one of those two then it's a matter of what it would take to get either.

Why not keep the pick, grab Fultz, and go after George or Butler?... if the C's really want George or Butler? C's have a bunch of good assets and future picks to do both.

Of course... if the C's can land Gordon Heyward... they don't even need to make moves to get a Butler or George.

C's are in the catbird seat here.

 

[flyerhawk]

Why not keep the pick, grab Fultz, and go after George or Butler?... if the C's really want George or Butler? C's have a bunch of good assets and future picks to do both.

Of course... if the C's can land Gordon Heyward... they don't even need to make moves to get a Butler or George.

C's are in the catbird seat here.

I can only speculate as to what Ainge is thinking.

But the truth is that the Celtics have a pretty crowded backcourt already. They don't really need another guard.

So if the Celtics really want Jackson or Tatum, then why wouldn't they trade down to 3 and get some picks for it? That's pretty smart play.

The Sixers aren't going to give up the farm to move up 2 spots. If it gets too costly then they will walk away.

 

[Gman]

I can only speculate as to what Ainge is thinking.

But the truth is that the Celtics have a pretty crowded backcourt already. They don't really need another guard.

So if the Celtics really want Jackson or Tatum, then why wouldn't they trade down to 3 and get some picks for it? That's pretty smart play.

C's are crowded at SF, too... Crowder and Jaylon Brown.

The Sixers aren't going to give up the farm to move up 2 spots. If it gets too costly then they will walk away.

I think the C's would walk away if the offer isn't good enough, as well...

We'll see how things go down.

 

[The Q]

2017 #3, LAL 2018, and PHI 2021 with complicated protections.
Not too shabby...

That probably means it's protected for both teams.

Say top 3 protection for Philly but not if it's lower than say 10.

So Boston gets it if it's 4-10. SOmethif like that. Straight protections aren't that complicated.

 

[flyerhawk]

C's are crowded at SF, too... Crowder and Jaylon Brown.

I'm just relaying what the reports are saying. Rumors have it that the Celtics are high on Jackson. No idea if that is true or not. Entirely possible that they are going to trade the #3 to get PG or JB.

I think the C's would walk away if the offer isn't good enough, as well...

We'll see how things go down.

Of course the Celtics aren't going to do it unless they feel it makes sense. My point is that the Celtics and Sixers are both looking at this as an opportunity, not a deal that they need to make.

 

[bksballer89]

 

[The Q]

If you go by Chad Ford's tiering system..

Ranking top NBA draft prospects by tiers

Fulz and Ball are the only top tier players in this draft. Only 8 players have been graded as tier 1 since they started doing the article in 2009.

Ben Simmons, KAT, Andrew Wigging, Joel Embiid, Jabari Parker, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis and John Wall.

Being a tier 1 rated player by this systems seems to be a pretty good indicator that the player is going to be an all star.

Now factor in that, for the Sixers, a guy like Fulz is almost a perfect fit. A versatile guard who can play both the 2 and 1 and is an effective perimeter shooter. Given that Simmons will often be the point for this team, that means they need somone can play away from the ball.

From a pure fit perspective, Fulz is easily the best choice for the Sixers.

So it comes down to cost. For me, if they give up only 2 firsts is is a no brainer. 3 becomes more problematic. More than 3 and I don't think it is worth it.

It's a joke that Parker was included in that group. Dude couldn't guard 83% of the posters here.

 

[Kold]

I agree with you 100%.

Most years. Not this one. Fultz is the top prospect in the draft, but this isn't last year where it was Simmons, Ingram and ??? Or 2 years ago where it was KAT alone at the top. To move up and get one of those guys, the price would be well worth it. I just don't see the seperation among the top prospects in this year's class to warrant giving up what will likely be another top 10, maybe top 5 pick.

Give me whoever falls to 3 and keep the extra picks.

I was just about to post something like this. In the NFL, for the most part, we normally see a bunch of picks for the top pick for a guaranteed star. I don't quite know what Fultz will be, he could be a star, but at the moment, I do know that he's not Lebron, Anthony Davis, etc....or basically someone you look at, and know without a doubt that he will be a superstar

 

[Gman]

Of course the Celtics aren't going to do it unless they feel it makes sense. My point is that the Celtics and Sixers are both looking at this as an opportunity, not a deal that they need to make.

I disagree... this trade is no biggie for the C's, I believe they could take it or leave it... that is: this deal doesn't impact whether or not Boston can go after Butler or George, or go after Hayward.

However, if the Sixers believe Fultz is a "star", they need to do what it takes to secure his services.

Boston has the edge when it comes this potential deal. All they have to do is stand pat... and if the Sixers want Fultz badly enough, they'll sweeten the pot in order to get him.

And if the Sixers don't want to sweeten things... the C's get Fultz. Yay.

 

[tlance]

If you go by Chad Ford's tiering system..

Ranking top NBA draft prospects by tiers

Fulz and Ball are the only top tier players in this draft. Only 8 players have been graded as tier 1 since they started doing the article in 2009.

Ben Simmons, KAT, Andrew Wigging, Joel Embiid, Jabari Parker, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis and John Wall.

Being a tier 1 rated player by this systems seems to be a pretty good indicator that the player is going to be an all star.

Now factor in that, for the Sixers, a guy like Fulz is almost a perfect fit. A versatile guard who can play both the 2 and 1 and is an effective perimeter shooter. Given that Simmons will often be the point for this team, that means they need somone can play away from the ball.

From a pure fit perspective, Fulz is easily the best choice for the Sixers.

So it comes down to cost. For me, if they give up only 2 firsts is is a no brainer. 3 becomes more problematic. More than 3 and I don't think it is worth it.

I guess then my issue is with Ford's tiers.

I can honestly say that I have not seen enough of Fultz to make my own assessment. But, Lonzo Ball Ian no tier 1 prospect. Sorry. If only 8 players from the past 7 years make that list, Ball shouldn't be there. His presence also makes me question the inclusion of Fultz.

Both could end up being stars. But, most of the players listed above were can't miss players.

 

[The Q]

I wouldn't call Wiggins or Parker hits yet. Not busts, but not hits either.

 

[BigKen]

I've stayed away from this deal all day because there just seems to be something that is keeping it from going forward.

It may be a couple of things. Maybe the 6ers are pushing the 2021 1st Round pick and the Celtics aren't interested in waiting 5 years.

I'm sitting down in my man-cave watching movies. I switch to ESPN to see if this deal has been done and what do I see?? Los Angeles Lakers Throw Wrench into 76ers-Celtics Trade. No details, just a scroll across the bottom of the screen. So I come upstairs to my office to see what you all are saying..............NOTHING!!!!!!!!

I'm going back down to my cave and watch the Pats-Falcons Super Bowl Game..

Gggeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[mall3013]

 

[mall3013]

So this is an up to date proposal.. Celts get '17 3rd pick, next years pick (Lakers ), and a 2021 1st rounder protected pick? Of course, so many things change, but that is my understanding of this deal.